Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

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bowers
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Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by bowers » Jan 23, 2018 5:10 pm

Has any of you come up with a simple solution for capping the bike to legal levels in case of running into cops?

I'm using an Adaptto setup and it would have been great to be able to have it start up locked to "eco" mode. I don't think the software allows this, but... would have been great ;) If you see a bad situation, turn the bike off and on again and then it's stuck to 250w / 25km/h "eco" program unless you unlock with a password.

Anyone found some good way to achieve something like this?

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by amberwolf » Jan 24, 2018 2:52 am

There's a lot of ways that've been discussed over the years, but there's no easy way to just list them all in a quick single search.

One possible search term set is "legal mode"; there's probably others but this one does find some of the info.

Some of these posts
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search
have info on that (not all are relevant.

A listing by topic is shorter, but harder to find the specific info in some of the threads
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search

A search only in first post narrows it down a lot but leaves out a lot of useful info, and as before, not everything is relevant.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by dogman dan » Jan 24, 2018 8:15 am

By the time you need it, you are already hosed. You rode wrong, he saw it. Doesn't matter. Ride so you don't talk to cops.

If cops know you, you are already screwed. I've been there, for a solid decade I had to drive absolutely perfect.

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 24, 2018 8:28 am

Listen to the dogman...

It's hard to argue with a police officer that pulled you over for doing 40-MPH (64-km/h) and you weren't pedaling. That being said...

The one thing a stealth build has going for it when you are using electric power is...volts are deceiving. By that I mean...A small motor using high volts "looks like" there's no way it can be powerful.

The other important factor concerning total power and a skewed perception for casual bystanders is...spreading out the copper mass. By that I mean, build up a 2WD with the front motor being fairly small, and the rear motor being hidden behind saddlebags. Perhaps a Q100H on the front (or a Bafang), and MAC/BMC on the rear?

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by Papa » Jan 24, 2018 9:51 am

bowers wrote:
Jan 23, 2018 5:10 pm
Has any of you come up with a simple solution for capping the bike to legal levels in case of running into cops?
I'm not one to advocate ignorant lawlessness. However, I do encourage restraint to avoid visable "PC"... or typically referred to as, Probable Cause. In layman's terms... don't give a LEO an obvious reason to detain you - which, by law, he is usually required to have.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by dogman dan » Jan 25, 2018 9:15 am

If you must, do it with a three speed switch. rig up a secret switch. It will not look like a switch.

Wire up some way that it defaults to low speed if you pull the plug. the plug will be a tiny jumper wire, could literally be a piece of bread wrapper tie. yank it out as the cop is getting out of the car, and all he sees is a slow bike.

Wont help if he saw you going 40 mph of course, but if the cops are that big a dicks where you are, you can ride in legal mode where you have to, then use a secret switch to engage high power for off road, or out of town.

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by 2WheelsMovesTheSoul » Jan 25, 2018 12:27 pm

If you got a 2 or 3 speed option, you can setup the high speed on some sort of remote switch. Like, off the bike, no physical switch kinda hidden, I use a Bluetooth relay module for this exact purpose.

I have the controllers high & low speed wire hooked up to a 3 position switch.

When on low or 1, the switch sends a thumb throttle signal and 12v on the low speed wire back to the motor controller (bike is then limited to 20mph)

When on normal or 2, the switch sends a PAS signal & controller reverts to "normal" speed (limited to 28mph)

When on high or 3, the switch sends a thumb throttle signal & controller remains on "normal" speed (limited to 28mph) this is bit of a dummy switch as it only selects throttle input until BT sends some special sauce. Looks the part though.

To actually use the high speed function, I have a Bluetooth relay module wired to the "ignition" side that get powered up with the regular on/off key. Once the bikes "ignition" circuit is on and the module gets 5v power, I pair up my phone, tap a button on the app and the high speed wire gets juice and overrides all previous switches. Controller is now unregulated, front brake input is also bypassed and uses the thumb throttle exclusively. If power to the BT relay module is interrupted, like... key off then back on or tap the BT off, all High Speed circuits collapse and the bike returns to "normal".

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by fechter » Jan 25, 2018 1:45 pm

I have a small 3 speed switch located under the controller, which is under the rear rack. If someone really looked carefully, they would find it though. I also thought about a switch that uses something like a grenade pin to activate it. Pull the pin and it goes to speed 1. Only a tiny pin hole visible on the outside.

The bluetooth thing sounds like a good solution too.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by flat tire » Jan 26, 2018 12:42 pm

I made a thread about this a while ago, the problem is by the time a cop actually pulls you over you're already done if he saw you going "too fast." He's not gonna hop on your bike and verify it only goes 20 or whatever. And if he doesn't like the way your bike looks, or something, flicking a switch won't save you from that ticket or confiscation either. In the remote case they confiscated your bike and then examined it, finding a switch the rider can use while underway, they would err on the side of the bike being illegal

So, at this point, what's the reason for wanting a switch?

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by SlowCo » Jan 26, 2018 1:44 pm

A reed switch in the throttle wire with a small magnet on a string stuck to it to get full power. Pull the magnet and "lose it" so the reed switch opens and only 10-25% of the power is available...

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by 12-C » Jan 27, 2018 1:17 am

lol you guys are so worried about the law.

Firstly, ride within reason and respect. If you get spotted having fun where you are literally no harm to anyone, and the cop is a dick, then you need to be one too.

Wear a full face and take a path that they can't follow.... hahah

Not that condone it but these laws are getting to be a bit ridiculous.... There comes a point where laws are not for public good but for control and equally despicable.... revenue....

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by gogo » Jan 27, 2018 9:44 am

Papa wrote:
Jan 24, 2018 9:51 am
bowers wrote:
Jan 23, 2018 5:10 pm
Has any of you come up with a simple solution for capping the bike to legal levels in case of running into cops?
I'm not one to advocate ignorant lawlessness. However, I do encourage restraint to avoid visable "PC"... or typically referred to as, Probable Cause. In layman's terms... don't give a LEO an obvious reason to detain you - which, by law, he is usually required to have.
Actually, its the lower standard of 'reasonable suspicion' for detainment, and PC to arrest. I got pulled over because I didn't put my foot down when I stopped at a stop sign. I'm sure a judge would of thrown out any evidence from a search, but cops can get away with such detainments. You can beat the rap, but you'll still take the ride.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Jan 27, 2018 12:00 pm

gogo wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 9:44 am

Actually, its the lower standard of 'reasonable suspicion' for detainment, and PC to arrest. I got pulled over because I didn't put my foot down when I stopped at a stop sign. I'm sure a judge would of thrown out any evidence from a search, but cops can get away with such detainments. You can beat the rap, but you'll still take the ride.
That's gotta be pretty clearly the exception. From what I've seen and heard, most cops could care less about bikes and e-bikes unless they are doing something that they perceive as being unsafe. And I don't know about other states, but here the Phoenix area, it seems like most cops don't really understand the bike/e-bike/moped/motorcycle distinctions and laws. Heck, the Tucson Police Department has put out a PDF flyer with misinformation about what constitutes a legal e-bike. So at least here, that's the main worry. That the cop will try to enforce the wrong law because he doesn't really know the law. For Instance I've read about area e-bikers who have those e-bikes that look like scooters getting pulled over for not being registered mopeds. The logic is simple. It looks like a moped, so it should be registered as one. I think perception is a big deal with e-bikes.

If you look and act like a regular bicycle, you probably won't be noticed and will probably be able to bend the rules a bit.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by bowers » Jan 27, 2018 12:09 pm

Yeah... It's probably a little different from place to place. After over 1000 miles on the bike I've still not been pulled over, but... The way it works here, it's much more important to beat the rap than to not take the ride. I don't care about loosing a few hours of arguing etc if I manage to get pulled over or something. I can buy another bike also, no worries... However, if the bike is capable of doing 60kmh when they stop me (assuming they dont actually see me) it will be trialed as driving a motorbike of road without license etc. And for that they take your car license ;)

But... If the bike is incapable of doing more than 25kmh even if the rest of the bike is illegal without PAS and with throttle it does not matter that much. They cannot charge you for driving a motor bike, only for cycling on a non-approved ebike. Whole different ballgame ;)

So... being able to quickly put the bike in "limp-mode" or something could be the difference between just paying a fine and being without a car for 1-2 years.

Cutting the throttle signal is not quite enough since the Adaptto clearly shows how much throttle is applied on the display.
If only the Adaptto had the possibility to lock the bike in ECO mode when it's turned on it would solve everything. You would just need to input a key sequence every time you turn it on to be able to use the 2 other power modes. Please Adaptto... Please ;)

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by Papa » Jan 27, 2018 1:39 pm

gogo wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 9:44 am
Papa wrote:
Jan 24, 2018 9:51 am
I'm not one to advocate ignorant lawlessness. However, I do encourage restraint to avoid visable "PC"... or typically referred to as, Probable Cause. In layman's terms... don't give a LEO an obvious reason to detain you - which, by law, he is usually required to have.
Actually, its the lower standard of 'reasonable suspicion' for detainment, and PC to arrest. I got pulled over because I didn't put my foot down when I stopped at a stop sign. I'm sure a judge would of thrown out any evidence from a search, but cops can get away with such detainments. You can beat the rap, but you'll still take the ride.
If "putting your foot down" is a statutory requirement, then the stop was based on PC. Here in southen ID, my P25 monitors LEO traffic. The ISP nor the TFCS will initiate a traffic stop sans PC.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Jan 27, 2018 2:30 pm

bowers wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 12:09 pm

So... being able to quickly put the bike in "limp-mode" or something could be the difference between just paying a fine and being without a car for 1-2 years.
Yep. Sounds like you are not in the U.S. If people put their country (and/or state) of residence in their sigs, it would help people understand the context in which questions are asked and answers are given.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by amberwolf » Jan 28, 2018 2:30 am

There is actually a profile field just for that information, called "location". ;)

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/ucp.php?i=376

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by bowers » Jan 28, 2018 4:40 am

Sorry, I've updated the location field now.

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by dogman dan » Jan 28, 2018 9:47 am

Sounds a little bit like you are fine as you are.

But look into if the addapto can support a three way switch. I may be wrong, but maybe your biggest problem is the nice display.

Secret jumper to engage full power that you can easily yank out still the best way to get it done while cops are looking at you.

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by izeman » Jan 28, 2018 2:16 pm

bowers wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 12:09 pm
... it will be trialed as driving a motorbike of road without license etc. And for that they take your car license ;)
are laws in norways really that hard? as i see it: riding a not registered bike = riding a motorcycle w/o license plates. that should result in a fine, but nothing more. unless you didn't cause an accident and have a valid motorcylcle license.
the disadvantage of the adapto is, that you can easily switch from one profile to the next. no way of locking it. no secret button sequence or something.
if the adapto can be programed on the fly via serial interface, you could use an arduino that injects appropriate code at startup if you don't press a special key during power up. something like that?

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 13, 2018 7:08 pm

Image

In this scenario I would set the max speed from 5 to 4 by quickly pressing the down button on lcd5 display. From there I will admit that they caught me on a coast after some inspired strong pedaling. In my case I actually can pedal faster then the ebikes 40k.

I will be challenging any (speed) tickets
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by DRMousseau » Feb 13, 2018 11:42 pm

I'm jus an ol' man on a bicycle, and otherwise appear as nothing more or nothing less.... although my great ease or lack of efforts and unusual "briskness" more often than not, does catch a bit of attention and turn heads should I pass closely by. But since I appear nothing like a moped, scooter, trailbike or anything unusual, most of the time, I catch little notice. The biggest exception is "urban" travel. That's where I'm most likely to stand out in relation to traffic about me,... brisk take-offs from stops, and occasionally cruzin' closely with 25-35mph traffic. OBVIOUSLY faster than a bike should be, and quite apparent to LEO, should I been within sight. Keeping a wary eye on traffic is more than enough to contend with, and occasional unmarked surprises are often,... well, SURPRISING, when your about to pass them by!
MOST of my travels are paved rural and/or suburban outskirts where traffic speed limits are over 35/45mph,... the ol' man on a cruiser is jus another bicycle along the road and hardly noticed.

But I gotta admit,... I've often thought of a radar detector as an option. In my "wintering" grounds, every state, county, and local vehicle of law enforcement runs radar CONTINUOUSLY! I won't speculate as to why, but it does provide a great "awareness" of presense, for motorists with detectors! In the rural and suburban skirts and even urban streets, I would "see" LEO far before I would be seen or noticed, with plenty of time to slow if necessary. In my "summering" grounds, LEO uses radar only while "hunting", still a need for some wariness then. But a detector is still a thought I might consider to trial a bit. Mostly to avoid the potential "speed" issue I have yet to contend with.

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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by eCue » Feb 14, 2018 12:38 am

Video evidence would be damming ... :oops:
If that's the case I will admit my error and pay the ticket
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Feb 14, 2018 1:32 pm

eCue wrote:
Feb 14, 2018 12:38 am
Video evidence would be damming ... :oops:
If that's the case I will admit my error and pay the ticket
The problem I see is that violations aren't necessarily punished as a speeding ticket. The citations can move into the category of operating an unlicensed motor vehicle and doing so without insurance and maybe even operating a motorcycle without the appropriate license.
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Re: Any good and simple "cop button" solutions?

Post by wturber » Feb 14, 2018 1:48 pm

eCue wrote:
Feb 14, 2018 12:38 am
Video evidence would be damming ... :oops:
If that's the case I will admit my error and pay the ticket
I haven't dug into this one and don't know what precipitated the stop, but this, IMO is the kind of thing to fear. I suspect a major factor in this is that his e-bike looks like a moped, not a conventional bicycle and probably how the guy behaved (not horribly, but openly critical during the stop.)

"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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