Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

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Crossman   100 µW

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Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by Crossman » Nov 12 2018 10:31am

I am thinking of using Nyon display with Intuvia controller. I am having that 414 error (bicycle not equipped to work with Nyon).

The difference between Nyon and Intuvia controllers is that Nyon controller has an additional joystick switch. I will need some help from tech savy people to bypass this error with minimum modification to intuvia controller.

1. Both controllers are simple switches. The joystick is redundant since Nyon has the same joystick on the display too. The only necessary buttons are + - which are used to change assist level and both controllers have it.

2. The controller communicates from the 3 gold plates pins on the intuvia/Nyon deck. Intuvia controller uses only the first 2 pins , bottom pin is not connected. Even if you cover the last pin Intuvia display will still work. From the pictures it seems Nyon controller uses all three pins. So I think probably the two controllers completely the same except the joystick switch and the additional 3rd pin connection.

3. In general how can a micro controller check if a switch is connected or not? Intuvia does not check anything but Nyon does(Tried it at the lbs, even when I am able to bypass the error it still does not let assist levels to be changed). I am thinking that maybe adding a resistor between the last 2 pins can fool the Display to bypass the error.





Please refrain from comments like "just buy the nyon controller". To be honest I don't want to pay $80+ for a simple switch that probably costs $3. Any oldschool cellular phone from the past 10 years had a complete keyboard and not to mention a complete phone for less than half of this price. Not to mention this controller is not even water/dust proof...
Attachments
bosch-control-unit-anthracite-for-intuvia-active-8715957366902-0-s.jpg
Intuvia
bosch-control-unit-anthracite-for-intuvia-active-8715957366902-0-s.jpg (5.68 KiB) Viewed 178 times
Joy Stick for Nyon Control-1500x700.jpg
Nyon

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by amberwolf » Nov 12 2018 11:07am

If you compare the complete wiring, components and PCBs for the two, you could change the one you have to be electrically the same as the other one, and if that's all the difference there is, it would work.

However, the controller (or display unit) almost certainly wouldn't simply detect whether a switch is present or not, and decide whether to work based on that.

What it does is communicate with the display unit in a certain way, and the display unit communicates with the controller in a certain way, and if they are different ways, then they dont' work together.

Even when displays and controllers look exactly the same, they may have very different programming, and may not be able to talk to each other.

Or they could talk to each other, but won't because their programming does not allow them to operate unless connected to their correct model-specific equipment. This sounds like the most likely scenario for what you are seeing.


You could use a serial "sniffer" setup to read the data streams, and see what's different between them (probably a header), and make a device to alter the difference to what the other device expects.

Crossman   100 µW

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Re: Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by Crossman » Nov 12 2018 11:40am

amberwolf wrote:
Nov 12 2018 11:07am
...

Or they could talk to each other, but won't because their programming does not allow them to operate unless connected to their correct model-specific equipment. This sounds like the most likely scenario for what you are seeing.


You could use a serial "sniffer" setup to read the data streams, and see what's different between them (probably a header), and make a device to alter the difference to what the other device expects.
Ok this makes sense, that was why I asked how it would be possible talk if it is just a switch. Btw below is what the Intuvia controller pcb looks like, unfortunately on the web I couldnt find a photo of Nyon's pcb.

In this image I am not seeing anything other than switches, resistors and diodes.

Now there are people who were able to use Nyon with intuvia controller but their bikes seems to be newer models. Maybe they are only manufacturing the new pcb and instead just switching the thumbstick cover and that is why newer intuvia controllers are working with both displays.
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Crossman   100 µW

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Re: Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by Crossman » Nov 13 2018 10:25am

Ok it seems the new controller works with the Old display (intuvia), button configurations are the same except the thumb stick (infor button becomes home). So it is safe to say the existing buttons have the same circuitry.

There are only two pins for those 4 buttons. Can someone enlighten me if there is a way to just detect those buttons as is? I suspect that the device is only checking if some pins are interconnected.

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Re: Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by amberwolf » Nov 13 2018 10:39am

To check that, you just measure resistances between every pin to every other pin.

To duplicate it, you would either add resistors or wires in series or parallel to the various pins (to duplicate connections) or cut traces (to duplicate opens). Keep in mind that whatever changes you make may also affect the functionality of the buttons themselves; you'd have to test them once it's working.

If there is no difference between pins on each device, then it's not detecting how many buttons, it has firmware and an MCU or some other type of device (serial EEPROM, etc) so controller and display / etc talk to each other, and then you'd have to reverse engineer and modify it.

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Re: Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by Crossman » Nov 13 2018 11:32am

amberwolf wrote:
Nov 13 2018 10:39am
To check that, you just measure resistances between every pin to every other pin.

To duplicate it, you would either add resistors or wires in series or parallel to the various pins (to duplicate connections) or cut traces (to duplicate opens). Keep in mind that whatever changes you make may also affect the functionality of the buttons themselves; you'd have to test them once it's working.

If there is no difference between pins on each device, then it's not detecting how many buttons, it has firmware and an MCU or some other type of device (serial EEPROM, etc) so controller and display / etc talk to each other, and then you'd have to reverse engineer and modify it.
Thanks,

In the picture I have posted I don't see and eprom(maybe I am not looking carefully). As you can see the difference is the new controller has all 3 pins connected the old one uses only 2 of those pins.

I had a similar idea, to measure the idle resistances between buttons and maybe just put a resistor to mimic that for the unconnected pin. I will try that.

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Re: Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by Wolfns » Nov 14 2018 4:27pm

Quite happy I found this topic. Just got a Nyon display that I found for a good price and I did not realize it requires a controller. I found the controller for 50eur but I paid that much for the display, so it would be great if I could make it work without buying anything else.
Will start working on it tomorrow...keep please updated on the progress and so will I..

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Re: Bosch Intuvia vs Nyon controller

Post by Wolfns » Dec 07 2018 11:08am

I had no luck with my attempts, so I bought the right controller... Good luck with yours

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