Tesla Model 3

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cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Dec 12 2018 5:25pm

Hillhater wrote:
Dec 12 2018 4:06pm
There is a key difference between "burst" rate and Production rate.
Also everyone knows Musk is a liar and a charlatan, nothing he says is true.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 15 2018 12:59am

The Bloomberg estimates are not at all accurate.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 15 2018 1:00am

cricketo wrote:
Dec 12 2018 5:25pm
Hillhater wrote:
Dec 12 2018 4:06pm
There is a key difference between "burst" rate and Production rate.
Also everyone knows Musk is a liar and a charlatan, nothing he says is true.
Yes the cars never went 0-60 as fast as he said. The price is always wrong. Everyone hates him really... :roll:
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
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cricketo   1 kW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Dec 15 2018 3:20am

Arlo1 wrote:
Dec 15 2018 1:00am

Yes the cars never went 0-60 as fast as he said. The price is always wrong. Everyone hates him really... :roll:
Yep! And the car he supposedly launched to Mars never made it there! :mrgreen:

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Ianhill » Dec 15 2018 8:58am

Tesla is ahead of the game in every department but the body structures complexity and that's from munroe, after they got one and tore it down they where amazed with its general engineering even though they was dying to hate on it.

I don't think it's the car that will revolutionise the car industry but it's a step in the right direction just need cheaper emulation and we are away Kia has a presence now so the time has come I believe where in the next few years a big game changer will come along from some manufacturer.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Dec 15 2018 11:55am

Arlo1 wrote:
Dec 15 2018 1:00am
Yes the cars never went 0-60 as fast as he said. The price is always wrong. Everyone hates him really...
And he hasn't actually built any cars. And his boosters can't really land and be reused. It's all a conspiracy of lies! I know that's true because a Youtube video said so.
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 18 2018 3:19am

I have seen a few quite scary videos on social media of Model 3 owners moving very slowing stuck in grid-locked traffic and the car suddenly accelerate out of control bulldozering the car in front of them, quite scary stuff.
Haven't got the links handy, but it may help explain this fire.
I probably wont bother providing links for every single little thing anymore, my mega linking was a mere hope that folks would try to learn to google and browse the internet more because I find it truly remarkable how much folks are willing to argue about stuff for even hours on the internet via social media when the answer is seconds away via internet search.

This owner's Tesla apparently massively accelerated while pulling into the garage, I don't know if it was in auto-pilot etc or not.
But the acceleration was so massive that it seriously damaged the basic integrity of the battery/car-body.

This crash happened last year but the fire-department only recently released this video.

You can see the initial fire of the garage was being put out in clear daylight hours, but it's pitch-dark when they are fighting the fire of the Tesla vehicle, this was a many hour fire battle.

One of the more interesting things to note is that after the fire-men thought it was all over and placed the Tesla on the flat-bed truck to take it away, it then burst into flames again (at the 3minute mark) and apparently only needed a constant water-hosing of about 20 minutes for the second round.
https://youtu.be/3eFM9JJMH_0

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Dec 18 2018 12:28pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 18 2018 3:19am
This owner's Tesla apparently massively accelerated while pulling into the garage, I don't know if it was in auto-pilot etc or not. But the acceleration was so massive that it seriously damaged the basic integrity of the battery/car-body.
This reminds me of the Toyota "unintended acceleration" scare of 2009. The story went that there was a software bug that meant that the harder you pushed on the brake, the faster the car went. The story went viral, with Youtube videos claiming to show it happening, along with ways to shut down the engine quickly if it happened. Big headlines led to lawsuits and big settlements.

Then the NTSB got involved and started looking at the data from the car's computer (which nowadays saves data before a crash, like a flight recorder.) In almost every case of "unintended acceleration," the computer showed that the accelerator was floored and the brake was never touched. Some cases were the floor mat moving and trapping the pedal, but in zero cases was there a brake failure. Had the driver pressed on the brake the car would have stopped.

https://www.manufacturing.net/blog/2016 ... -it-seemed
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Dec 19 2018 9:04am

Yep, most likely driver error. An ICE suddenly accelerating into the back of another car in traffic is a common occurrence caused by incompetence.

Last research I saw showed BEVs were half as likely to catch fire after a crash as ICE, but a li-ion battery fire is a different, and challenging beast for sure.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Dec 19 2018 12:02pm

Punx0r wrote:
Dec 19 2018 9:04am
Yep, most likely driver error. An ICE suddenly accelerating into the back of another car in traffic is a common occurrence caused by incompetence.
Agreed.

And lest anyone think "no one could be that dumb" we have this Tesla owner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPg2Mi2roI
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Dec 20 2018 10:53am

billvon wrote:
Dec 19 2018 12:02pm
Agreed.

And lest anyone think "no one could be that dumb" we have this Tesla owner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPg2Mi2roI
When I saw this video, I thought it was staged. But then certain human traits shouldn't be underestimated... and thought of HH :)

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Alan B » Dec 20 2018 7:41pm

billvon wrote:
Dec 18 2018 12:28pm
TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 18 2018 3:19am
This owner's Tesla apparently massively accelerated while pulling into the garage, I don't know if it was in auto-pilot etc or not. But the acceleration was so massive that it seriously damaged the basic integrity of the battery/car-body.
This reminds me of the Toyota "unintended acceleration" scare of 2009. The story went that there was a software bug that meant that the harder you pushed on the brake, the faster the car went. The story went viral, with Youtube videos claiming to show it happening, along with ways to shut down the engine quickly if it happened. Big headlines led to lawsuits and big settlements.

Then the NTSB got involved and started looking at the data from the car's computer (which nowadays saves data before a crash, like a flight recorder.) In almost every case of "unintended acceleration," the computer showed that the accelerator was floored and the brake was never touched. Some cases were the floor mat moving and trapping the pedal, but in zero cases was there a brake failure. Had the driver pressed on the brake the car would have stopped.

https://www.manufacturing.net/blog/2016 ... -it-seemed
I heard from an engineer that a more thorough analysis showed the real time software controls had (in certain circumstances) some serious priority problems (not unlike the lunar lander controlsj failure), and that the controls were in fact at fault.. They did a good job of burying the final analysis. Unfortunately the truth doesn't always see daylight. And some stories were faked. But some of the crashes were real.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 20 2018 9:17pm

Tesla has some VERY good redundancy for their GO peddle to the point its more or less impossible to make it fail to WOT.

I have a video of my brother talking about doing the same thing on one of my electric motorcycles.

Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Dec 20 2018 10:38pm

Alan B wrote:
Dec 20 2018 7:41pm
I heard from an engineer that a more thorough analysis showed the real time software controls had (in certain circumstances) some serious priority problems (not unlike the lunar lander controlsj failure), and that the controls were in fact at fault.. They did a good job of burying the final analysis. Unfortunately the truth doesn't always see daylight. And some stories were faked. But some of the crashes were real.
So an engineer goes around telling people about a conspiracy (with injury/death implications) his employer is engaged in, but doesn't blow the whistle ? I always enjoy hearing these stories. One engineer I know used to work at NG, developing real-time battle communication systems. He claimed they had serious flows in the system that could have caused outages... oh well :)

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 23 2018 12:07am

cricketo wrote:
Dec 20 2018 10:53am
billvon wrote:
Dec 19 2018 12:02pm
Agreed.

And lest anyone think "no one could be that dumb" we have this Tesla owner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPg2Mi2roI
When I saw this video, I thought it was staged. But then certain human traits shouldn't be underestimated... and thought of HH :)
This is fake, I been checking out more common videos people watch on Youtube and most of them are fake and folks don't realize it.
The sad problem is when something truly unbelievable that might happen that might have a good lesson behind it then these videos are deemed fake, so its all upside down.

The war for youtube hits/views is vicious.

Just check out this guys Youtube channel where he attacks other Youtube channels because they are just ripping off other peoples YT channels etc for hits.. The WAR for youtube views is as vicious as ever
https://youtu.be/kTxF73wrsWU



This is actually my problem with the blocking rules under "fake news" because so much media is in some way fake (for me all I have to do is look at the promises of Renewables!) and its only going to get worse, so in my opinion, people need to be exposed to epic quality good fake news, because there so no other way to get around it. These simple fake youtube videos like someone trying to fill their Tesla with petroleum fuel show how much work is going to be ahead of them for the general public.

The new habit of people "thinking for themselves" needs to be developed.
I was talking to a semi-reformed-feminist the other week and she was telling me how evil Trump is for putting sanctions on Iran's regime for their pursuit of a right to nuclear weapons etc.

I used her strong feminist believes against her, and said that while I am sure most Iranians are lovely people, obviously the Iran regime is quite unreasonable for jailing women for years for merely taking off their hijabs in public for mere seconds? And that may be considering such unreasonable behaviour towards woman then maybe the regime shouldn't be entitled to nuclear bombs?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 46076.html
I was actually quite shocked how quickly she went all quiet and complete caved in, I could see it in her eyes I had turned her brain inside out.
I realized all she now wanted to do was refer to local ABC news / (CNN local equivalent) on EXACTLY what or HOW to think, instead of just thinking for her self. In this day and age because we have so much access to electronic media people really appear to be viciously addicted on an epic level on looking to narrow choices of media on exactly what and how to think, on a level that even Hitler could only have dreamed of.
Image
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Youtube Fanboi with almost 1 million subscribers had 45k down for a Roadster. Gets 50+ referrals, so now qualifies for a free Founder series. Calls Tesla to ask for a refund. 4 hours later, Tesla takes down his referral page.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlrwld58Lpw



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I first really started posting negative news about Tesla on this thread I did it almost entirely against my will (believe it or not), but I just felt it was the right thing to do. I have no idea if folks hate/like me anymore on this forum than before for it..

Anyway, just hours ago this post came up. There is just so much negative news out there on Tesla, but how serious/interesting you find it is up to you.
Guy gets his Tesla Model 3, then wraps itself around a telephone pole, but the airbags NEVER DEPLOYED, goes on the Tesla club website to clomplain.. there are photos in his post.. I dont care what excuses might be, if I hit a street pole hard enough to split it and write-off my car then I would want airbags deployed as its final send off.

None of the airbags deployed, not one. How can a front end collision of this magnitude not result in any airbags deploying.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ve.138600/
Image

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Seems like these Tesla fires turn into real battles.
In this most recent one the chief fireman complains they been waiting for it to stop smouldering for 6 hours but looks like they are going to have to be here all night.
https://twitter.com/AmandaABC7/status/1 ... 4142810112
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should of posted these when I first saw them because I have lost most of them, I haven't been posting much on ES lately..
I seen a bunch of these posted on video Twitter now, Twitter really seems to be taking over YT when it comes to short videos.
It appears the Tesla autopilot got confused because there was a car sitting on only half of the lane infront of the Tesla?
https://twitter.com/wyatt_privilege/sta ... 3036369920
Last edited by TheBeastie on Dec 23 2018 1:04am, edited 7 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
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Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Dec 23 2018 12:27am

TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 23 2018 12:07am
Guy gets his Tesla Model 3, then wraps itself around a telephone pole, but the airbags NEVER DEPLOYED, goes on the Tesla club website to clomplain.. there are photos in his post..

None of the airbags deployed, not one. How can a front end collision of this magnitude not result in any airbags deploying.
Because they don't deploy unless the deceleration is dangerously high. This guy passed out, his car went into a telephone pole - and he was fine. No injuries other than a sore chest from his seatbelt and from the burst appendix (which is what caused him to pass out in the first place.) If he hadn't disabled emergency braking, then the car likely slowed itself down significantly before impact, to the point where the airbags weren't needed. Sounds like the car did exactly what it was designed to do.

From the same thread:
===============
My father in law fell asleep at the wheel of his Explorer on I-80 doing 75 MPH with cruise on, and drifted off the highway. He woke up after hitting a light pole and fortunately remained composed enough to not swerve but rather brake straight and true. The pole ripped through the entire engine compartment between the block and inner fender before the light pole sheer bolts gave way and flipped the pole over his roof. He's very fortunate. The airbags didn't ignite, and in later discussions with his insurance and Ford, it was determined they shouldn't have. Wrong circumstances.
==============
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 29 2018 7:56am

Came across this "insurance auction write-off cars junkyard site", the URL already has Tesla in there for write-off Tesla's, looks like there are lots of junked Tesla's to bid on.

I remember Elon Musk giving a speech about how all Tesla batteries will be taken back and recycled, I was dubious.. It seems clear that most will end up in junkyards and bid on and reused on anything conceivably possible and then randomly dumped by its second-hand owner anywhere they find it convenient to do so.

The interesting thing I have noticed is some of these Tesla's look like they are in remarkably good condition but received some level of damage and won't "Turn On" any more. Most have "0 Miles" on them because they can't turn the car on to see the odometer.

Some have pre-bids of only "Current Bid: $75". So the dream of cheap cells from recked EVs now that mass-produced Tesla Model 3's are out there might come true.
https://www.iaai.com/Search?Keyword=tesla+model+3

I am seeing more and more news/claims that insurance costs on Tesla's are going through the roof in costs, because repairs take a long time and are costly, and possibly Tesla EVs attract bad drivers, apparently.
I saw one guy claim on social-media he has driven his 17th Tesla due to repairs and replacement-loaner-Tesla's etc.

https://vis.iaai.com/resizer?imageKeys= ... height=480
Image

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On a seperate M3 subject..

This is probably the most objective/impartial/unbiased review of a Tesla Model 3 delivery I think I will ever see.
He suffered all the most common claimed problems on initial negative experience Tesla M3 deliveries, that being a fair amount of scratches on the car, paint defects/bubbles, and a mild/modest? amount of gapping (except maybe the window-roof gap, that looks kind of bad), and also some mystery miles on the car (21miles), but this was listed on the delivery paperwork.. Maybe the miles are from moving the EV around parking lots due to lack of warehouse space and zero "traditional sales yard space".

The other interesting thing I have seen on social media claims about Tesla 3 is that some of their more dodgy delivery people will tell you they will be at your home at 4pm to deliver the car, but instead show up at night at 6pm knock on your door and insist for you to sign off on the paperwork to fully "accept" the car before letting you actually see it.
They also (apparently) deliberately park the car on the street AWAY from the closest street lights as possible so that its harder to see if there are any physically visual problems with your Tesla.

Everything That's Wrong With My Tesla Model 3 - Quality Problems
https://youtu.be/FSLTNjGI8hw
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 29 2018 12:09pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 29 2018 7:56am
Came across this "insurance auction write-off cars junkyard site", the URL already has Tesla in there for write-off Tesla's, looks like there are lots of junked Tesla's to bid on.

I remember Elon Musk giving a speech about how all Tesla batteries will be taken back and recycled, I was dubious.. It seems clear that most will end up in junkyards and bid on and reused on anything conceivably possible and then randomly dumped by its second-hand owner anywhere they find it convenient to do so.
When a Car gets in an accident its still owned by someone. That puts a price tag on it. Just because a car got in a crash does not obligate Tesla to buy the car back to recycle the battery.

The insurance company needs to get what ever they can out of it to recoup some costs to the whole ordeal.

I think its great there is getting to be a lot of them at the wreckers.
There is now more model 3 Tesla's in existence then Model S's This is a lot of cars and there will be a lot of crashed cars just like the rest. It seems someone who can afford a expensive sedan is not likely to be a good driver. Those who love motorsports likely spent all their money on racecar stuff ;)
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 29 2018 12:13pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 29 2018 7:56am


Everything That's Wrong With My Tesla Model 3 - Quality Problems
https://youtu.be/FSLTNjGI8hw
If you watch the video you see he took delivery in November so its still a fairly early production car. And it might have been a car sitting on a lot for a while before he ordered it. It would be good to know his vin number for the number of production.

He does a fairly good job with an unbiased video and most of his videos are decent. I have caught a couple mistakes in math from him but he is pretty trust worthy to do a accurate video.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Dec 29 2018 8:04pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Dec 29 2018 12:13pm
If you watch the video you see he took delivery in November so its still a fairly early production car. And it might have been a car sitting on a lot for a while before he ordered it.
Sure, but by October Tesla had already produced over 100k M3s and were producing over 4000 per week. ...
.....so its not like this was a "one off" hand made pilot production vehicle.
Either Tesla has not got control of its quality checks, or they are producing a lot of poor quality vehicles ?
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Dec 29 2018 11:10pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 29 2018 7:56am
I remember Elon Musk giving a speech about how all Tesla batteries will be taken back and recycled, I was dubious.. It seems clear that most will end up in junkyards and bid on and reused on anything conceivably possible and then randomly dumped by its second-hand owner anywhere they find it convenient to do so.
Which is probably the best possible recycling scheme for these. It is always better to reuse something as-is than to reprocess it, using energy and creating waste in the process.

(My home power system uses a battery from a Tesla powertrain, taken out of a Daimler Smart.)
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 30 2018 4:23am

Hillhater wrote:
Dec 29 2018 8:04pm
Arlo1 wrote:
Dec 29 2018 12:13pm
If you watch the video you see he took delivery in November so its still a fairly early production car. And it might have been a car sitting on a lot for a while before he ordered it.
Sure, but by October Tesla had already produced over 100k M3s and were producing over 4000 per week. ...
.....so its not like this was a "one off" hand made pilot production vehicle.
Either Tesla has not got control of its quality checks, or they are producing a lot of poor quality vehicles ?
Its also possible this was a early production car and ended up in his hands some how.
The flaws are not horrible but I do agree it should be better than that.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 30 2018 12:28pm

This is floating around lol.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by lester12483 » Dec 30 2018 12:55pm

Hopefully Tesla has a profitable year in 2019.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Dec 30 2018 1:40pm

lester12483 wrote:
Dec 30 2018 12:55pm
Hopefully Tesla has a profitable year in 2019.
Elon said they will be profitable for now on. Other than when big re-payments come due. I think a big re-payment is due soon. But I bet that 1/4 they will just break even. All the rest will be profitable.
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
www.powerdesigns.ca
Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
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