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DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 8:21am
by agniusm
Anyone done or seen diy 5k throttle? Looking to make one and need reference. Pots are cheap, throttles are not so i thought why not build one. I need it for lawn mower ehich has cable throttle.
I do have 3d printers so its easy to make something.
Which pot do i need? I bought linear motion 10K pot with 45mm of travel. My cable moves 24.5mm so it should cover my range. Any ideas?

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 8:36am
by stan.distortion
Imo you'd be better avoiding pots, they'll last for a while but at some point they'll inevitably ware out. Throttle position sensors used to be a nightmare on cars, always giving trouble when they where resistance based. These days they're almost always done with hall sensors.

They're no more expensive than pots, often cheaper but don't usually give 0V to input voltage as their output, usually something more like 1-3.5v for a 5v supply but all that's needed is a sensor and a moving magnet. Any kind of movement that effects the field strength or direction, rotating so the field varies between in line with the sensor and at some angle under 90 degrees to the sensor is fine (or over 90, some vary their output in both directions), as is moving the magnet towards and away from the sensor.

A few of examples:
https://www.simpits.org/geneb/?p=299
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/u ... ype/thread
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/el ... ffect.html

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 9:15am
by DanGT86
I thought the same thing about throttle position sensors being hall sensors until someone corrected me on a forum. Apparently they are mostly pots and reliable for millions of cycles. They also aren't as vulnerable to EMF. I would look at an automotive TPS for cost and waterproofing. I'd grab one from a salvage yard possibly with the whole throttle body its mounted to. You could use the original throttle body to reverse engineer the linkage and return spring pretty easily or just cut the needed parts off and mount them to your machine.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 9:48am
by stan.distortion
That would make sense, I'd stripped a couple recently and they where both hall and I'd assumed it was now the industry standard but I'm also having a sensor issue on an EFI system (megasquirt). Took ages to track down, no engine position signal while cranking, turns out the cause is noise from an almost worn out starter motor, ie. EMF. Good point on using the whole throttle body, throttle cable linkage and everything in one handy (and durable) unit.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 10:35am
by spinningmagnets
Fechter published a circuit a few years ago

"Throttle Smoother 3.0 - Linear Ramp Circuit"
viewtopic.php?t=47843#p708583

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 3:56pm
by MJSfoto1956
I'm ditching the cheap, twitchy hall throttle that came with my Chinese electric scooter/moped in favor of a remote POT activate by a good-old, tried-and-true throttle cable. I've ordered one of these from AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electri ... 09008.html. When it comes in, I'll report back.

Image

M

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 4:21pm
by agniusm
Ok, will ditch pot throttle. Just found out that my controller has hall throttle support. Its industrial navitas tpm400

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 4:29pm
by agniusm
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Jun 18 2019 3:56pm
I'm ditching the cheap, twitchy hall throttle that came with my Chinese electric scooter/moped in favor of a remote POT activate by a good-old, tried-and-true throttle cable. I've ordered one of these from AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electri ... 09008.html. When it comes in, I'll report back.

Image

M
Thanks for the link, ordered. It does not say but is it pot or hall? Either way this fits me good. Thanks for the link

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 8:45pm
by dustNbone
I see 3 wires so I'm thinking hall sensor.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 8:57pm
by MJSfoto1956
dustNbone wrote:
Jun 18 2019 8:45pm
I see 3 wires so I'm thinking hall sensor.
AFAIK, most POTs use 3 wires too (see photo below). Notwithstanding, if it doesn't provide better behavior than my current cheap, twitchy Chinese Hall throttle, I'll simply hack it to use a high-quality POT instead. Something like this:

Image

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 18 2019 11:41pm
by amberwolf
If you need to use a cable-operated hand control to run a throttle, there are a number of "pot box" controls, for ATVs, motorcycles, cars, etc. Both hall and pot versions exist.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jun 19 2019 12:16am
by agniusm
amberwolf wrote:
Jun 18 2019 11:41pm
If you need to use a cable-operated hand control to run a throttle, there are a number of "pot box" controls, for ATVs, motorcycles, cars, etc. Both hall and pot versions exist.
Yes, but they are like 50$. I dont want to pay 50$ for a pot.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jul 03 2019 2:41pm
by agniusm
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Jun 18 2019 3:56pm
I'm ditching the cheap, twitchy hall throttle that came with my Chinese electric scooter/moped in favor of a remote POT activate by a good-old, tried-and-true throttle cable. I've ordered one of these from AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electri ... 09008.html. When it comes in, I'll report back.

Image

M
Got mine and mated to original lever. Pretty sweet. I think i got full throw. Its for lawn mower i'm converting.
Great find

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jul 03 2019 7:15pm
by MJSfoto1956
agniusm wrote:
Jul 03 2019 2:41pm
Got mine and mated to original lever. Pretty sweet. I think i got full throw. Its for lawn mower i'm converting.
Great find
Yeah, it seems pretty sweet and the price is right. So far the "feel" is exactly what I was looking for. In the next week I hope to be able to report as to whether or not the "twitchiness" is reduced or not.

M

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jul 29 2019 5:16am
by serious_sam
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Jul 03 2019 7:15pm
Yeah, it seems pretty sweet and the price is right. So far the "feel" is exactly what I was looking for. In the next week I hope to be able to report as to whether or not the "twitchiness" is reduced or not.

M
Any update on the remote throttle pot?

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jul 30 2019 3:25pm
by j bjork
I think you can find something nice in a scrapyard for old cars. I know many old vw and audi tdi (diesel) cars had a pot for the accelerator pedal. It was before it was integrated in the pedal, when all cars had got "drive by wire". So look at cars from the mid 90s to early 2000s. There were probably similar solutions on other brands.
Or you could probably use a throttle pot mounted on the throttle from a gas car from the same period, before "drive by wire" when everything got integrated in the throttle body.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jul 30 2019 8:08pm
by MJSfoto1956
serious_sam wrote:
Jul 29 2019 5:16am
Any update on the remote throttle pot?
The combination of this AliExpress throttle + new AE96600 controller is a dream: I can feather the throttle and ride the bike as slow as 1mph without any twitchiness. However, I cannot tell you what portion of this welcome behavior is due to the throttle and what portion is due to the controller. I'm just a happy camper.

M

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jul 31 2019 4:51am
by serious_sam
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Jul 30 2019 8:08pm
serious_sam wrote:
Jul 29 2019 5:16am
Any update on the remote throttle pot?
The combination of this AliExpress throttle + new AE96600 controller is a dream: I can feather the throttle and ride the bike as slow as 1mph without any twitchiness. However, I cannot tell you what portion of this welcome behavior is due to the throttle and what portion is due to the controller. I'm just a happy camper.

M
Cool. Thanks for the update.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Jul 31 2019 6:52am
by Aeron
dustNbone wrote:
Jun 18 2019 8:45pm
I see 3 wires so I'm thinking hall sensor.
serious_sam wrote:
Jul 29 2019 5:16am
Any update on the remote throttle pot?
I have one on my build. It's definitely a hall (opened it to extend the wires).
Runs perfect with a NCY throttle.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Sep 20 2019 7:30pm
by MJSfoto1956
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Jun 18 2019 3:56pm
I'm ditching the cheap, twitchy hall throttle that came with my Chinese electric scooter/moped in favor of a remote POT activate by a good-old, tried-and-true throttle cable. I've ordered one of these from AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electri ... 09008.html. When it comes in, I'll report back.

Image

M
Well Chinese quality rears its ugly head once again. Today while doing errands, my cable throttle simply broke leaving me stranded. Photo below. I picked up a "naked" bicycle brake cable which I will need to customize to work with this unit. Needless to say, this has me concerned. As such, I am taking extra precautions regarding any stresses on the cable as well as ensure proper lubrication. Additionally, I'm updating the unit to work with the following bits from Amazon which should allow me to swap things out again much more easily than this first go around: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C ... le_o00_s00. I recommend having these items available in your kit as an insurance policy for anyone considering this throttle cable/electric throttle from AliExpress.

YMMV
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Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Sep 20 2019 10:51pm
by amberwolf
If you want a good reliable smooth cable, Jagwire is worth it (get the housing *and* the cable from them).

They come in bicycle shifter or brake types, either in precut lengths for front or rear common bike sizes, or in "shop kits" that are uncut housing and cable, with end-fixing bits. .

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Sep 24 2019 1:11pm
by MJSfoto1956
Anyone considering using the above-mentioned AliExpress throttle box should make the following modification as an insurance policy. The basic idea is to replace the proprietary double-ended cable that comes with the throttle box with a stock bicycle brake/shifter cable. Thread the closed end and attach inside your hand throttle leaving the "naked" part of the cable to attach to the square throttle body as shown in the photo below. You will need to carefully open up the hole to accept the slightly larger diameter 1/4" Dorman 3336 Cable Lock which I purchased from Amazon.

Now if my throttle breaks again, I can go to any bicycle shop in the country for an inexpensive replacement cable.

YMMV
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Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Sep 28 2019 2:47am
by John in CR
Use a 0-5V TPS. Those are hall type and pretty cheap for an essentially no way to fail automotive grade hall. How much was that cable put box above? I've only seen them for about $50 too, too rich for my blood.

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Sep 28 2019 5:41am
by Amiran
Looked up TPS, they come variety of price and make.
Good thinking!

Re: DIY 0-5k throttle

Posted: Sep 28 2019 9:08am
by MJSfoto1956
John in CR wrote:
Sep 28 2019 2:47am
...How much was that cable put box above? I've only seen them for about $50 too, too rich for my blood.
Huh? $7.50 including shipping via AliExpress. Here's the link to where I purchased it from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295490 ... 4c4dsaEBhk