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Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: Nov 09 2016 3:07am
by spinningmagnets
Announces that cells, and possibly even cars will be produced in EU. Germany likely to be in the lead for both...

https://electrek.co/2016/11/08/tesla-lo ... -and-cars/

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: Feb 23 2017 9:55pm
by LockH
Tesla is considering building up to 5 Gigafactories:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-con ... 14465.html

(Starts:)
Tesla is considering building up to five Gigafactories, the company said in its fourth-quarter investor letter on Wednesday.

Tesla is currently building Gigafactory 1 in Sparks, Nevada that is slated to operate in full capacity in 2018. The Gigafactory is Tesla's massive battery cell production facility.

The automaker said it is currently finalizing locations for two additional Gigafactories, potentially three. That means Tesla could have five Gigafactories in total, counting its solar plant in Buffalo, New York that it acquired when it bought SolarCity in a deal worth $2.1 billion. The Buffalo plant will produce solar cells for Tesla's solar roof product.

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: Feb 24 2017 1:23am
by amberwolf
Maybe they'll have a huge GigaShadow....

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 20 2017 4:10pm
by Cephalotus
If you think about how many subsidies they want and if you think how Tesla treat their workers and former business partners at Grohman engineering I'm not unhappy if they pass Germany with their "Gigafactory"...

I prefer companies that offer good jobs and have some business ethics.

Let's see if they can get the model 3 into the market and if they can make some profit at all. Burning through money will not work forever as many exploded bubbles and dreams at the stock market have shown before many times.

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 20 2017 4:35pm
by liveforphysics
Cephalotus wrote:If you think about how many subsidies they want and if you think how Tesla treat their workers and former business partners at Grohman engineering I'm not unhappy if they pass Germany with their "Gigafactory"...

I prefer companies that offer good jobs and have some business ethics.

Let's see if they can get the model 3 into the market and if they can make some profit at all. Burning through money will not work forever as many exploded bubbles and dreams at the stock market have shown before many times.

You must watch the news (which is Rothschild oil company propaganda).

Everyone of my friends at Tesla loves it. The product is so good it makes driving the German flagship cars feel like some historical relics of a dead era that will never be relevant again.

Also, it's called not being stupid to reinvest every cent into the development of higher volume mfg capacity and vertical integration of supply chain vs declaring "profits".

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 20 2017 5:12pm
by Cephalotus
liveforphysics wrote:
Everyone of my friends at Tesla loves it.
That's fine. Imho there is a quite different approach to work in US and Germany. I don't say that one is better than the other, but maybe there is some incompatibility here.

Most people here give a shit on working for a "cool company", they rather prefer to be treated and paid well and to have a significant amount of life outside their paid work time. On the other hand they are highly productive.
The product is so good it makes driving the German flagship cars feel like some historical relics of a dead era that will never be relevant again.
Yes, I like electric cars, too, and the Tesla S I tried is quite nice for todays technology, but this car is not at my price point. I think Tesla has been a great "driver" in the electric car market, they have achieved more than I would have anticipated 10 years ago, but Musk is not the Messiah and there is no need to treat him like one...

In German press there is some information about Grohmann personal not being happy being working now for Tesla and in British press there was an article about US workers at Tesla:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -elon-musk

This seems to work well in US, but if you want to build a factory in Germany at the moment times you better treat your workers well. There is a very low unemployed rate for qualified personal, so if you don't treat your workers well they will leave...

I don't know if this is compatible with the current Tesla approach...

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 21 2017 9:59am
by LockH
Anybuddy like to read history? (Early daze of automotive manufacturing in NA...)

The Story of Henry Ford's $5 a Day Wages: It's Not What You Think:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstal ... 06939766d2

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 21 2017 10:55am
by Ianhill
Ive seen elon hanging around in the uk pushing his solar ideas saying that we can meet our grid demands using solar wind and battery alone, I'm a bit skepticle on this at the moment we get 25% combined wind and solar at best for a few hours, I believe we can reach over 80% on bright blustry days with big investment but with out a back up ccgt or nuclear plant to top up during still nights etc then the risk of blackouts is still real so the UK is investing massive in nuclear fusion and we are building it on a small scale compared to before and with advancements we have had self sustained fusion but it's not possible for long periods of time so years to come we will have fusion reactors toping up the grid as to speak if you like making the renewables look weak and pointless .

The tesla has been stiff competition to the luxury sedan in all departments but it not perfect by a long shot so far it has all been about creating global recognition and driving the price down on materials to a point the model 3 is possible. That will be teslas model T moment a high production run of an affordable car then it's time to play the hard game of family cars with smaller margins not large luxury cars with bigger mark ups.

It's been proven scientificly that in an area with a dirty grid it's more benificial for the environment to drive a hybrid so the grid is still playing catch up so the new tech can be as green as it can we have a long old road ahead of us yet.

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 21 2017 11:22am
by rojitor
Tesla is definitely going to conquer europe. They have taken a dangerous path against our government.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
My country is ruled by a criminal gang. Most of them end up working for energetic companies in exchange for dirty favours.
One of the worst is the sun tax. Yes, we have to pay to the electric supply company for the sun light. Seems tesla has a defiant attitude against that mafia. Olé!

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 21 2017 2:35pm
by Cephalotus
Ianhill wrote:Ive seen elon hanging around in the uk pushing his solar ideas saying that we can meet our grid demands using solar wind and battery alone, I'm a bit skepticle on this at the moment...
Musk makes many promises. I assume this is what Americans like a lot, but it looks a bit "strange" to most people in our culture over here.

Like with his powerwall. Imho this product is rather sub standard compared to other things available on the market (and I have real life data on hundreds of systems). But you may disagree here, I'm not able to proof it anyway...

But a significant amount of batteries is not necessary until around 60-80% solar+wind in the grid (depending on the size and quality of the grid), if you have highly flexible residual power plants (gas)

A Tesla powerwall is as "stupid" with no positive grid interaction as are 99% of all small home batteries. There are very few exceptions like Caterva who use a cloud of small home storage system on the primary balancing power.
...is still real so the UK is investing massive in nuclear fusion and we are building it on a small scale compared to before and with advancements we have had self sustained fusion but it's not possible for long periods of time so years to come we will have fusion reactors toping up the grid as to speak if you like making the renewables look weak and pointless .
UK has fantastic(!) wind offshore resources.

Last wind offshore tender in Germany ended at a bid of 0ct/kWh (zero!). Companies don't want any subsidies at all, they just want the place and the grid connection. It should be even cheaper in UK with better wind and closer to the coast.

As fair as I know Hinkley C will get a feed in tarif of ca. 11pc/kWh plus inflation for 35 years! Costs for rebuilding and waste storage are not included. If it succeeds becomes more and more doubtful.

There are almost no nuclear companies left. Areva now belongs to EDF and they are in massive debt and barely kept alive by French government, Westinghouse is already bankrupt. Who is left? The South Koreans and they have shown little interest to expand that business...

I assume that we will see another major nuclear power plant meltdown within the next 20-30 years and I assume this will be the last nail in the coffin, except for those that need new material to make bombs...

But imho each country should decide on its own, as long as they are able to pay for any damage (insurance?) and as long as it is helpful on a way to less CO2 emissions...

I also think spending research money for fusion is a good thing. We may not need it on earth (to expensive), but maybe in space.

Kind regards

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 22 2017 3:03am
by liveforphysics
Burning things for fuel is already causing 3.5-5.5Million human deaths per year.

Everyone you say is a happy German car worker is just another player in the global mass death and self-extinction plan. The best thing that could happen if you value German workers having good conditions is to immediately cease and desist all their ICE related mfg jobs and find something positive and productive to due with their time that doesn't needlessly kill themselves and others and make a poison world for their children. The alternative is finding out the hard way that no amount of cash in the bank buys another clean breath.

When people scoff or share their thoughts one way or the other about solar viability, please do consider burning things in the singular shared planetary life support system was never a real solution and already is the cause of 10's of thousands of human lives daily, not to mention total collapse of the life giving systems on our spaceship being imminent if continued.

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 24 2017 2:22pm
by Cephalotus
liveforphysics wrote:Burning things for fuel is already causing 3.5-5.5Million human deaths per year...
Maybe there is some misunderstanding here? Sorry, English is not my native language.

I'm not opposing electric vehicles. The exact opposite is true, I believe they are one of the future core technologies and I would rather see the death of the ICE tomorrow than later...

But this does not mean that you don't need any business and management ethics just because you are a "cool startup".

At least this is my opinion, but opinions about a "good job" vary widely from country to country. I just put in my German perspective, which could be of value if you discuss about investing in Germany. Most people here don't want to work for a "cool" boss, we prefer businesses that offer good and well paid jobs that neither make you ill nor consume most of your life and do a good work. The unemployment rate for a German engineer is next to zero, so if you don't like a job you will not take it...

It sometimes is different for US companies to understand that, Walmart has been a prominent example.

On the other hand companies like Tesla (or Solyndra or EEStore...) would have never been able to grow in Germany. Sometimes this is a disadvantage...

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 24 2017 3:09pm
by parabellum
@Cephalotus
Every multinational company works differently in every country. Rules, treatment and expectation to the personal is different as well, they adapt to the labour market, labour market adapts to them, its bilateral learning curve every time. They will definitively hire a team of local consultants before picking location and starting any investment. If German labour force does not fulfil their expectation and vice versa, be sure, there will be no Tesla Gigafactory in Germany.

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 24 2017 7:50pm
by Ianhill
rojitor wrote:Tesla is definitely going to conquer europe. They have taken a dangerous path against our government.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
My country is ruled by a criminal gang. Most of them end up working for energetic companies in exchange for dirty favours.
One of the worst is the sun tax. Yes, we have to pay to the electric supply company for the sun light. Seems tesla has a defiant attitude against that mafia. Olé!

If spain has had its sun taxed then the uk will be looking at a wind tax soon, all the OAP's best watch out the goverment is already after their pensions now they will charge them to fart, but on a serious note it's a scandal to tax a renewable energy but if we do get even close to a clean grid with lots of people providing their own energy then some low life will need new ideas to get thier hands in to your pocket I feel the weight of many thumb prints stacking up on my forehead trying to pin me down Im suprised I've not shrunk.

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 25 2017 12:49am
by Hillhater
Unless i am mistaken, the UK has been taxing people for the amount of rain water that runs off their roof , and the amount of crap you put down the toilet .( included in the Water Rates)
And historically they did also impose a "window tax" on buildings proportionate to the size of windows installed !
So a "sunlight" tax proportional to your Solar array size is perfectly possible.
I know we will all be paying a distance toll to use all road vehicles fairly soon, when fuel tax revenue begins to shrink

Re: Tesla scouts locations for "Gigafactory-2" in EU

Posted: May 26 2017 1:08pm
by Ianhill
Hillhater wrote:Unless i am mistaken, the UK has been taxing people for the amount of rain water that runs off their roof , and the amount of crap you put down the toilet .( included in the Water Rates)
And historically they did also impose a "window tax" on buildings proportionate to the size of windows installed !
So a "sunlight" tax proportional to your Solar array size is perfectly possible.
I know we will all be paying a distance toll to use all road vehicles fairly soon, when fuel tax revenue begins to shrink
There's only two things In life you can count on and that's death and taxes.
Spain looks to be high up the list and its location is quite attractive radiation wise for a solar powered factory.