Tesla Model 3

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 24 2019 2:45pm

billvon wrote:
Apr 24 2019 11:10am
Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 23 2019 1:35pm
Doubt it. Usually 1 cell ignites then another but the modules in a Model S are separate to make a smaller fire. So its more likely you will see some smoke then a small fire then a big fire if all the modules ignite.
In an 18650 battery pack without protection (eutetic material between cells, very powerful active cooling) then one cell lighting off will get the cell next to it to ignition temperature. This has been demonstrated quite a bit.
fechter wrote:
Apr 24 2019 8:20am
To get a fireball that big, a large section of the pack would need to short. The individual cell fuse wires are supposed to prevent more than one (or a few) cells from blowing in this case.
The individual fuses will protect the pack if one cell sees a dead short, but not if ignition occurs.
Usually you see some progression from smoke or small fire to big fire that looks like someone had an explosive installed
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 24 2019 6:14pm

Tesla announced a net loss of $702 million for the first quarter, translating to a loss of $4.10 per share. The company also listed $4.5 billion in revenue, which is below Wall Street expectations.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-q1 ... live-blog/

I'm sure people will drive different conclusions based on their preferences. Tesla is still the the leader with the best products on the market within each category.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 24 2019 10:30pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 24 2019 6:14pm
I'm sure people will drive different conclusions based on their preferences. Tesla is still the the leader with the best products on the market within each category.
Two other bits that will get the haters going:

Tesla has released a CO2 impact report detailing their generation of CO2 and mitigation of other emissions. It's a long report, but one simple comparison is between Tesla's solar business and its car business. Teslas have used 5.26 terawatt-hours for charging, based on miles driven and Supercharger reports. Tesla solar installations have generated 13.25 terawatt-hours of energy from the sun.

Also, new Model S cars will have a 370 mile range, more than Los Angeles to Las Vegas (and more than the range of most people's bladders.) This was achieved without battery changes - just motor efficiency improvements, software changes and bearing changes.
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 24 2019 10:35pm

billvon wrote:
Apr 24 2019 10:30pm
This was achieved without battery changes - just motor efficiency improvements, software changes and bearing changes.
That last part is incredible in its own. If I'm not mistaken, the number I've seen was something like 97% motor efficiency. Did you catch it anywhere, is that accurate ?

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 24 2019 11:55pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 24 2019 10:35pm
That last part is incredible in its own. If I'm not mistaken, the number I've seen was something like 97% motor efficiency. Did you catch it anywhere, is that accurate ?
Well, keep in mind that going from 335 to 370 is only a 10% improvement, so a few percent per subsystem gets you there.
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 25 2019 12:31am

cricketo wrote:
Apr 24 2019 10:35pm
billvon wrote:
Apr 24 2019 10:30pm
This was achieved without battery changes - just motor efficiency improvements, software changes and bearing changes.
That last part is incredible in its own. If I'm not mistaken, the number I've seen was something like 97% motor efficiency. Did you catch it anywhere, is that accurate ?
Yes I think its about 97 for the motor and 97 for the inverter. Which I think I read motor/controller combined efficiency at 93%
So its around there...
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 25 2019 12:36am

billvon wrote:
Apr 24 2019 11:55pm
cricketo wrote:
Apr 24 2019 10:35pm
That last part is incredible in its own. If I'm not mistaken, the number I've seen was something like 97% motor efficiency. Did you catch it anywhere, is that accurate ?
Well, keep in mind that going from 335 to 370 is only a 10% improvement, so a few percent per subsystem gets you there.
Uhhm... Well sort of but not really.

If you have 100% efficient powertrain and it takes x amount of power to sustain 60mph then a 93% powertrain will meen you need to add 7% more energy for the same distance. So lets say you need 12kw to sustain 60 mph with a 100% efficient powertrain you need 12kwh to travel 60 miles in 1 hour. But with a 93% efficient system you need 12.9kwh to travel 60 miles in 1 hour.
Yes it makes a difference but we are at a point of diminishing returns for sure.

The 100% efficient system would travel 500 miles on a 100kwh battery and the 93% efficient system would travel 465 miles on a charge. So there is not a lot left to gain.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Cephalotus » Apr 25 2019 1:52am

billvon wrote:
Apr 24 2019 10:30pm

Tesla has released a CO2 impact report detailing their generation of CO2 and mitigation of other emissions. It's a long report,
Maybe someone wants to read for himself: https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/tesla-i ... t-2019.pdf
but one simple comparison is between Tesla's solar business and its car business. Teslas have used 5.26 terawatt-hours for charging, based on miles driven and Supercharger reports. Tesla solar installations have generated 13.25 terawatt-hours of energy from the sun.
This makes a nice comparison but is entirely irrelevant for the ecological impact of Tesla cars, as long as this solar power is not used to charge or produce Tesla cars.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Apr 25 2019 3:37am

It would be great to see the promised solar roof fitted to the Gigafactory

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 25 2019 8:26am

Punx0r wrote:
Apr 25 2019 3:37am
It would be great to see the promised solar roof fitted to the Gigafactory
Man you guys find weird things to complain about.

Tesla had started this WELL OVER A YEAR AGO! Even without the building being finished!

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafac ... top-array/
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 25 2019 8:33am

Cephalotus wrote:
Apr 25 2019 1:52am
billvon wrote:
Apr 24 2019 10:30pm

but one simple comparison is between Tesla's solar business and its car business. Teslas have used 5.26 terawatt-hours for charging, based on miles driven and Supercharger reports. Tesla solar installations have generated 13.25 terawatt-hours of energy from the sun.
This makes a nice comparison but is entirely irrelevant for the ecological impact of Tesla cars, as long as this solar power is not used to charge or produce Tesla cars.
Actually its 100% relevant. Electricity added to the worlds supply that is green exceeding the electricity taken out by their products means they helped clean up the planet not just with the removal of tail pipe emissions but as well with a huge amount of clean energy on the front end.

Lets put it this way. Lets say coal power was 30 terawatt-hours in the area and now they added a demand of 5.26 terawatt-hours for the traditional Tesla vehicles but they also added 13.25 terawatt-hours of supply. Now coal power demand would be 22.01 terawatt-hours. On top of the reduced amount of dirty energy production you also have the savings of energy not making gasoline for those vehicles and you no longer have the tailpipe emissions for those vehicles and the trucks hauling their fuel.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by billvon » Apr 25 2019 1:29pm

Cephalotus wrote:
Apr 25 2019 1:52am
This makes a nice comparison but is entirely irrelevant for the ecological impact of Tesla cars, as long as this solar power is not used to charge or produce Tesla cars.
Only if you ignore the emissions caused by driving the car. Those are real and they are significant.
--bill von

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Apr 25 2019 4:34pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 25 2019 8:26am

Tesla had started this WELL OVER A YEAR AGO! Even without the building being finished!

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafac ... top-array/
I think you misunderstand me. I was cautiously excited when the GF1 plans were first announced that it would be a huge, energy hungry battery yet entirely self-powered using PV. For a while now that goal looks to have slipped as an priority, but I remain hopefully it is achieved as the developed of the factory continues.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 25 2019 9:41pm

LMFAO.... They do need to build the building before putting the solar on the roof .....
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 25 2019 10:00pm

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 25 2019 9:41pm
LMFAO.... They do need to build the building before putting the solar on the roof .....
+1

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Apr 26 2019 3:19am

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 25 2019 9:41pm
LMFAO.... They do need to build the building before putting the solar on the roof .....
I know it's a phased construction with room for future expansion, but the official grand opening was in July 2016 and mass production started in Jan 2017. There's roofspace for the proposed PV and ground space for the proposed wind turbines and geothermal. I don't know if the plan was always for these features to come only after expansion is over, or whether they'd grow with the factory and things are behind schedule.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 26 2019 9:49am

Punx0r wrote:
Apr 26 2019 3:19am
I don't know if the plan was always for these features to come only after expansion is over, or whether they'd grow with the factory and things are behind schedule.
Realistically it is probably a product of $$. They're just short in terms of budget at this time having multiple crazy projects going on in parallel. As soon as things stabilize and they're making a consistent profit, I won't be surprised if the solar roof magically appears.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 26 2019 10:29am

Let's not forget all the permits and paperwork involved. But really if I was Tesla I would focus on getting cars built and customer satisfaction. I would also spent money on the facility before the solar.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Punx0r » Apr 26 2019 11:18am

Agreed, that's definitely the priority for Tesla Motors. I've still got a good wait for used model 3's to hit the European market... I just want to see it done - proof of awesome concept and all that. Cradle-to-cradle battery plant with full end-of-life recycling and a closed-loop energy system powering it all.

I've also seen the lack of rooftop solar used by critics of renewables, along the lines of "they promised it in the permit applications but even though they own SolarCity they aren't using PV because solar obviously doesn't work!".

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 26 2019 11:23am

Punx0r wrote:
Apr 26 2019 11:18am
I've also seen the lack of rooftop solar used by critics of renewables, along the lines of "they promised it in the permit applications but even though they own SolarCity they aren't using PV because solar obviously doesn't work!".
There is a lot of solar on the roof already.
They likey need to keep the roof open next to any other sections of the building that will be getting expanded upon for different work to be done.

There is 100s of thousands of BS things people try to use to discredit Tesla and other companies and this shit makes me sick. But all we can do is keep working on what we know is right...
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by cricketo » Apr 26 2019 1:13pm

Btw, TSLA took a dive, so... I went and bought some more.

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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 26 2019 3:12pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 26 2019 1:13pm
Btw, TSLA took a dive, so... I went and bought some more.
Nice

I bet within 6-12 months it rallies hardcore!
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 26 2019 11:44pm

cricketo wrote:
Apr 26 2019 9:49am
Realistically it is probably a product of $$. They're just short in terms of budget at this time having multiple crazy projects going on in parallel. As soon as things stabilize and they're making a consistent profit, I won't be surprised if the solar roof magically appears.
This does not make sense considering Tesla has a huge facility in Buffalo ( GF2) to produce solar panels but with a workforce that is largely twiddling its fingers and sweeping the floors due to lack of orders.
Further, Tesla is committed to employ even more workers at that solar facility or face contract penalties.
So would it not make sense to use that plant to make a few million panels etc and use the idle workforce to install them in Sparks ?
Its all internal Tesla money so no real cost to the budgets other than raw materials.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Hillhater » Apr 27 2019 12:55am

Arlo1 wrote:
Apr 26 2019 11:23am
There is a lot of solar on the roof already.
They likey need to keep the roof open next to any other sections of the building that will be getting expanded upon for different work to be done....
It depends on your definition of “a lot of Solar” ?
By domestic RT solar standards , yes it “a lot”...but by commercial/industrial standards its hardly a token amount.
They certainly started installing in Feb ‘18, but they stopped again very soon after with probably less than 5% of existing roof space covered,..and considering we are told that the current building is only 1/3 of the full GF, that is a tiny fraction of the “Photos” shown on the GF1 facebook page
Its also pretty obvious from the latest drone fly over videos, that there is no building construction presently ongoing around GF1, nor has there been for nearly 2 years, and with the recent anouncement by Tesla that no further investment is planned until all current facilities are working effectively, its hard to see when the building , or the Solar roof, will be finally completed.
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Re: Tesla Model 3

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 27 2019 9:25am

So why build empty space?
Why put solar up that will need to be removed to connect infrastructure...?
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