Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

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Altair
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Altair » Oct 06, 2017 5:46 pm

With these power levels, it looks like they're targeting the motorcycle business.
Are they going to abandon the bicycle users ? :)

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 07, 2017 1:40 am

From what it says the big controller will be somewhere 20kw without extra cooling solutions. This is not bad for an ebike user that has the new mxus 5k turbo motor for example. It will work well with a 3-4kWh battery pack.

Lets hope they will be really waterproof, stable & reliable. This is where they will win the game.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Quokka » Oct 07, 2017 2:30 am

Damn, those are serious numbers for the new units. Hope they can make them waterproof
Qulbix Q76R+ QS205+MaxE

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 07, 2017 6:12 am

Some of you may remember the LS bug that allows bypassing the amps limit. I used it previously and it worked as expected with the amps being pegged to the set limit on the LS Amps limit setting rather than the profile/controller max limits.

Well today I gave it another try on my current Mini-E and the bike seemed to pull extremely hard (harder than it ever has before) before cutting out. I tried reducing the LS Amps limit, but it made no difference. Then I happened to look down at the screen while it was pulling hard and saw the amps hit, 100A...110A...120A, before it cut-out again. It seems the LS Amps limit was being ignored, and there was effectively no amps limit. I suspect the cut-out was the controller thermal protections kicking in as the Mosfets temp shot through the roof.
This was the end result:
Image
That is 9.1KW on a MINI-E!
My controller is fine, and thankfully nothing blew, but just a warning to others using or playing around with the LS Amps hack, as it could backfire with no Amps limit.

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Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled Leaf motor @ 5KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. Battery = 20AH, 72V LiPo.
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Altair
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Altair » Oct 07, 2017 7:45 am

No, I don't remember that LS hack.
I did a search on it but didn't get any results.
Could you please describe it quickly, it might solve the thing I hate the most about the Adaptto, namely the lack of torque at low RPM.
That rising torque curve with RPM is not fun at all, and gets dangerous if you crank up the amps in the hope of getting more torque at startup.
Note to Adaptto: Torque should be directly proportional to throttle position, and should be independent of RPM!

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 08, 2017 3:34 am

Altair wrote:No, I don't remember that LS hack.
I did a search on it but didn't get any results.
Could you please describe it quickly, it might solve the thing I hate the most about the Adaptto, namely the lack of torque at low RPM.
Well it still doesn't give you all that power off the line, but it ramps up pretty quick.

To exploit it you just go into the Traction settings, set the LS speed start to 00Kph, HS start to 100kph (or whatever speed you'll never reach) and turn LS Enable to ON. It used to be the case that the amps would be limited to the LS Amps limit, but as described, that doesn't seem to be the case any more, so use with caution.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled Leaf motor @ 5KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. Battery = 20AH, 72V LiPo.
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - Golden motor, 6Fet Infineon, 20AH 12S LiPo, with on-board solar charging.

BLAKE'S BUILDS - The stuff I make and modify.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Altair » Oct 08, 2017 7:19 am

Thanks!
I'll experiment progressively with it so I don't get into thermal cutout.
I'm also running a Mini-E.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 08, 2017 11:17 pm

Hey people! Would you still recommend a Max-E for a 10kw build or would you go with something else like a Kelly or Powervelocity? If the Max-E had no warranty would that matter?

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Allex » Oct 11, 2017 4:02 am

Chek out the bike Adaptto is testing their new controller on. They had this thing for years.

http://thsuptech.com/products/electrobike/
2.jpg
2.jpg (149.58 KiB) Viewed 643 times
Thats actually a modified hub motor.
Screen Shot 2017-10-11 at 11.05.37.jpg
Some interesting stuff in here too, dont know if Adaptto though
https://www.instagram.com/thsuptech/

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 11, 2017 7:07 am

Nice ! Can't wait to know more about what's next !

I have a question for those of you who run an MXUS 3k 3t with a Max E (mine is 10kw max, old version) : in your experience, how much batt and phase amps can the mxus 3k 3t REALLY take as a peak ? I mean starting how much watts will it be stupid to throw more from the battery ?

I have FF and double heatsink and a quite big air deflector onboard. The positive aspect is that it's perfectly cooled at high speed(105° stable at 100 Kmh on more than 40 km) !!!!

Image

But still overheating too often when going uphill or under 70 Kmh in a trafic jam slalom style. Rear motor goes over 120°

BTW it's a 2wd config. Front 3t is always under 80° with a 90 amps battery / 250 amps phase limit (9kw peaks from an old 20s 9p). Rear 3t sees the adaptto running at its maximum power : 132 / 344 (11kw peaks from 20s 19p of panasonic PF)

Image

I'd like like to check if I have a problem with my rear motor settings, other than a poor choice of windings.

Angle corr -11°, OVS is at 1 on the rear, IND at 590 us, pwr timing at 1.2. Is there for example a batt / phase ratio that I have to respect ? Keep batt at max and reduce phase ? Reduce both ?

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 12, 2017 1:16 pm

csc wrote:Nice ! Can't wait to know more about what's next !

I have a question for those of you who run an MXUS 3k 3t with a Max E (mine is 10kw max, old version) : in your experience, how much batt and phase amps can the mxus 3k 3t REALLY take as a peak ? I mean starting how much watts will it be stupid to throw more from the battery ?

I have FF and double heatsink and a quite big air deflector onboard. The positive aspect is that it's perfectly cooled at high speed(105° stable at 100 Kmh on more than 40 km) !!!!

Image

But still overheating too often when going uphill or under 70 Kmh in a trafic jam slalom style. Rear motor goes over 120°

BTW it's a 2wd config. Front 3t is always under 80° with a 90 amps battery / 250 amps phase limit (9kw peaks from an old 20s 9p). Rear 3t sees the adaptto running at its maximum power : 132 / 344 (11kw peaks from 20s 19p of panasonic PF)

Image

I'd like like to check if I have a problem with my rear motor settings, other than a poor choice of windings.

Angle corr -11°, OVS is at 1 on the rear, IND at 590 us, pwr timing at 1.2. Is there for example a batt / phase ratio that I have to respect ? Keep batt at max and reduce phase ? Reduce both ?
Your angle correction should be wrong.
Mine is -0.49 and a friend of mine has -0.69
By the way you should reduce the power of your rear motor, if you have two wheel motor system you don't really need so much power. My mxus with 9KW of peak power with FF and two hubsinks overheats if I go 75km/h for about 25 minutes.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 12, 2017 1:21 pm

Allex wrote:Chek out the bike Adaptto is testing their new controller on. They had this thing for years.

http://thsuptech.com/products/electrobike/
2.jpg
Thats actually a modified hub motor.
Screen Shot 2017-10-11 at 11.05.37.jpg
Some interesting stuff in here too, dont know if Adaptto though
https://www.instagram.com/thsuptech/
WOW!

With this machine you can go to school like a gentleman!

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 12, 2017 1:50 pm

Thanks Icherouveim, you confirm that you have a 3 t ?

Autodetect initially gave me your value of -0.49 but manual tuning with Doctorbass style, hearing to the noise and checking power consumption, led me to -11°...

I'll give it a try tomorrow

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 12, 2017 2:04 pm

I have 4T motor but I think it doesn't matter. This setting corrects the wrong position of the hall sensors so -11 seems to be too way off.
I'm not professional but my experience says that correct values should be somewhere between -3 +3.
My last motors were working very well somewhere close to 0 and when I was testing for example at -7 the motor was overheating too fast.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Merlin » Oct 12, 2017 6:28 pm

not really... -11 could be possible....
had also some v3s with this value.
some auto detects shoot out a -9 and i switched them to -11 because less amps used, less vibration...more silent.

thats the problem with this adaptto stuff. Iam not happy with their suppot at all, not happy with the lazy f**k ass marketing and infos....
but i havent a real problem since 10.000km on 3 bikes. too bad, no stuff on the market the usabilty of BMS, charging, size, power.
......and display (ya right just joking ABOUT THIS F**CK CALCULATOR DISPLAY WHERE I NEED GLASSES TO READIT!!!!!) :lol:

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 13, 2017 3:00 am

Hey guys, what do you think of this?

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=91017

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 14, 2017 3:37 am

Merlin, Icherouveim : funny

Autodetect now sets the angle at... -12.5 !!!!!!!

I'll today try the options that I considered not to be the good ones : low ind, high ovs, angle corr near 0 etc. There must be an answer somewhere !!!!!

cricket Swe : nano effects on the long term are unknown, i'll personnally wait a few decades before using some

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 14, 2017 7:54 am

csc wrote:Merlin, Icherouveim : funny

Autodetect now sets the angle at... -12.5 !!!!!!!

I'll today try the options that I considered not to be the good ones : low ind, high ovs, angle corr near 0 etc. There must be an answer somewhere !!!!!

cricket Swe : nano effects on the long term are unknown, i'll personnally wait a few decades before using some
I will tell you what happened 5 days ago.

Finally Autodetect function is very sensitive.
I could not even finish the process successfully and when it was working only 1 time of 10, it was giving me completely wrong values. I was thinking what is the problem why it doesn't work with my motor? why? What do I do wrong?
Finally Ive found what the problem was after 5 months!

It seems my shimano 6 speed freewheel was braking a little bit the wheel so I've removed the chain and the derailleur temporarily and autodect function was working so smooth and fine for the first time! The values were completely different.

With the chain on I was getting -6 -8 corr angle without chain I have my correct value -0.49
Last edited by icherouveim on Oct 14, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 14, 2017 8:10 am

Interesting !!! I have to check that !!! I'll remove the brakes too.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 14, 2017 1:28 pm

Checked with no chain nor brakes : now autodetect confirms a -11° angle corr + a 590 us ind timing, which is exactly my previous manual tuning findings (mxus 3k 3t).

Also did a few 40 km with my girlfriend sitting behind with ovs 0.

Around 0 angle corr : no go
Ind timing below 400 : no go

In both cases saturation is immediate

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 14, 2017 2:54 pm

csc wrote:Checked with no chain nor brakes : now autodetect confirms a -11° angle corr + a 590 us ind timing, which is exactly my previous manual tuning findings (mxus 3k 3t).

Also did a few 40 km with my girlfriend sitting behind with ovs 0.

Around 0 angle corr : no go
Ind timing below 400 : no go

In both cases saturation is immediate
So was it overheating a lot with around 0 angle corr?
Do you always test the bike with a second person? Normally ebikes are for one person only, the additional weight doesn't help.

So in this case you can keep the last autodect settings and just reduce the power for example: 100 battery amps 270 phase amps and you see.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 14, 2017 3:10 pm

icherouveim wrote:So was it overheating a lot with around 0 angle corr ?
yes. Awful

The girlfriend trick is a good uphill anticipation. Then you have to check uphill with the girlfriend, in my sick mind.

Rather than lowering the power, I'll change the front and rear motors I think. 2x3t was a mistake with my 108 kilos bike.

PS : my girlfriend often drives the bike when I'm sitting behind !

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Oct 15, 2017 7:42 am

csc wrote:
icherouveim wrote:So was it overheating a lot with around 0 angle corr ?
yes. Awful

The girlfriend trick is a good uphill anticipation. Then you have to check uphill with the girlfriend, in my sick mind.

Rather than lowering the power, I'll change the front and rear motors I think. 2x3t was a mistake with my 108 kilos bike.

PS : my girlfriend often drives the bike when I'm sitting behind !
Ι wish I had 3T MXUS instead of 4T. The 4T gives good acceleration after 50km/h only with OVS 5-6 and very high PWR tim setting 1.59. That means the efficiency goes down and the motor overheats faster even when I go only 75km/h for 20-25 minutes. With OVS 0 the top speed is only 62km/h and the accelation after 45km/h is terrible.

I think if you want to maintain such high speeds 100km/h is to go for a bigger rear motor as long as your frame has wide enough dropouts to support it. Think about a qs motor or the new mxus 5k, for me a 5k is the next candidate. 3K motor is good but it overheats at some point when you travel with more than 65km/h for long time.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 15, 2017 1:38 pm

Wel well well. We shall maybe PM about a swap ?!!!!

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by csc » Oct 15, 2017 2:00 pm

On Justin's hub cooling thread I had a digression about adaptto tuning : better here...

I'll sum up the results of this "investigation" in the Adaptto fine tuning thread, when I'm sure not to write crap.
litespeed wrote:
csc wrote:Litespeed : 102 kmh at OVS 0 but... ind timing 590 us and angle corr -11°. I'll be testing this afternoon a frankly lower ind + frankly bigger ovs, just to see what happens.

What are your Ind timing and angle corr values with the 3.5t ? To the others : sorry for not being in the adaptto thread but I would'nt like to miss the answer?
Here you go.

Image

Hope you get it figured out....if it were me I would record all the settings, jack the bike up and try tuning it again Dr. Bass style just to be sure all is the best it can be.

Tom
Thanks Litespeed ! The -11° angle corr is now confirmed for me as well as the 590 us ind timing. It's the most efficient basis for my rear Mxus 3k 3t (though I feel a bit uncomfortable these days when I say that I found a DEFINITIVE way of running cooler).

After that basic setting, PWR and OVS increase heat and speed in a quite logical way.

My current mindspirit is that a rear 5k, 4t or 3t in a 19"wheel, is the next step. I wish I was able to calculate if a 5k 3t in a 19" moto rim has enough torque to move a total of 250 kilos on a 7% road uphill.

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