Page 4 of 5

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 20 2019 10:02pm
by methods
Nice... dead link after dead link
http://www.homeplug.org/tech-resources/green-phy-iot/

Power LIne Transformer:
https://www.codico.com/fxdata/codico/pr ... -12-23.pdf
Source: https://www.codico.com/en/Products/Home ... en-Phy.htm

Reference: SPI protocol doc... reasonable doc... short
https://www.codico.com/fxdata/codico/pr ... v.%203.pdf

Ah.... C L I C K
.
.
OneBeerCLICK.png
Source: http://sundigitalsys.com/about.html

Reference: PLC = Qualcomm Atheros integrated Powerline Communication (PLC) circuits
Reference: Atheros is a key word (missed that before)

>...... This is called the "Bruit Force Method"

I do not need to think to do this
I just HAMMER Google with my GoogleFoo
When I am done... big pile of rocks

I then crush up those rocks
Soak in chemicals
Extract gold
...

If you try to crush all rocks on internet, you run out of chemicals, and you get no gold.
You must make passes thru the bedrock. . .

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 20 2019 10:10pm
by methods
So from that I gather that it is not a range (as sometimes there are many versions as time goes by... )

But two categories or types?
QCA7000/QCA7005 (which we already determined are the same functionally)
and
QCA7420/1540

OK

Guessing ...
The 7420 came later
The 7420 is legacy compatible
The 7420 is faster or more powerful or more efficient or smaller footprint or with more IO

... Back to the source of the questions:
I started here: http://www.drop-beats.com/en/index.php/products/plc2021

I saw that they sell two flavors of toy
This faster toy: http://www.drop-beats.com/en/index.php/products/plc2050
Based on: QCA7420

Vs slower toy based on this: QCA641X
That looks like Muck - tossing that to side of pile. Tailings

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 20 2019 10:15pm
by methods
HIT

Top of page 9, confirmation and clue
http://www.drop-beats.com/en/images/pdf/DB2050.pdf

"Ethernet PHY support"

OK
PHY is requirement for what we need to implement
We can now equate that to Ethernet... so...

That clues us in

.. Now it is time to go back and read more on PHY - starting with WIKI

(I am demonstrating this so you see... that it is not like you just go someplace and look at the cook-book when you want to fry some fish. There are a million fish recipes. There are a thousand kinds of fish. There are 10,000 spices.... Before you go try to read... you have to have your KEY WORDS... your ZOOM TOOLS... so you can sift from all the rubble the ore which is most likely to produce results)

(I go at it pigheaded first... I learned this long ago... as going in with a scapulae from the very beginning can lead to months or years lost going down this rabbit hole and that rabbit hole)

(Breadth and Depth - this is how we attack. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM then one big DEPTH CHARGE then back to BOOM BOOM BOOM)

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 20 2019 10:26pm
by methods
So... time to play Monopoly... but...

The demo board landed
DemoBoard.png
As well as 6pcs of the module found on the Demo Board
(For my board)

As well as the one-off
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/9597665

My hope
Is that coming into this totally blind
I can buy one more bit... (or make something)
And hook this up to a CCS1 Charge Station
And successfully sniff out a session

...

No doubt there will be some KFF along the way
:kff:
(and thanks to whoever turned Kentucky Friend Finger into a gif)

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 20 2019 10:34pm
by methods
Refining,
Again - for the whole show, reference this:

https://uk.pi-supply.com/products/wispl ... s-lx200v30

Where it is said. .. .
APPLICATIONS..... "Automotive electronic charging pile" (of shit)

Where it is said. .. .
INCLUDES........ "PLC transmission transformers"

SO
I am hoping that.... :lol:

-methods

NOTE: Over the last 5 or 10 years... I have found more GREEN information coming out of Canada and the UK than the US by a LONG STRETCH.

NOTE: Over the same time period I have met more super awesome folks who are 100% down for the revolution from UK and Canada sources. Sad but true... To really get an EV masturbating session going... one has to jump the globe at times.

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 20 2019 11:39pm
by methods
1561091872163760.jpg
1561091872447824.jpg
The 420 chip. . .

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:07am
by methods
RAK Open Source Hardware
.
.
FotR.png
.
.
Clearly friends of the revolution
Hire them

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:22am
by methods
Ah yes...
These are our Friends yea?
RAK.png
Source: http://wiskey.org/doku.php

...
OMG.png
.
.
Are you seeing?
.
.
OMG1.png

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:23am
by methods
Winning.png
-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:25am
by methods
WARNING - PORNOGRAPHY

.
.
.
PORN_ALERT.png
.
.
.

ALARM!
ALARM!
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :bigthumb: :bigthumb: :bigthumb:

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:31am
by methods
So now we look thru the Demo Board schematic to identify all the peripherals needed to make the basic module work.
(Because we have only 1 demo board. . . )

And...
Only person who is lacking good sense goes and tries to test against 200V-1000V Car Charging yes? First you get baseline running really well in the basement. Then you go out to do field test.

First you get baseline running bulletproof in basement
Then you go out to do field test

First you get baseline running all day every day in basement - no hiccups
Then you go do field test

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:40am
by methods
Next Step is to print everything out in PAPER

Wood pulp smashed together by big steel rollers
.
.
1561127797356140.jpg
.
.
Do not skip this step

... You will need to take this printed paper to the bathroom with you. Every time you sit on the toilet, you read this paper. Front to back. Front to back. Front to back.

When you think you know all the information
then you read it from Back to Front
If you can not anticipate each technical subject and know answer immediately

Then you did not study enough

>.. Think I am joking dawg?

Study it until you KNOW IT
NOt...... Until you can "Regurgitate it"

... I need no human to regurgitate. I have computer for this now YES?
I have google to regurgitate

My plan for Human is to THINK INTO FUTURE
YES?

To think in a way which is profitable for me. . . I will need you to KNOW (not think you know)... K N O W ... a bunch of really complicated stuff.

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:49am
by methods
Hmmm... nice

Now I have reading material.
I see that it is supplied by a company named RAK

RAK
The simplest, the best
(I agree. Simple is best. Always)


Shenzhen Rakwireless Technology Co., Ltd

This is a Chinese Company yes?
We are friends.

.... See Donald?
This is how you make FRIENDS with China.

They make stuff
They advertise it
We share information together
We go to Outer Space

OK DONALD?

We are not needing to go fight with IRAN

OK DONALD?

... I am going to be President soon if you keep playing this game like Reality TV show ...

We are poor people who have to make technology work so that we can eat.
You are .....

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:52am
by methods
Eh Hem...
Someone took my Keyboard and started ranting about War Mongers.

I am back in control of it now.

... eh...
Off to research this company RAK
They are good company, I can tell... because they want to share information and work together

...

When we are in Outerspace together...

It will be cold
It will be dark
We will need to help eachother

Not fight

Not play this game about money that Rich men like to play

In space. . .
The concept of Resource Constraint
Will be re-invented

There are infinite resources
This is a human mind limitation based on being trapped in the cage called E A R T H

Overpopulated cage
Someone stepped on all the banannas
Made mush on floor

Then someone pee all over that
No longer good to eat

In space...
We build BIG ROBOT FOOD PLANT

Make more food than you could ever eat
YES?

Make Whisky too

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 9:56am
by methods
Research of company
Company have DIY spirit
rADsTUFF.png
-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 10:02am
by methods
Hmmm...

I see KEY WORDS here?

IP67
Battery Backup
External Antenna

... Those sound like good things.

So...
I can unplug it
Throw it on ground
Blast it with pressure washer?

... One thing we are not good at marking simply is how robust a package is to Shock and Vibration.

YES?

There are Spec's you can pass
Example from Department of Transportation (DOT)

What spec must I pass to go on SPACESHIP?????

Very Cold
High Vibration
Must survive Shock

Hmmmmmmm..... Food for thought

If it is good enough for a Spaceship then it will be good enough to strap under the car?
Maybe...

I can tell you this as truth:
Price comes down with Quantity
Price comes down with Quantity

So
If we all use Aerospace Grade Stuff....

The price will come down

...

Currently the Money Mongers use $0.1 Connectors
The cheapest garbage which does not protect electrical connections
This is same thing that happened decade or two ago... when another economy got bad reputation

We do not seek BAD REPUTATION

We... Seek... Good Reputation
For making reliable things that last a long time

Like German Machines
Like Japanese Machines
Like Military Machines

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 10:43am
by methods
Done reading all printed out manuals, Front to back 1 time

I see great detail in how to wind Transformer.
I have zero doubt that this Transformer is sold pre-wired as dongle-nugget

I. . .
Can focus on DIY'ing this stuff

I...
Can focus on getting Digikey to restock stuff like this

I...
Can keep researching other applications to see if there is a low cost COTS solution which can be hacked.

Most likely
There is some sort of Home Automation stuff which can be purchased for very cheap.

We then swap out 2 to 8 components to increase the Voltage Handling to 1.2KV
Maybe it works as it comes... maybe it makes sparkles later.
Best to swap components to match Voltage Requirements.
Add 20% margin to everything at this stage

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 11:04am
by methods
Rolling over to a different job
(This one is for SE. Paying myself $0/hr on this work :wink: )

I have some $25/hr work
I have some $50/hr work
I have some $100/hr work
I have some $125/hr work

Hmmm......
Which to do.

It is important to choose your work wisely.
It is impossible to do work that you hate (well) over a long time period.
You must select work which you enjoy and you would do for free.... but... you must charge rates in accordance to market.

I live in the Bay Area of California
There is no hotter market
. . . Over here we pay kids fresh out of college (albeit top of class kids) $75/hr + phat stock bonus which pays out.

...

I get paid $0 for working on the revolution
I get paid $25 for writing
I get paid $50 for working on cars
I get paid $100 for Apps (building highly complex tools which integrate across the stack)
I get paid $125 for work involving high risk (immediate risk of death, long term risk of gamble, things to take very serious)

Those are not exact numbers. They are rounded to $25 bumps.
I do not know what work is $75/hr.... I will tell you when I find it

But
That pay is in relation to the cost of living

For 2 years I had to pay $2,650.00/mo
This was for tiny flat of 400 sqft
1 bedroom only for my kid
I sleep in living room

Tiny yard
Tiny garage
reasonable driveway

But... Cost of living here is very high
1 room goes for $900 even WAY UP IN MOUNTAINS far away. Tiny room.

You can pay thousands for just a room close to Google Campus.

...

This is not advertisement
This is TIMESTAMP OF REALITY
From RELIABLE SOURCE

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jun 21 2019 11:14am
by methods
How many hours of day to work?

All hours

#1 work. . .
Teaching next generation -
not to be useless blob.

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Sep 16 2019 11:14am
by methods
UPDATE:

I have had paying work so the parts I bought for this project are rotting under my desk. The good news is that I have been doing ACTUAL DESIGN work lately... so I am all tuned up with what will be needed to succeed at this project.

I talked to an enthusiast who has worked on similar systems that are in production. He pointed out that his team is using a very different part number. Something more expensive and enclosed in some sort of case. No idea what that part is, but it probably has to do with EMI or some shit like that. This is a noisy, dirty, business.. . ....

... Most recently I have mastered (sub-mastered) BLE, so Low Energy Bluetooth as well as NFC (Near Field Communication). I now know exactly how all those Hotel door keys (RFID cards) work and just like everything - it is just a matter of reading 600 pages of datasheet.

As for EV's.... this is what I rode Yesterday
IMAG0448.jpg
IMAG0448.jpg (1.85 MiB) Viewed 3854 times
Roached to the max.
The front and rear brakes were stuck so I had to soak them in PB Blaster and PTFT Lubricant just to ride. I threw whatever batteries I could find in an Ammo Box and strapped it to the only place it would fit.

Got me there
Got me back
And I did not have to rent a JUMP bike.

Kim rented a JUMP. . . but I have shit listed them pending clarification around their shady "Fees" that hit your card when you park them outside of the little boundary zones.

As for Writing?
Been doing A LOT.

I have two writers who I emulate.
ChuckUFarlie.jpg
ChuckUFarlie.jpg (110.67 KiB) Viewed 3854 times
and
TomR.jpg
TomR.jpg (133.88 KiB) Viewed 3854 times
You have to be selective with both of them. They have both produced some real mind numbing garbage. . . but hidden on the shelves... is some SOLID GOLD.

Those who men have found a way to cook down 40 years of extreme life experience into a set of analogies. I have come to believe that they purposely produce some Noise (as in Signal to Noise) to keep the gold nuggets in place.

I do the same.

-methods

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Sep 16 2019 11:18am
by methods
What Else. . .

I was contacted by some strange German Man regarding this thread. He came on nice then started ranting in his foreign tongue. I had to use Google Translate. . . and when I did... it was quite entertaining. :lol:

I encourage the use of COLORFUL LANGUAGE when you feel the need to express yourself.

Live the Dream

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Nov 10 2019 1:59pm
by methods
When trying to solve REALLY BIG riddles sometimes the best thing to do is Deep Dive and then Walk Away.

Walk away for an hour
Walk away for a day
Walk away for a week
Walk away for a month
Walk away for a year

Bigger the problem
Longer the time you spend reflecting

...

During this reflection period it is very common to find many false leads that may appear to side-step the problem. Write these leads down on a board

Bubbles
Lines connecting Bubbles
Capture the full System with inter-dependencies

... A primary difference I have noticed between circular thinkers (quacks) and epic geniuses is this ability to maintain the wide and narrow focal point at the same time.

Anyway...
(Sitting at home sick. Eating Chinese Food for breakfast...)

I recently became aware of this DIY BMS Master than can speak with the Slave Modules of the top tier OEM Battery Modules. That was a huge missing puzzle piece in this solution set.

...
To brainstorm a bit
We are having great issues with Grid Infrastructure
Many have lined up AGAINST EV Progress

...
I think the solution is to Side Step the argument
Re-Focus on Energy Independence
Develop Solar and Inverters
Develop (Mobile) Stationary Storage
Worry less about Protocol (like CCS1 and all the garbage in this thread)
Worry less about Connector type (see above)
Worry more about just standardizing on the actual mechanics of what is going on

So
Back to basics
There is DC
There is AC

Solar creates DC
Random DC

Cars can take AC (up to 10KW) or DC (up to 100KW)
Cars at home need not charge fast
Internationl Standard is AC
J1772 is quite simple

... Solar + Inverter + GridTie + any attempt at sationary storage
(To drive the inverter industry to support it)
(even if it is a 1Ah battery... it must be there in the system!)

...

This takes me away from this big fight about getting this garbage CCS stuff working.

I can tell when something has been made to be overly complicated by its nature.
A slow-down
A stumbling block
....

Meh
X-10 Modules are super simple
CCS Charging EV's is a black hole

This... Comms over Power is susceptible to mistakes so it carries no magic safety... It is no more safe than wireless comms.

...

Every car has Bluetooth
Most cars have 3G or better Internet connection
Cars are becoming wireless

Authentication is easy
Serial numbering is easy
Safe Wireless is easy

Meh -

Every bone in my body says that this is not the solution we want to continue working toward. The big Charge Companies have eliminated low voltage support.

...

First we must simplify the protocol
Second we must drive down the cost and complexity of the Interconnects

...

I still think the ultimate solution is a 3rd Option

Option 1) Drive 240V AC into Car
Option 2) Drive 200V - 1000V Clean DC into Car
Option 3) Compromise

Back in the Think Tank days the best idea (which did not win) was to TRANSFER DIRTY POWER

Dirty Power can be anything
It can be Bi-Polar or Unipolar
It can be Steady DC or Chopped
It can be 50hz or 50khz
It really does not matter

Dirty Power. . . is almost as easy to deal with as Standard AC

...
The question becomes:
"How small and light of a "Dirty Power to DC Charge" Converter can you create?
We would want these to be 10KW bricks
Automobiles could put 1 to 15 bricks in their car
Bricks could be swapped out

Yes...
It is some dead weight to carry around...

What you would get from the dead weight is the ability to plug your car into anything.

Found a 120V AC socket? Plug it in.
Found a 240V AC socket? Plug it in.
Found a 480V AC socket? Plug it in.
Found a big DC source? Plug it in.
Found a hella choppy, super noisy, wicked bunch of shit? Plug it in.

:idea:

That is where things need to go if we are going to scale massively.
An Electric Vehicle needs to be able to charge off of anything it can find in any form.

Forget these people who are trying to take control of the industry and put themselves in a middle-man position to profit greatly...

You do not need a CHAdeMO connector
You do not need a CCS1 connector
You do not need a CCS2 connector
You do not need a Tesla connector
You do not need. . . to conform... to anything - IF - You have onboard Conversion and Protection....

...
Your Trunk or Frunk can open up to have any number of adapters in there.
Yea - at first - it will be a Nerd Mess... but... the market will take over from there and fix things

... The most BASIC of comms are all that is needed. Even the extended J1772 can handle it

KISS
Keep It Simple Stupid
I... am seeing startups fail and lose runway.... over total BS

... Think outside the box and remember that sometimes we have to throw away a lot of work to start clean.

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Nov 10 2019 2:13pm
by methods
Requirements:

1) The output of the 10KW brick shall be Fixed DC Voltage and not Variable
Rational: It is much easier, cheaper, and more compact to make a small range, fixed CV. Reference Meanwell.

2) The output of the 10KW brick shall be standard CC/CV. The CV is fixed while the CC is variable.
Rational: Variable CC is required to not over-draw the source capacity

3) The input and output of the bricks shall be fully parallel compliant. The bricks shall not stack Series.
Rational: Must use the building block approach. Must Value Engineer for cost and weight severely.

4) The conversion efficiency must be greater than 90%
Rational: Managing waste heat and getting away from elitist talk about 99% this and 98.7% that.

5) The input voltage range must span +/- 1,000V
Rational: We want margin in there. We want to accept 480 Mains directly. We want to transfer power using voltage and not current for cable weight. We want to support DIRTY POWER

6) The Bricks shall be liquid cooled
Rational: Just do what I said

7) The output DC of the bricks can be as noisy as hell
Rational: Who said a Lithium Battery requires a perfectly clean DC, Lab Grade, signal? NOBODY.

8) The bricks shall combine in parallel to work together with a single system Master and multiple slave units. The single master will negotiate with the over-draw POC. The only information which need be conveyed is "How much can I draw?". This can be handled by the existing J1772...

TIME -

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Dec 30 2019 12:48pm
by methods
The fuse may have been lit on this one again.
The 420 hardware is still sitting on my shelf gathering dust. My most honest truth is that I do not believe it is a good solution that will persist. . . (the PLC)... it was amazing back in the X10 days before everything was BLE and SmartPhone enabled... but it truly offers next to nothing in the face of emerging and existing technology.

That said -
We are on a timeline that is rolling out to DECADES over here and R&D costs are a primary driver. In order to get anything professional done we have to work with the puzzle pieces that are available. Mechanical connectors in production, protocol's which are defined, stacks which are open source, and ... honestly... ANYTHING... that can hack us thru the bushes and get us to MVP.

So
If I am severely unlucky... :mrgreen: I may be researching and ordering some of those transformers, building out both ends of the system, and getting my "HELLO WORLD" comms running over some high-cycle-count connectors in a high noise configuration.

My advice to anyone attacking this is to not worry about the DIN and ISO specifications so much. In the next few years we will have an abundance of support in that area. You may even see a third and better option. All you need to remember is to maintain mechanical and electrical compatibility - because - if that is in place then "it all works"" and it is simply a matter of what the firmware expects on both ends of the horn.

... I wont regurgitate it here (tho it was work paid for by SE, so I could) -- but I recently went over the "how and why" of all the fussy bits in the EV Charge Reality. Temperature Sensing, Cooled Cabling, Exponential Limits, Interlocks, Intent Buttons, Pin Cycle Counts, Step-Function high current changes, Noise, C.O.T.S. Availability, lead time contraints... all that shit... so...

What you need to know as the Enthusiast is that MOST (if not all) of the pieces in an EV charge system (or even just the cable in this case) are there for a very good reason. Failure to implement all of the options (that you can easily find on Wiki) will result in obvious and great sorrow.

In closing
All EV charge will implement some form of cooled cabling soon. The only time it wont is when it is running at something like a thousand volts plus. The most basic of Ohms law dictates this and it is near trivial to execute if done right. It can be proven quickly in an experimental way. You use materials with a high breakdown temperature, high thermal conductivity, high electrical insulation value, high flexibility. Materials like Kapton. You take an existing charge cable and add to it a few mm in diameter to allow a liquid tube to go out to the handle and back. You pump chilled coolant with a high thermal capacity into this tube and you use a heat exchanger on the other end (shown previously in this thread).

It doesn't take that much and you can calculate the power dissipated in any cross-section. You do not in any way have to remove all of that heat. . . and it is critically important to understand that on the hottest day, in the hottest desert, after thermal cycling the most times... IT WONT PERFORM - DUH --- LOL ---- D U H --- You simply throttle back available power in that case. In the other 80% of the use cases, we can run 100% duty cycle all day every day.

... Listen ...
In EV, it is recognized, that great gains can be made by accepting that we do not have to operated exactly the same across all environments. That concept is a Military Planning/Logistics concept and it does not apply. What does apply is good, old, Swamp-Cooler logic... so... if you are working with cables that are overheating... just get them wet, allow them to evaporate, and watch the active power management bring up your rate of current.

-- Anyhow --
Bidding multiple jobs in totally separate sectors. Any time I am bidding jobs that means I am charging my own clock. When I charge my own clock then I need to double or triple use the time spent.

Good day to you sir's

-methods

Re: Using EV Chargers

Posted: Jan 12 2020 1:58pm
by methods
I am currently working outside of the EV sector (a nice break after a harsh season of growth) but as you grow older you find that all things are basically the SOS (Same Old Shit).

By this I mean, the more experience you get, the more you see parallels in the work you do. Finding a way to further your knowledge base in multiple sectors at once (thru work that may seem mundane), is the ticket.

Wax On
Wax Off
Sand the Deck
Paint the Fence. . .

So to draw parallels -
Most recently I developed, tested, and revved load sharing hardware/firmware/software. IoT solutions for minimizing peak demand thru recognition of area under the curve.

i.e. -
Work is an integration over a period, call it 2 hours
Peak Requirement is what drives infrastructure needs
Spacing out peak requirement, while maintaining power under the curve, is the epic future.

Leaders in this area are places like Freewire. . . who still seem to be a bit under the radar.... but in certain worlds they are front and center. Lately I have been working out of a Tek Hub in San Leandro/Oakland. It is the front line for Gentrification and horrid conditions. . . but. . . real estate is cheap - anyhow - a couple times a week I find myself at the Home Depot next to Freewire so they pop into my head.

YES -
Averaging of peak needs is everything... and nobody is on it... and it is all about Stationary Storage which is Mobile. I swore thru my teeth in the early days that this was to be the Automobile. Just.... outfit the car with multiple inlets and outlets ... meet a dirty-power standard to swap energy between vehicles... have everyone own at least and extra car... and we have it.

Turns out - I guess only I am the kind of guy who owns 5 cars at a time. Normal people dont have the space or patience or whatever...

Super digressing here -
Point is

We are currently on the cusp of a lot of IoT around Power Transfer. The "Old Way" is not cutting it because they require wiring and souring and a bunch of REALLY EXPENSIVE AND LONG LEAD SHIT that matches Peak Need. It is absolutely REQUIRED of those in the business of Energy Transfer to recognize Load Averaging, Peak Need, etc... to lower that peak down to something like half.

And of course - the damn fools who work logistics at places like PG&E have to accept that the plan failed, that they are not going to have some Master Computer which takes requests and data from a 100,000 different clients ... for load management. Load management is going to happen local and in clusters. So - those in big power management... need to back off from the details and look at nodal points. The only way to get the data is to watch the data...

and... yea...

I am just working in the Hospitality Business right now... but we are still on the edge of solving Peak Need, using smarts in our products to manage timing of asynchronous equipment, reporting out status and taking JSON commands over IoT-type nets...

And it all works out to the same, if you spend 20% of your time making sure your work pays double when you do it.

Good luck guys.

-methods