Tesla Model 3

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 19 2018 10:21am

It's not hidden costs it's options that cost money and at this point they dont sell cars without those options. I don't like that. But if it's a move that keeps Tesla alive while they work to bring out the $35000 car then it's the only option. Some people don't understand that. But at the same Time Elon needs to learn to be more accurate with his timelines.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Oct 20 2018 6:33am

Yeah thread has really derailed talking about Mars.

With everyone being so positive about Tesla/Musk, I feel its important to dig up the negative stuff that's out there, or maybe I am just an "asshole" :)

When I look at execs at publically listed companies all I tend to see in them is the greed, in that so many CEOs of publically listed companies have almost nothing else going in their head other than when they can legally dump their stock.
When the company lists publically they have to hold shares for at least a few years, and are expected to hold onto shares during the time they run the company.
Then it comes down an exit strategy to dump shares and not arouse suspicion from the rest of the shareholders.

Maybe Elon Musk is different, but his antics in trying to push up the stock price seem to be getting dubiously obvious. We all know about the "Funding Secured tweet" https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/27/1791 ... ding-tweet
But the most recent one that happened a day ago is this "FSD option" when buying the car.
Some argue the future based "FSD option" was on there for a stock price/sales-price bump but now its gone, and the upcharge for this future feature has not been refunded. It could be that they did this because they are afraid of more legal action from SEC.
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-ful ... oing-away/

Elon's Tweets are quite entertaining, and there are even tweets that basically say "yes it's about the money, but it's for good and not evil"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1050811017221963776
So it can be argued he just wants to make as much money as possible so he can go to Mars, which means he can never really make enough money because that is a very expensive thing to do.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is a good example of clever pump and dump in his stock, he has used the best lawyers to structure his shares into his OWN charity so he can legally dump his shares early and not arouse too much negative feedback.
Of course Zuckerberg can only "pump" up his stock via legal means such as telling the engineers to set the Facebook services serve more adverts and user "notifications" recommended friends or anything that might generate more user activity during a financial quarter. And this increased activity would be during the time that Zuckerberg has preset is share selling for charity plan would be, its all well timed.
Facebook insiders sold more stock than usual in the second quarter
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/26/faceboo ... arter.html
John Coffee, professor of law and director of the Center on Corporate Governance at Columbia Law School, said not all sales pursuant to Rule 10b5-1 are lawful, "although the exceptions are modest." He underlined Zuckerberg's estimated $80 billion net worth.

Selling Facebook stock wouldn't make much of a dent, especially when most of it is not going in his own pocket.

"It would not be worth the legal risk," Coffee said.

These plans can be used to sell for valid reasons such as for gifts to charity or taxes. However, Coffee noted typically tax-related selling spikes in the fourth quarter.

But some experts say these stock-selling plans have evolved into a legal way to "game" the system.

"People with good lawyers, and I presume Facebook executives can afford good lawyers, do a good job of gaming the 10b5-1 plans," said Cox, who specializes in securities law. "It was never supposed to be a license for systematic trading."
It's all about ways to sell the shares with loopholes because traditionally you're expected to hold your shares while you work at the company.
https://www.recode.net/2018/2/14/170128 ... iative-czi
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has started to accelerate his funding of the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, the philanthropic investment vehicle he set up with his wife, Priscilla Chan, in late 2015.
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Alternative electric cars are crushing Tesla sales in some countries apparently.
Image

Like I said in my other post where I grabbed a bunch of youtube reviews of all the other electric cars you can buy now or in a few months that easily popped up on google, the list is huge and Jaguar I-Pace is just the beginning but its already clearly starting a crush on Tesla
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=70349&start=500#p1415608

And apparently, there have been new surprise models from the competition popping up with larger battery packs in the specs than what was officially announced
https://insideevs.com/60-kwh-nissan-leaf-price/

Then there is news that Tesla just lost yet another top executive.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/tesl ... ?r=US&IR=T

Then there is Wallstreet wondering where Tesla will get $1billion from to service its debts
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/wall ... ue-2018-10

Maybe Elon's strategy will be to behave so erratically he gets kicked from the company and then he is morally right to dump his shares.
Elon Musk's extreme micromanagement has wasted time and money at Tesla, insiders say
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/tesla-c ... nager.html

Tesla CEO Elon Musk just introduced a 'lower-cost, mid-range' Model 3 via Twitter
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/18/tesla-c ... model.html
Apparently, you only get the cheap tax-credit based price if you "take delivery" of your car by the end of 2019? so thats like about 50 days?
The CNBC video tweet has the video advert free https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1053261240125046784

Tesla had all but pulled its free charging program but now its back.. I don't understand how it works as a "referral program" does that mean you have to get someone else to buy a Tesla to get free charging?
https://twitter.com/Teslarati/status/10 ... 5938068480
^Seems like Tesla is suddenly doing this because they are having trouble with sales?


Apparently, Tesla has the green light to issue new securities, if it wanted to. As far as I understand it, this doesn't mean they will, they justed wanted to be sure they could due to the issues that came from the "funding secured" tweet.
https://twitter.com/YahooFinance/status ... 1679674370
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Apparently, some claim there is a global ramp-up of large insurers tripling the cost to ensure a Tesla compared to other cars.
https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-f ... riples-its
Last month, the insurer notified Jones that his policy – due for expiry in August 2019 – would be terminated by December this year. The former executive had clocked up 994 kilometres (618 miles) in two years, with no accidents or claims on his policy.

Axa offered him a new policy at HK$12,300 per annum, effectively tripling his annual payment. Additionally, the insurer raised the policy’s excess – the top-up that the car owner needs to make to qualify for a compensation – to HK$130,000, from HK$8,000.

“If I had known that the insurance would become so expensive, I would not have bought my Tesla in 2016,” Jones said. “Now the annual premium is three times the cost and the vehicle excess is 20 times as much

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This article is from last month, but its creates a pretty doomish point of view that I think is pretty solid, it paywalls after the first page, but the first page is all you need https://seekingalpha.com/article/420558 ... tting-zero
This is its summary
  • The Model 3 has not shown an ability to generate demand beyond its approximately 420K total current reservations.
  • Once this backlog is worked through, Tesla won't be able to sustain profitability and cash generation.
  • Once the hype dies off, reality will set in, and current financials will dictate the share price, rather than product and technology hype.
  • Even assuming optimistic free cash flow estimates, Tesla stock gets cut down by more than 90%.
  • The equity, in my opinion, is worth zero.
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*ADD*
When I added the Hyundai Kona Electric on my other big list of competitive EVs that easily show up on youtube, post below,
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=70349&start=500#p1415608
I figured the Kona EV wasn't at all "cool" compared to a Tesla to actually drive, or wasn't really going to be that well priced.
But it seems to be both, its $30,000 after tax credits in the USA and it has comparable range to the Tesla at 258miles. Apparently, this is the kind of range you typically pay double the money for.
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/278 ... ax-credits

Checking out the reviews which are just flooding on youtube now, they seem to love the car. This video came out yesterday.
https://youtu.be/H6ukD-otTFA


So to me, it looks like these bombs of competition are gearing up as the doomsayers claim. So maybe potential customers like geckocycles situation below would be tempted by the Kona electric.
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geckocycles wrote:
Oct 19 2018 7:41am
Sadly we canceled our model 3 order. We waited for 2 years to get our $38000 car. Then our number finally came up and it was going to cost us close to $60000 if you really wanted to drive it.The tesla was going to cost us $760/mo with $10K down. We got our $1000 back in 2 days! Sad that we waited for 2 years and put up with all the delays for nothing.
We leased the I3 4 years ago but after we moved found that it didn't have the range needed anymore, so it sat for a year and was turned in with only 7000 miles on it.
They put in a charge station at my wifes work so now the I3 was being considered again. We bought a used BMW certified one with 11000 miles on it for $17300 with extended warranty.

For me the Tesla was more practical for lots of reasons but the final hidden costs were not.
Wow.
Yeah, I have only been looking at the more negative news lately which tends to come up on twitter but it seems like there are a lot of things like the "FSD" option in the purchase options was just tactics to string people into a more expensive purchase.
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-ful ... oing-away/
^, Of course, insideevs is a very pro-tesla website but you can read in-between the lines that this is dubious activity.
Last edited by TheBeastie on Oct 21 2018 1:19am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Oct 20 2018 2:18pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Oct 20 2018 6:33am
Alternative electric cars are crushing Tesla sales in some countries apparently.
So Tesla is selling ~140 cars in the first half of October, and the i-Pace has sold ~200, in Norway? And that's "crushing?" You are having to cherrypick REALLY hard to find bad stuff to say about sales.

Meanwhile, the Tesla Model 3, Model S and Model X are the #1, #3 and #5 best selling pluggable cars in the US. If you go with just EV's, they are #1, #2 and #4.

The Tesla Model 3 is the #4 selling car in the US. Period. Selling more than the Toyota Corolla, Nissan Sentra, Ford Fusion or Nissan Altima.

Worldwide the Model 3 is the #1 sold EV. Worldwide the S and X are 6th and 7th respectively.

But I guess those numbers don't help the shorts any, do they.
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 21 2018 12:37am

Top 1 2 and 3 best selling BEVs in the US are Tesla.

Beastie they have more pre-orders now and the number is growing. They haven't even started to advertise yet.

Your long ass post is all Fake news lol.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ohbse » Oct 24 2018 7:21pm

Well, earnings are out and Q&A session over - very interesting indeed.

Analyst estimates averaged a ~$180 million loss - reality was 320 million profit. ZEV credits comprised only ~50million of that, so would have made a substantial profit regardless. gross margin on model 3 improved beyond expectations to over 20%, total automotive gross margin of 25%

Expectation is will be profitable for every quarter going forward, focused on paying down debt burden NOT refinancing, reducing exposure to FUD and artificial drama influencing stock price

Model Y prototype approved into production, Solar roof hitting mass production early next year, energy products continuing to ramp in both quantity and gross margin. Lots and lots of good news on all fronts.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Oct 24 2018 10:15pm

geckocycles wrote:
Oct 19 2018 7:41am
Sadly we canceled our model 3 order. We waited for 2 years to get our $38000 car. Then our number finally came up and it was going to cost us close to $60000 if you really wanted to drive it.The tesla was going to cost us $760/mo with $10K down. We got our $1000 back in 2 days! Sad that we waited for 2 years and put up with all the delays for nothing.
We leased the I3 4 years ago but after we moved found that it didn't have the range needed anymore, so it sat for a year and was turned in with only 7000 miles on it.
They put in a charge station at my wifes work so now the I3 was being considered again. We bought a used BMW certified one with 11000 miles on it for $17300 with extended warranty.

For me the Tesla was more practical for lots of reasons but the final hidden costs were not.
Where is the $60k number from ? I am looking at my reservation right now, here is what I am seeing...
tesla.jpeg
And to go over $60K before incentives on you have to pick the dual-motor performance one.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Oct 24 2018 10:21pm

Was a pretty good article here, goes over the craziness of Elon and Tesla and touches on more of the events that less of the media likes to talk about.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/e ... ncna923611
Probably the best bit that describes the essence of this article
Customers are angry because so many Model 3s are damaged on delivery or have issues soon after, yet third-party repair shops say they could do the repairs more quickly if only they could get the parts from Tesla in a timely manner.

When you consider Musk and Tesla’s net worth, Musk got off easy with his SEC settlement. But it seems only a matter of time before Tesla starts to really suffer as a result of its mad genius CEO’s mismanagement. The SEC is reportedly still looking into Tesla’s production output over more potential false claims, while the Department of Justice is still investigating the $420 tweet — the SEC settled civil charges against Musk, but the DOJ could still bring criminal charges.
I still think he's doing all the craziness deliberately so he can get kicked from his own company and have the moral right to sell all his shares, as its been said repeatedly, its all about building a super-massive cash pile to be able to get to Mars which couldn't be a more expensive thing to do..

So apparently they made "$311.5 million net income" for the quarter, but they have also been and I quote "Tesla's had been burning cash at a rate of almost $1 billion per quarter"
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/24/tesla-e ... -2018.html

Says they made 53,239 Model 3's for the quarter.
But 80,000 cars for all models all up for the quarter. Lets remove the $50m in the money coming in via ZEV carbon emissions subsidy credits etc and assume the rest was all from making cars.
So looking at it all roughly, $281,000,000 / 80,000_cars = $3,512.5 per car.
Which is remarkable considering the fact that mass-produced cars make as little as $500 a car and ideally would be $1,000.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-do ... ke-per-car
These kinds of numbers have been done over and over again on large established car makers in the auto-industry.
but the bottom line is that for each car sold in that 12 month period, Toyota made a profit of around 55,800 Yen (430 GBP / 690 USD)
https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-final ... eep-doing/
Remarkable bit from this article.. Tesla coming LAST IN RELIABILITY metrics.. It really seems like the mainstream media has decided "It's OK to be truthful on Tesla", seems like just a month ago this was pure blasphemy!
Moreover, Tesla has continued to struggle with quality control. Coincidentally, just released as well are the latest reliability rankings from Consumer Reports, showing the automaker slipping to 29th place out of 29—mostly due to issues with the Model S. The Model 3, which is less complex, has “average” reliability.

....
The car is also an olive branch to customers who placed a $1,000 deposit in 2016, in hope of securing a cheap Tesla. Although this car isn’t what Musk promised, it will likely mean US customers can get a cheap-ish car before the end of 2018, after which the federal tax credit for EVs of $7,500 starts to phase out for Tesla.
Saw this video first on Twitter and a lot of people attacked it as being fake and the people behind it were Tesla/Musk haters, theres interesting stories like this every week but only some are more verifiable than others.
https://youtu.be/joqjs0SXN0k


But its been verified through and through to be real for all the major news sites.
The funny thing most of them didn't bother to report was the fact when the guy first tried to complain about it, he was viciously attacked as being nothing but a Tesla/Musk hater
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Image
Last edited by TheBeastie on Oct 25 2018 1:00am, edited 9 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles range https://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear https://goo.gl/ZhFFot
https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 24 2018 11:10pm

Lmfao Elon doesn't want to leave Tesla. He has no need for the money. If all he wanted was money he would have retied with his 140 million or what ever it was when he sold paypal. He is Tesla to say Tesla needs to get rid of him as a CEO is like saying they need to hang them selves and quit selling cars and energy solutions.

As for "Burning though cash" its call growth or investing. Its not like its all being spent on things that are useless its all being used to grow the company. For Every billion they USE now will make them 10s of billions soon enough!

Profitable is profitable thats that!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Oct 24 2018 11:22pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Oct 24 2018 11:10pm
Lmfao Elon doesn't want to leave Tesla. He has no need for the money. If all he wanted was money he would have retied with his 140 million or what ever it was when he sold paypal. He is Tesla to say Tesla needs to get rid of him as a CEO is like saying they need to hang them selves and quit selling cars and energy solutions.

As for "Burning though cash" its call growth or investing. Its not like its all being spent on things that are useless its all being used to grow the company. For Every billion they USE now will make them 10s of billions soon enough!

Profitable is profitable thats that!
+1

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Alan B » Oct 24 2018 11:57pm

Lots of Tesla 3 teardowns now seem to show that the motor, battery and electronics are good but the car itself is a near disaster. Too many parts, too many different types of fastener, not made to be manufactured or serviced, the list goes on and on. Clearly they rushed and messed this up. Too bad, by the time this gets addressed the competition will have passed the big T. We had hoped for so much more.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 25 2018 12:59am

Alan B wrote:
Oct 24 2018 11:57pm
Lots of Tesla 3 teardowns now seem to show that the motor, battery and electronics are good but the car itself is a near disaster. Too many parts, too many different types of fastener, not made to be manufactured or serviced, the list goes on and on. Clearly they rushed and messed this up. Too bad, by the time this gets addressed the competition will have passed the big T. We had hoped for so much more.
Where the hell are you getting this info from?

The Germans who took the model 3 apart said the 100% exact opposite.

Seems like you like many others fell for the FAKE NEWs
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Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Oct 25 2018 10:57am

Alan B wrote:
Oct 24 2018 11:57pm
Lots of Tesla 3 teardowns now seem to show that the motor, battery and electronics are good but the car itself is a near disaster. Too many parts, too many different types of fastener, not made to be manufactured or serviced, the list goes on and on. Clearly they rushed and messed this up. Too bad, by the time this gets addressed the competition will have passed the big T. We had hoped for so much more.
Love it.

Five years ago the shorts were saying "Tesla will NEVER catch up with the competition! They're pathetic!" Now they are saying "Tesla will NEVER be able to stay ahead of the competition! They're pathetic!" I predict that in five years they will be saying "Tesla will NEVER be able to lead the market for another ten years! They're pathetic!"
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Oct 25 2018 2:32pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Oct 25 2018 12:59am
Alan B wrote:
Oct 24 2018 11:57pm
Lots of Tesla 3 teardowns now seem to show that the motor, battery and electronics are good but the car itself is a near disaster. Too many parts, too many different types of fastener, not made to be manufactured or serviced, the list goes on and on. Clearly they rushed and messed this up. Too bad, by the time this gets addressed the competition will have passed the big T. We had hoped for so much more.
Where the hell are you getting this info from?

The Germans who took the model 3 apart said the 100% exact opposite.

Seems like you like many others fell for the FAKE NEWs
+1

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Oct 25 2018 2:33pm

billvon wrote:
Oct 25 2018 10:57am
Alan B wrote:
Oct 24 2018 11:57pm
Lots of Tesla 3 teardowns now seem to show that the motor, battery and electronics are good but the car itself is a near disaster. Too many parts, too many different types of fastener, not made to be manufactured or serviced, the list goes on and on. Clearly they rushed and messed this up. Too bad, by the time this gets addressed the competition will have passed the big T. We had hoped for so much more.
Love it.

Five years ago the shorts were saying "Tesla will NEVER catch up with the competition! They're pathetic!" Now they are saying "Tesla will NEVER be able to stay ahead of the competition! They're pathetic!" I predict that in five years they will be saying "Tesla will NEVER be able to lead the market for another ten years! They're pathetic!"
:lol:

+1

Btw, same things were/are being said about SpaceX...

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 25 2018 6:26pm

cricketo wrote:
Oct 25 2018 2:33pm
billvon wrote:
Oct 25 2018 10:57am
Alan B wrote:
Oct 24 2018 11:57pm
Lots of Tesla 3 teardowns now seem to show that the motor, battery and electronics are good but the car itself is a near disaster. Too many parts, too many different types of fastener, not made to be manufactured or serviced, the list goes on and on. Clearly they rushed and messed this up. Too bad, by the time this gets addressed the competition will have passed the big T. We had hoped for so much more.
Love it.

Five years ago the shorts were saying "Tesla will NEVER catch up with the competition! They're pathetic!" Now they are saying "Tesla will NEVER be able to stay ahead of the competition! They're pathetic!" I predict that in five years they will be saying "Tesla will NEVER be able to lead the market for another ten years! They're pathetic!"
:lol:

+1

Btw, same things were/are being said about SpaceX...
+2
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by neptronix » Oct 25 2018 6:53pm

Look at their Q3 revenue.

I was so confident they'd turn a profit that i put $1500 into their stock after everyone freaked out about Elon "smoking weed" and the stock plummetted.

You can't bust your ass and turn out a record number of sales and NOT have an earnings report like that.
Elon didn't even inhale. So funny how people can get tossed in a tizzy about this company and misinvest.

The amount of misinformation about this company is staggering. Yeah, Elon is a bit of a nut, but they're pumping out cars and people love the company and their cars are wildly desirable - all flaws aside.

I would hung on to my $220-$230 priced Tesla stock if i felt better about the direction the stock market was going, but i took a profit on that stack today.

Actually the one thing that worries me about Tesla is the loss of the federal tax credit. I wonder if they can survive the next recession and a loss of financial competitiveness at the same time. We'll see.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by nicobie » Oct 26 2018 1:36pm

neptronix wrote:
Oct 25 2018 6:53pm


Actually the one thing that worries me about Tesla is the loss of the federal tax credit. I wonder if they can survive the next recession and a loss of financial competitiveness at the same time. We'll see.

My thoughts exactly. Seeing as how Trump wants everything to run on coal, he wants to end the credits for all electric cars. The other manufacturers will be running into the same problem sooner or later.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by neptronix » Oct 26 2018 2:02pm

nicobie wrote:
Oct 26 2018 1:36pm
My thoughts exactly. Seeing as how Trump wants everything to run on coal, he wants to end the credits for all electric cars. The other manufacturers will be running into the same problem sooner or later.
Well, there is only one way to properly roll coal..
coal-rolling.jpg
coal-rolling.jpg (236.36 KiB) Viewed 594 times
Sorry, i couldn't resist :mrgreen:

But really, before alternative energy takes over the world, electric cars are a great way to efficiently expend the remaining fossil fuels.
If you want the coal industry to stay alive, give it more business. Put the coal burning stations in the middle of nowhere and the cleaner technologies in areas where a majority of people live.

Subsidize the cars and subsidize the building of charging stations around these rural coal burning areas so that an electric car has a path through the boonies and into more interesting places. Oh, the environmentalists will still hate it, but it makes absolute sense from a business perspective.
Most of those same environmentalists still drive gasoline powered vehicles like the rest of us, so rural coal charging mixed with nat gas + nuclear + solar + wind charging in the cities is actually a net positive since most of the mileage happens in the city.

But nobody is interested in a middle ground solution.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 26 2018 8:28pm

neptronix wrote:
Oct 26 2018 2:02pm

Subsidize the cars and subsidize the building of charging stations around these rural coal burning areas so that an electric car has a path through the boonies and into more interesting places. Oh, the environmentalists will still hate it, but it makes absolute sense from a business perspective.
Most of those same environmentalists still drive gasoline powered vehicles like the rest of us, so rural coal charging mixed with nat gas + nuclear + solar + wind charging in the cities is actually a net positive since most of the mileage happens in the city.

But nobody is interested in a middle ground solution.
It doesn't matter what part of the earth you put a coal power station in. It will still cause an equal amount of damage. Coal is dead. Its now cheaper to get new energy from Solar so there is 0 reason to build new coal power plants.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Oct 26 2018 11:19pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Oct 26 2018 8:28pm
...... Its now cheaper to get new energy from Solar so there is 0 reason to build new coal power plants.
Costs are very debateable, especially when you add in the cost of covering supply for the 18 or so hours of every day that solar produces nothing , even in the suniest of places. (Australia !)
Fossil fuels are a very good and cheap means of maintaining that 24 hr supply, and filling in on those days that the sun doesnt want to play......or in those regeons where there is no useful sun for long parts of the year.
So far, those countries that have invested heavily in Solar and Wind, have found that they need to maintain a similar level of fossil fueled generation to ensure continuity of supply.
Maybe i should just have said....
.....go and tell that to China, Germany, India, Africa, etc, etc, ..
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 26 2018 11:33pm

Hillhater wrote:
Oct 26 2018 11:19pm

.....go and tell that to China, Germany, India, Africa, etc, etc, ..
Actually they are reducing their fossil fuel dependency. Some still use peaker plants but as this all ramps up its changing fast.

https://energypost.eu/chinas-green-ener ... l-imports/
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RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Oct 27 2018 12:21am

259 GW of new coal plants (approx 400 plants) under construction in China.
https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/1076 ... r-again/en
40+ in Japan
100 +in India
Etc..
Accurate numbers are wooly at best but a Total of 1600 world wide is often reported
.... Hardly a reduction in coal dependancy.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 27 2018 1:46am

Hillhater wrote:
Oct 27 2018 12:21am
259 GW of new coal plants (approx 400 plants) under construction in China.
https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/1076 ... r-again/en
40+ in Japan
100 +in India
Etc..
Accurate numbers are wooly at best but a Total of 1600 world wide is often reported
.... Hardly a reduction in coal dependancy.
When comparing to then needs with and without the additional energy requirements you can see the whole picture.


Also things are changing faster then you realize.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2017/1 ... er-plants/
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Oct 27 2018 5:41am

Arlo1 wrote:
Oct 27 2018 1:46am
Also things are changing faster then you realize.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2017/1 ... er-plants/
And maybe faster than you think...since that was a 2017 article !...
And as i guess you did not read the 2018 article i posted above....
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chin ... dup-2018-9
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Oct 27 2018 10:40am

Hillhater wrote:
Oct 27 2018 5:41am
Arlo1 wrote:
Oct 27 2018 1:46am
Also things are changing faster then you realize.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2017/1 ... er-plants/
And maybe faster than you think...since that was a 2017 article !...
And as i guess you did not read the 2018 article i posted above....
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chin ... dup-2018-9
Actually I did and although they might still be building new coal plants many have been canceled and some are to replace others that are shut down. China is a world leader in solar and it won't be long until they shut down all coal power plants. If you look at the total number of coal power plants and compare it to the total amount of energy they are using and then look at solar you will see a lot more energy is coming from solar.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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