19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Offroader » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:11 pm

brumbrum, 15.5" is way high if that is to the center, mine is 14.2" to center of bottom bracket. The downhill community says that 15.5" would be way too high and like it more between 13.8" and 14.2". How much of a difference it actually makes, who knows.

If you swap on a 26"x3.00 front it would raise your bottom bracket even higher. Basically, you would want to use a different rear shock mount in the rear to lower the bike some. You would want to try and measure the head tube angle.

I choose not to go the 19"x2.75 route. Mainly because it would hurt the geometry of the bike, as my bike was designed for a 26" front. Using a 27.5" fork will allow you to maybe off-set some of this loss. The other issue is it would add additional weight to the front, but not a huge amount as my MTX 39 rim weighs close to a 19"x1.4 rim and my duro razorback weighs 3.5 lbs, compared to a 19x2.75 which weighs around 6 lbs. Larger tires also roll over stuff easier, so I would lose some performance by going smaller in the front.

The other problem is a 19x2.75 is very stiff tire and I would think it would not work as well as the razorback.

This all matters or not depending on how you ride the bike, and in the end it probably doesn't matter all that much. I just think my bike handles and feels so well, especially with the thin frame and weight very centered. It would be great if we could ride each others bikes to see how all these things really matter.

brumbrum, you mentioned you noticed extra weight in the rear, is this extra weight a problem? Do you notice less acceleration because of the larger tire?
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby litespeed » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:02 pm

Well being one of the 19/17 guys out there I can tell you that it rides perfect. I have a light weight motorcycle with peddles.....not a heavy bicycle!

Of course I think it looks best as well. I just want/need some fenders for the perfect look.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby brumbrum » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:55 am

For me, what is most important is being able to plug through thick mud and feel stable, so the fatter the tyres and deeper the tread the better, i see my bike as more of a tractor. My bike is never used on road for more than say 200m which is whilst i hop between trails or hillsides. I have a campervan which my bike wheels into so i can get to the forest roads and mountains.

@Offroader,
No real noticeable difference in acceleration that i can perceive. My only concern is possible higher temps on a two hour run due to new tyre being 25" diameter rather than 23" on the 3" tyre. There is a weight penalty i have definitely added an extra kilo or maybe more. I think that the whole rear package must weigh 17-18kg. I can still lift my bike, but it has got a little harder with the new tyre. Will it be worth it? I cannot comment as yet, my wife delivered my son(second child) into the world just 5 days ago, so i aint had much sleep or personal time in the last 10 days. If this new tyre grips more and absorbs more, then yes it will be worth it.
Last edited by brumbrum on Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:04 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby brumbrum » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:18 am

litespeed wrote:Well being one of the 19/17 guys out there I can tell you that it rides perfect. I have a light weight motorcycle with peddles.....not a heavy bicycle!

Of course I think it looks best as well. I just want/need some fenders for the perfect look.

Tom


I highly recommend a 'mudhugger' rear fender/guard. They are made by a UK company but i believe you can get them stateside....
Image

You may have to cut away a little plastic where the chain passes the mudhugger, but it is very easy either with dremel type tool of by hand. The mudhugger will cover a 3.00" moto tyre easily and with a bit of heat from a heat gun and stretching will also cover my 3.5" tyre
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby ecycler » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:23 am

I also ride a 26MTB front and 17moto rear on one of my bikes. I recently switched out the 17x3 241 for a 17x2.5 244 and oh boy did I immediately notice how much better the turn-in has improved. It is definitely more flickable, but now a little more squirrely offroad and harsher ride on the street. The 244s do roll a bit better than the 241s. Not sure which I prefer, but it is fun to change things up every now and then. I am interested to compare the difference in snow soon too.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby litespeed » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:44 pm

brumbrum wrote:
litespeed wrote:Well being one of the 19/17 guys out there I can tell you that it rides perfect. I have a light weight motorcycle with peddles.....not a heavy bicycle!

Of course I think it looks best as well. I just want/need some fenders for the perfect look.

Tom


I highly recommend a 'mudhugger' rear fender/guard. They are made by a UK company but i believe you can get them stateside....
Image

You may have to cut away a little plastic where the chain passes the mudhugger, but it is very easy either with dremel type tool of by hand. The mudhugger will cover a 3.00" moto tyre easily and with a bit of heat from a heat gun and stretching will also cover my 3.5" tyre


Fender looks good on there. Looks like you could use some more front fender though.

Thanks for the heads up.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Baron » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:58 pm

What is the true width of the shinko 241 in 17x3, 17x2.75, and 17x2.5 size? I have an edge 1500w laced in a 17" coming in the mail and I'm going to try fitting it in my genesis v2100 frame. think I might have to grind off the v-brake mounts for more space?

Also, I think I read here that that 3.00 width tire is made of a different compound than the 2.75 and 2.50. Is that true, and which one do you guys prefer?
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Rix » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:14 am

Baron wrote:What is the true width of the shinko 241 in 17x3, 17x2.75, and 17x2.5 size? I have an edge 1500w laced in a 17" coming in the mail and I'm going to try fitting it in my genesis v2100 frame. think I might have to grind off the v-brake mounts for more space?

Also, I think I read here that that 3.00 width tire is made of a different compound than the 2.75 and 2.50. Is that true, and which one do you guys prefer?


Shinkos come in wider than their advertised measurements. Both these tires in the pic are 2.75-17 tires. The wider one is the Shinko SR241 which measures about 3.15 wide or so on a 1.40 rim, conversely the IRC TR1 measures exactly 2.75 inches wide on the same rim. If clearance is an issue, the only tire I have found that actually comes in just a tiny bit under the advertises measurements is the Vee Rubber VRM021 2.75-17 and 2.75-19 tires, they are around 2.65-2.70 for a 2.75 wide front tire. And vee rubber is a confusing company with their VRM021 series. If the tires are spec'd as "Front only" the will be narrower than tires of the same spec'd as "Front/Rear" of the same width. I know this because I a 2.75-18 VRM021 on the rear of my bike which is rated "Front/Rear" and a 2.75-19 VRM on the front which is rated as "Front" only. There rear is 5mm wider than the front.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Offroader » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:23 pm

I took this picture a while back but this is the width of a 3" shinko 241 on a 1.6" 17"
rim. The width is 3.260 inches.

I have both the 3" and 2.75 in the shinko 241 in 17. The 3" has more tread, much deeper, on the tire and is much softer compound. The 2.75" compound feels very hard. If you can fit the 3" , use that over the 2.75".

I never rode on the 2.75", but I had a 19" 2.75", and the 17" 3.00" just blew it away so I never even bothered using the 2.75" 17". Both 2.75" are designed for the front and seem to have a very hard compound, while the 3.00" is for the rear and is very soft. You can easily feel it with your fingers.

We are lucky that that they make the 3.00" version with such soft compound, because I think it is just right for an Ebike. I was reading the reviews on it and lots of those heavy motorcycles which use it complained that it wore out fast. But since our ebikes are so light and lacks the torque in the rear to spin the tire, they don't wear out in like 500 miles like a heavier motorcycle would, but last a good 2000+ miles.

I can measure my 2.75 17" if you need a width measurement on that.

I believe a user on the forum makes a modified genesis swingarm, you should see if that allows for a wider tire.

Image

Image
Last edited by Offroader on Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Baron » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:04 pm

Thanks guys, just measured my genesis frame. It looks like the widest part of the 17x3.00 tire is right around where the V-brake mounts are located, so I'll have to grind those off. Only 2.5" of clearance between the V-brake mounts, but about 3-5/8" after I grind them off. I would get a farfle swingarm but instead of investing around $200 in that, I figured I would save that money for a proper ebike frame. But for now I think I will try epoxying some Docbass torque arms to my genesis frame
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Rix » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:51 pm

Offroader wrote:I took this picture a while back but this is the width of a 3" shinko 241 on a 1.6" 17"
rim. The width is 3.260 inches.

I have both the 3" and 2.75 in the shinko 241 in 17. The 3" has more tread, much deeper, on the tire and is much softer compound. The 2.75" compound feels very hard. If you can fit the 3" , use that over the 2.75".

I never rode on the 2.75", but I had a 19" 2.75", and the 17" 3.00" just blew it away so I never even bothered using the 2.75" 17". Both 2.75" are designed for the front and seem to have a very hard compound, while the 3.00" is for the rear and is very soft. You can easily feel it with your fingers.

We are lucky that that they make the 3.00" version with such soft compound, because I think it is just right for an Ebike. I was reading the reviews on it and lots of those heavy motorcycles which use it complained that it wore out fast. But since our ebikes are so light and lacks the torque in the rear to spin the tire, they don't wear out in like 500 miles like a heavier motorcycle would, but last a good 2000+ miles.

I can measure my 2.75 17" if you need a width measurement on that.

I believe a user on the forum makes a modified genesis swingarm, you should see if that allows for a wider tire.

[][/url]


I would be curious for you to measure the 2.75-17 SR241 on your 1.6 wide frame as I am curious if there would be any width growth over the 1.40 wide rim I got my measurements from. I know its a PITA to do that though.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby litespeed » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:05 pm

I just measured my 17 x 3.00 and 19 x 2.75 both on 1.6 rims. The 3.00 is 3.322 inches and the 2.75 is 3.17 and that is knob to knob. As Offroader mentioned the front is a harder compound and the rear is softer. I find that on groves streets the soft rear tire has a bit of wander to it where as the front does not. I assume that is the reason for the harder compound. They both do well in the dirt both hard and soft. They also do surprisingly well in sand. They still wander but way less than bicycle tires I ridden the exact same spot with.

If I could have I wanted a 3.00 on the front and a 3.50 on the rear but they were not available in the size I needed. For that I needed a 18" rear and 21" front but I got such a great deal on this buy through I decided it was worth giving up the extra 1/2" rear and 1/4" front width.

Tom
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Rix » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:21 pm

Okay LS, not much difference width wise between the 1.40 and 1.60 wide rims. I know one guy running 2.75-19 on a 2.15 rim had 3.35" total tire width with the SR241. Thats a way wide rim compared to the 1.40 and 1.6" wide rims the majority are using.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby pkirkll » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:26 pm

Finally got some tires I think will cut the mustard in the desert---

The Bombolini's didnt work because they werent set up tubeless (they may have been OK once tubeless but,,)---

but these Terrene Wazias are good looking-- i will post more when i come back from my initial desert run...

I also put a bigger seat on it---
rsz_wazia_tires_mounted.jpg
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Rix » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:33 pm

pkirkll wrote:Finally got some tires I think will cut the mustard in the desert---

The Bombolini's didnt work because they werent set up tubeless (they may have been OK once tubeless but,,)---

but these Terrene Wazias are good looking-- i will post more when i come back from my initial desert run...

I also put a bigger seat on it---
rsz_wazia_tires_mounted.jpg


Very Nice ride, I am an hour away from you. would like to see this machine in person the next time in Reno.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Rix » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:38 pm

Just stumbled across this vendor. Looks like he stocks 19x1.6 and 17x1.6 rims laced to 20mmx110mm DH hubs. https://electricrt.myshopify.com/collec ... ont-wheels. Don't know anything about this company though. Has anyone had any experience?
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Lurkin » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:56 pm

Thats Forum Member evolutiongts's site I think, based on: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=85812
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Rix » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:51 pm

Lurkin wrote:Thats Forum Member evolutiongts's site I think, based on: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=85812

Thanks Lurkin, that does look like the same work.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby chucho » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:20 am

Ive been looking what other alternatives we have to shinko are out there for 19" wheels.
I have found : (not counting the veeruber)

*Maxxis M-7305
*Maxxis Maxxcross Desert ITM-7305D
*Mitas C-18

Any of you have used any of them?

I have never used a Mitas tyre and Maxxis is only known in europe for bicycle tyres so i dont really know if you guys use them in USA.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby brumbrum » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:49 pm

chucho wrote:Ive been looking what other alternatives we have to shinko are out there for 19" wheels.
I have found : (not counting the veeruber)

*Maxxis M-7305
*Maxxis Maxxcross Desert ITM-7305D
*Mitas C-18

Any of you have used any of them?

I have never used a Mitas tyre and Maxxis is only known in europe for bicycle tyres so i dont really know if you guys use them in USA.



Interesting finds, the maxxis M7304 and 05 are 2 ply tyres which would make them relatively light.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby brumbrum » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:19 am

chucho wrote:Ive been looking what other alternatives we have to shinko are out there for 19" wheels.
I have found : (not counting the veeruber)

*Maxxis M-7305
*Maxxis Maxxcross Desert ITM-7305D
*Mitas C-18

Any of you have used any of them?

I have never used a Mitas tyre and Maxxis is only known in europe for bicycle tyres so i dont really know if you guys use them in USA.


Btw, maxxis is the international name for the Taiwanese company Chen Shin Tyres(CST).
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Baron » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:06 pm

Back again trying to fit a 17x3.00 shinko 241 into my genesis v2100. I must have measured the bottom part of the swingarm wrong because there's only about 1mm clearance on both sides on the swingarm.

the upper part of the linkage (the part where I grinded off the v-brakes) is better with about 3mm clearance on each side of the tire.

The tire rolls fine and I don't hear any rubbing. But it is damn close..only about 1mm clearance. These pics are taken without washers on the inside of the dropouts. I might try to squeeze in a 7-speed freewheel, so might need an extra washer on that side. Just tested the tire clearance with 2mm washers on both sides and it seems to have helped a little...

The wheel is built pretty stiff, 17" moped rim with 10awg spokes, so I don't think it will flex too much?

How much clearance should I have? I am thinking about carefully dremeling/grinding the frame where the tire is close, and/or doing the same to the tire knobs. the swingarm tubing is like 1/16" thick

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby Rix » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:29 pm

The wheel is built pretty stiff, 17" moped rim with 10awg spokes, so I don't think it will flex too much?


Are you being sarcastic? No $h!t it wont flex too much. BTW, kick a$$ build, I like it.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby cal3thousand » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:50 pm

Rix wrote:Just stumbled across this vendor. Looks like he stocks 19x1.6 and 17x1.6 rims laced to 20mmx110mm DH hubs. https://electricrt.myshopify.com/collec ... ont-wheels. Don't know anything about this company though. Has anyone had any experience?


I personally know Alan, the owner. He's a good guy, located in LA. One man operation at the moment. He's active on ES Facebook if you want to chat him up.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Postby litespeed » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:56 pm

He/they built my wheels! Excellent job in my opinion.

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