Ebike bike Wheel pulling to one side

I have a Golden Motor Ebike wheel, and I've had two different bike shops look @ it. Neither of them could stop the wheel 100% from wanting to pull to the one side. When I change the tire, I have to tighten the torque arm first, then that same side of the wheel, and only then can I tighten the side that wants to pull to the one side. I don't do it in that order, the wheel pulls too much. Having the bike upside down, it's mostly centered. It's only slightly off on the side. When I grab the spokes and pull in towards me a little bit, the wheel is 100% Centered.

Both Axles are flush in the drop outs, so I can rule that out. I'm wondering if the wheel was not dished correctly ?

What do you mean by "pulling to one side"?

Do you mean the bike drifts to taht side while riding because of the motor power?

Do you mean the wheel itself moves in the dropouts to that side?

The wheel will be centered as best as I can, and when I tighten it. The wheel will move towards the inside of the frame. The drive side of the axle will raise up a tiny bit. Also, when wheel is tightened on the frame. I can center it, simply by pulling on the spokes towards me. When I let go, the wheel goes back to the postion it was in.

Your frame is bent or your hub motor is bent/twisted. At what stage did this happening. From the very start, after certain incident etc?

Mywpn said:

Your frame is bent or your hub motor is bent/twisted. At what stage did this happening. From the very start, after certain incident etc?

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Straight out of the box, for the wheel. I had some loose spokes originally, least according to the bike shop. That bike shop and another tried to dish it, to get to stay center but couldn't get it perfect.

adamsavage79 said:

The wheel will be centered as best as I can, and when I tighten it. The wheel will move towards the inside of the frame.

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Which side does it move toward? (there are two "insides"--the left, and the right)

The drive side of the axle will raise up a tiny bit.

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Up as in toward the seat?

Also, when wheel is tightened on the frame. I can center it, simply by pulling on the spokes towards me. When I let go, the wheel goes back to the postion it was in.

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If you can pull enough on the spokes to pull teh whole wheel to the side, then the spokes are probably not tensioned sufficiently.

If you need to do this to center the wheel on the frame, then the wheel is not built right anyway--it needs to be dished so it centers the tire in the frame, assuming the frame is symmetrical. If it can't be dished correctly, then the spokes are the wrong lengths, and whichever side can't be tensioned enough needs to be shorter.


Which of the three things you described is what you mean by "Wheel pulling to one side", or "the wheel ... wanting to pull to the one side"?

The wheel is wanting to pull to the one side. The wheel is pulling to the LEFT towards the inner bottom frame. The axel will raise up a tiny bit, straight upwards towards the seat. Basically, when I stand behind the wheel, and look down. The wheel is closer to the bottom left of the frame. If that's not clear enough, I can just take a picture to show what I mean.

The problem is the way you've worded it is confusing (at least to me, probably to others).

The phrase "wanting to pull", etc, implies the wheel is actually moving to one side after it's fixed in place, just sitting there not being touched. Or that it is causing the bike to move to one side while riding.

What it sounds like is actually happening is that the wheel is simply not centered on the axle shoulders. It's not "pulling" to one side, its' just simply off-center.

If it is something that would be obvious enough to see in a picture, then it must be pretty badly off-center. That is probably a dishing problem, and as noted if it can't be dished rigth you need shorter spokes on the side you need it to be moved toward.


I think you may also have a second problem, that is causing the axle shift out of the dropout. That could be damage to the dropout or the axle shoulder, or simply the design of the dropout not being parallel to the shoulder, so as it's tightened it pushes the axle out.

FWIW, if the axle can move in the dropout after it's tightened, it's not actually tight enough.

If instead the problem si that the axle is moving upward in the dropout, then it's not *in* the dropout correctly to start with, and needs to be fully fitted into it first.


If neither of these is the problem, then I'd have to say the problem description(s) are not adequate, and you'll need pictures that clearly show the issue(s).

Here is a picture of the wheel, looking down at it. The red arrow is pointing at where the wheel, when tightened is closer to the frame ?

I'm not sure how to word this in a way you will understand. The wheel is closer to the frame on the left side. I have more of a gap between the frame and the wheel on the right, vs the left.

adamsavage79 said:

The wheel is closer to the frame on the left side. I have more of a gap between the frame and the wheel on the right, vs the left.

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If it's the same gap as you rotate the wheel around, then the wheel is at least true.

But it is not dished correctly.

If it can't be dished to be centered, then the spokes on the side farther from the frame are too long, and need to be replaced with shorter ones. (or they need to be rethreaded to give enough threaded portion for the nipples to tighten further on the spoke, to dish it where you want it.)


Alternately, you could add spacer washer(s) to the axle on the side of the frame that it is closer to. If you have to use a lot of spacers, it may require spreading the dropouts apart a bit.



BTW: is the gap on the left side the same at the chainstay as it is at the seatstay, relative to the gap on the right side?

I ask because if the frame is twisted, or there is a problem with the axle seating in the dropouts evenly, then this will not be the case, and may indicate it is not a dishing problem but a fit problem.

adamsavage79 said:

Here is a picture of the wheel, looking down at it. The red arrow is pointing at where the wheel, when tightened is closer to the frame ?

I'm not sure how to word this in a way you will understand. The wheel is closer to the frame on the left side. I have more of a gap between the frame and the wheel on the right, vs the left.


20190518_233522 (Large).jpg

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Is the gap narrower on the seat stay as well? If it's a dishing problem, then both the chain stay and seat stay gaps would be similarly narrow on the same side.

My roommate is in the Living room so I used my phone light to look, but it does seem like it's centered on the seat stay. I will try to measure it tomorrow to know for sure. This would indicated a wheel dishing problem if it's centered on the seat stay. I have spare spokes and nipples. I can get more for that wheel if needed as well.

adamsavage79 said:

I have a Golden Motor Ebike wheel, and I've had two different bike shops look @ it. Neither of them could stop the wheel 100% from wanting to pull to the one side. When I change the tire, I have to tighten the torque arm first, then that same side of the wheel, and only then can I tighten the side that wants to pull to the one side.

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It sounds like your frame dropouts are not correctly aligned, or else your axle nuts aren't square to the axis of the thread. A bike shop can fix the former problem; replacing the nuts with better items can fix the latter.

adamsavage79 said:

My roommate is in the Living room so I used my phone light to look, but it does seem like it's centered on the seat stay. I will try to measure it tomorrow to know for sure. This would indicated a wheel dishing problem if it's centered on the seat stay.

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No.

If it is centered on either set of stays, but not on the other, and stays that way as the wheel is rotated, it is either a frame problem or the axle is not correctly mounted in the dropouts.

If it changes as it rotates, then the wheel is not true, and should be trued before you continue.


Only if the relative gap is smaller on the same side of *both* sets of stays does it mean it is a dishing problem.

I'm going to put a tire and tube on the original bike wheel and see if it centers tomorrow. I also wondered when I had to file down the drop outs to fit the axle, that the sides are not even ? If that makes any sense ? Example, say I filed SIDE A by 2mm and I filed SIDE B by 2.2mm ?

It is possible that even a small difference at the axle could result in what looks like a significant difference at the tire, and it would also explain why the spacing is closer to equal at the seatstays and more unequal at the chainstays, assuming the filing you refer to is at the flats of the dropouts, and not the rounded part the axle seats into at the top (for vertical dropouts).


If instead the filing was done only at the rounded part the axle seats into, and not the flat area, then it would only affect teh chainstay spacing to wheel if the rounded part is at the front, for horizontal dropouts. If they're vertical, it wouldn't affect the chainstay spacing to wheel, but would affect the seatstay spacing to wheel, and the rack supports above the dropouts to the wheel.

FWIW, having to expand the flat part of the dropout isnt' normally needed, and enlarging by anything in the range of 2mm there would make an axle no longer be able to seat at a predictable angle to the frame.

(the flat part of the motor axle should be 10mm, the same width the dropouts should have started at, for most rear axles on most bike frames I've dealt with, that use regular threaded axles. For frames that use QR axles, they *might* be only 9mm, and might need a 1mm expansion, but there's usually some slop, and I've only had to remove the *paint* on the frame to fix the flat area clearance on most of the stuff I've stuck a hubmotor in. )

Having to expand the rounded part of the dropout by 2mm or more is not uncommon, however--it depends on the axle diameter of the threaded part of the axle (not the flats).

If the filing was uneven, then you can still make the axle even, simply by not pushing it all the way into the too-far-filed side. You can use the opening of the dropout to judge if the axle is seated evenly in each side, if they are symmetricaly designed. If not, you'd need another reference point that *is* symmetrical.

Or use the symmetrical reference point to correct the filing of each to make them even, and thus remove the problem.

adamsavage79 said:

The wheel will be centered as best as I can, and when I tighten it. The wheel will move towards the inside of the frame. The drive side of the axle will raise up a tiny bit. Also, when wheel is tightened on the frame.

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Sounds like that dropout is bent.

Also, did you stretch the frame to get the wheel to fit?

Is the slot in the derailleur hanger on the right side of the frame even with the bottom of the dropout slot? Sometimes that's 1-2mm too high, and needs to be filed down even. Also, with many ebike axles being 2 mm thicker (in the oblong dimension) than a regular bike axle, some dropouts can benefit from a little (careful) filing of the slot too.

I used to always have your problem with the regular bike wheels fitting in crooked on the back. Made it terrible to use with rim brakes. Some of it was bad dishing. Some was from the wheel not being true. Also the derailleur irregularity. After I learned how to straighten wheels, dish them, etc, and now all my bike wheels spin true.

Most ebike rims are double wall, so there is plenty of room to add washers (if you can fin them small enough to go into the hole) if the spokes are too long.

So it would seem I have problems with the frame itself, and not the wheel. I put on the original wheel and even that will not sit centerted. Below you will see what it looks like, upside down.

adamsavage79 said:

So it would seem I have problems with the frame itself, and not the wheel. I put on the original wheel and even that will not sit centerted. Below you will see what it looks like, upside down.

20190519_125934 (Large).jpg

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Put your wheel in both ways (correctly, and then backwards). If the misalignment is on the same side, your frame is the problem. If the misalignment is on the opposite side when the wheel is flipped around, the problem is in the wheel.

Chinese hub motor wheels are far more suspect than even low quality frames.

I will try that later tonight. Seeing as the original wheel doesn't seem to be centered, than I'm guessing it's the frame ?

adamsavage79 said:

I will try that later tonight. Seeing as the original wheel doesn't seem to be centered, than I'm guessing it's the frame ?

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That's a poor assumption. I have to recenter wheels on brand new bikes all the time.

I'm getting pretty good at taking the wheel off and putting it back on. I can do it in under 10 minutes now. This includes the time it takes to get the tools, put it back on. Put more air in and tools are put back. While I have the wheel off later on, is there anything you would like me to check, vs me taking the wheel on and off ?

I should add that when I push inwards on the wheel with my foot while I tighten it. I can get it to stay away from the frame a little more.

You can check the frame alignment with some string and a ruler. Scroll down to the bottom of this article from Sheldon Brown to read how:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

I put the wheel on the wrong way, and this time it was against the frame on the same side. However, with the original wheel. Regardless of which way I put it on. The wheel stays centered.

I put another space on the wheel, to push it away from the frame. When I tightened the wheel, it of course pulled to the one side yet again..