Best Grease for Geared Hub Motors

zukster

zukster

1 kW
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
402
Location
North Vancouver, BC, Canada
Just thought I'd share a little blurb I found when trying to decide what grease to go get.
Its mainly about Synthetic Moly grease, but it's a good explanation of grease in gen.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lithium is the base material in the grease, moly is an additive in the grease, and synthetic tells about
the type of oil held in the base.

The base is the thickener. Lithium or lithium complex is probably the most popular grease base material.
The base is something like a sponge. It holds oil in its pores, and the oil does the lubricating. The oil
can be conventional or synthetic. Molybdenum disulfide is a dark gray powder that is very hard and very
slippery. It is one possible additive to grease, and moly is excellent for slow moving, heavily loaded
points...I use moly-additized grease on the sliding spline on the driveshaft.

So, grease can be lithium base, contain synthetic or conventional oil, with or without moly.
Top quality lithium base moly grease is fine everywhere. Less than top quality moly can contain abrasive
particles that can damage needle, ball, or roller bearings.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So a graphite grease is prob similar to above but with graphite rather than moly.
Also read that moly and graphite based are good for non-metallic parts - ie. nylon gears.
 
What I was told years ago that moly is a slippery metal that will go into the surface of gears under pressure so that the friction is reduced, to the point that used in a electric motor gear box the power used could be reduced up to 20%.

I was given a device that used spring loaded threaded type micrometer barrels that could not be turned with any grease that was tried, I used a high pressure grease that was ment for aluminum slides, added moly powder, the mikes turned as if I took away the load.

I also used it in a straight cut gear box adding it to 90 weight gear oil, it also reduced the noise of the gears meshing.

Mixing it (moly) with mobil 1 then pressure potting to about 50psi covering a clean and dried bike chain to force it into/inside the rollers, wiped of the excess on the surface. (used 2 layers of heavy duty alumium foil formed around the chain, [with a lip 1/2" higher than the chain] over filled the "pan" 1/4" above the chain.)

The best way I have found to clean roller chain is to make a loop. use a small sprocket on a motor that will run 100 or so rpm let chain run in a can with diesel fuel for a while, then some new clean for a 2nd clean- final a short run of paint thinner, let it dry out (I sometimes put in the sun) This is also recommended if using the teflon/moly/wax chain lube (spray can) that Mc master sells that claims 5 times chain life, because it dries so that the chain should not attract dust and grit. (If the chain is left with the factory grease on it, and the spray lube is used on top, the surface becomes sticky and does not dry.)
 
JEB said:
What I was told years ago that moly is a slippery metal that will go into the surface of gears under pressure so that the friction is reduced, to the point that used in a electric motor gear box the power used could be reduced up to 20%.

Mc master sells that claims 5 times chain life, because it dries so that the chain should not attract dust and grit. (If the chain is left with the factory grease on it, and the spray lube is used on top, the surface becomes sticky and does not dry.)
Click to expand...

Did you mean reduced or increased above?

Any direct experience with Mc master chain? Sounds good but I'm leery...
 
Reduced friction, less energy used to do the same work at the output.

The product from Mc master is used ON chain, they don't sell bike chain.
 
JEB said:
to the point that used in a electric motor gear box the power used could be reduced up to 20%.
Click to expand...

It was this bit here I was referring to. You must mean either the power required by the motor itself to operate
is reduced, or that the total motor power available is increased. Thanks for the info.

I ended up getting Castrol Syntec Multi Purpose Synthetic grease, assume more $$$ is prob better. Its listed
for the same uses as moly lith grease. It says it is Fully synthetic, NGLI 2 formula. So the oil is prob the
synthetic part. I'm not sure what the base and any additives would be for this one.

SYN_MultiGrease_400x797.jpg
 
I decided that the Castrol Syntec is perhaps not the best for a hub motor. My can of this had components separate once it was sitting for a while. Also, I suspect it separated in a couple of my hub motors and acted like a solvent dissolving some of the cloth type wire wraps that are used inside the Bafang SWXH. They're still working but its more likely for the wires to wiggle around and break now.

I'm open for suggestions again at this point.

My current techniqe is to just use a small amount of silicone dielectric grease where motor parts rub together. The gear posts. A bit on the teeth, but not much. Then I trust Fluid Film to keep the insides of the motor well lubricated over all and top it up every couple of months as you would oil in a car. This has been working well for over a year on a couple of Cute 100 rear motors. Also see:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12984&start=90#p679757
 
To my knowledge, "moly" di sulfied is most commonly used as a extreme pressure additive in lubricants. It is great as a dry lube which in some products can be painted on leaving a dry coating that will not attach grit as oils and greases would. It is also added to ski wax now days for added slip over dirty snow. You do not want to add it to crank case oil as it will build up where it does not fit. For gears, one of the best additives IMO.

For my favorite space aged grease, I would suggest you give the x1r stuff a try. http://www.x1r.com/racing5.htm X1R is "Space" certified. CAT also certified the grease for their heavy equipment almost immediately upon testing it. It stays put and does it's job very well. Even the feds went after them on their motor additive ads only to have to drop the case once they exasperatedly tested it them selves.

I have been using it in everything the last 4 years and it greatly out performs everything I have tried including the (so called )pure Teflon stuff. I have not seen a sluggish slide, bearing or bushing in years on a host of different equipment. The more challenging the app, the quicker I turn to this stuff. Teflon in general is not suitable in extreme pressure (gear ) applications. Teflon is best for light duty apps and in corrosive atmospheres like building a moon bike.
 
speedmd said:
Teflon is best for light duty apps and in corrosive atmospheres like building a moon bike.
Click to expand...
Which moon? For the one over our planet, you wouldn't have to worry about *any* atmosphere, much less a corrosive one. ;)
 
amberwolf said:
speedmd said:
Teflon is best for light duty apps and in corrosive atmospheres like building a moon bike.
Click to expand...
Which moon? For the one over our planet, you wouldn't have to worry about *any* atmosphere, much less a corrosive one. ;)
Click to expand...


:p :lol: :p :lol: :p
 
BMC recommends Mobilgrease 28.
It's a high temp, high viscosity benotite (clay-based) aviation grease.
Works great - I can't fault the stuff in any way - no reason to play with other formulations...
 
The mobi 28 is a N. 1.5, slightly thinner than the standard number 2 grease. Good stuff certainly. Clay can be a problem when it dries up in certain applications. Don't see any issues inside a hub motor other than paying aircraft prices for it. We did have better results on hot running tooling with the calcium- synthetics. I don't sell the stuff, just sharing experiences. Some history on sun coasts cert. http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2007/ch_5.html
 
I cant find Best Grease for Geared Hub Motors anywhere, some say Mobil grease 28, but its expensive. Others say ATF.

Another is "High Quality Synthetic Grease" - I should be able to hit up the Auto Parts store and buy some off the shelf.

What is recommended?
 
Lately I have not been too fussy and have continued to use a small amount of silicone dielectric grease where motor parts rub together. The gear posts. A bit on the teeth, but not much. I have also used any synthetic grease I've had on hand. I have not had to open a motor up for a couple of years now. I also use Boeshield T9 on the 8FUN Bafang motors with upgraded metal gears. It quiets them down. For Cute 100 motors I have not been using the Boeshield T9 as I have not had to open any up. If I did, I would thoroughly spray the inside before bolting it back up. Ebikes.ca started using Boeshield T9 a few years ago.

http://www.ebikes.ca/blog/cat/view/identifier/news/page/news/?p=2

Its a third of the way down.

Prior to that I used Fluid Film from Canadian Tire. In Canada you can get Boeshield T9 at Lee Valley. Not sure about the States.
 
The grease that was in my BMC V1 motor was white.

Boeshield T9 at Lee Valley, there is a store in town. Is it expensive?
Its not a grease though from what I read.
Drilled Motor Side Cover
December 31, 2011 9:26:15 PM PST
SidecoverHoles_TN (12K)

We’re now providing the option of a drilled out side cover for the Nine Continent andCrystalyte motors based on results from our water ingress tests. For people who rideregularly throughout the winter but bring their bikes indoors overnight, this provides thebest way to prevent water from getting trapped inside the hub and rusting out both thestator and the hall sensors. We also coat all the exposed iron with Boeshield T9, sothat the temporary water that does make it in will evaporate without leaving a trace.
Click to expand...
 
The grease is to protect the gears and moving touching parts.

The Boeshield T9 is to protect the internal electronics.

The Boeshield T9 sprays out with a straw and leaves a waxy film behind when it evaporates which protects the internal wires and hall sensors. This is particularly good if you're riding in below zero temperatures and the motor draws in water during cooling condensation. The last 2 Vancouver winters have been pretty mild, but several years ago my bike would not start in the morning after the condensation got in and then froze. The Fluid Film and better yet Boeshield T9 prevents this by leaving a waxy protective coating keep the water off the internal wires and sensors.
 
I bought some stuff at CrappyTire called Mystik JT6 Hi Temp Multi Purpose Grease with EP Lithium Complex and has a GLGI of 2. Its a red grease. There was another option that I thought about and passed on, and it was Marine grease.

Grease.jpg
 
Moly is great stuff for metal-to-metal. No benefit with plastic.

Lithium grease good for metal OK for plastic.

Petroleum grease is OK for metal, great for plastic.

Most of the planet gears are plastic. Guess which gears wear fastest?
 
When my clutch seized on a 10t mac I threw in some Red silicone grease.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease

also there is this stuff which is plastic safe

http://www.redrubbergrease.com/

It says its vegetable oil based and safe on plastic and rubber. Im sure mine says silicone grease on the pot.

Iv probably done 5k miles since at 40amps 55v and its sounds sweet.
 
markz said:
I cant find Best Grease for Geared Hub Motors anywhere, some say Mobil grease 28, but its expensive. Others say ATF.

Another is "High Quality Synthetic Grease" - I should be able to hit up the Auto Parts store and buy some off the shelf.

What is recommended?
Click to expand...
6000 miles ago, when I replaced my white planetary gears. I used automotive Hi Temp Brake Caliper grease. 5 bucks :roll:
 
Had a long talk with the engineers at Mobil...they recommended Mobil SHC 100.

It is "synthetic base fluids with...lithium complex thickener".

I can tell you DO NOT USE ATF...the lubrication is great, if you use enough it will also thermally connect the motor to the housing it will run a lot cooler BUT eventually the ATF will start to leak out of the axle where the wires exit and it will get on your brake rotor and your brakes will be useless. How do I know....I had it happen to me.
 
I have been wondering what best grease to use is too. I repair a lot of laser printers. Many hot running nylon / plastic gears in them. What I found works best is Super Lube multi purpose grease. I may try on geared e-bike motor.

Here info on it

Super Lube® Grease is a patented synthetic NLGI grade 2 heavy-duty, multipurpose lubricant with PTFE. Synthetic base fluids and the addition of PTFE micro powders combine to form a premium lubricant that provides longer life protection against friction, wear, rust and corrosion. Machinery lasts longer, downtime is reduced, and productivity is increased. Super Lube® is compatible with most other lubricants and will not run, drip, evaporate or form gummy deposits, and will not melt or separate.

Food Grade, rated H-1 by the USDA and NSF for incidental food contact. It is an excellent Dielectric and operates over a temperature range from -45° to 450° F.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Reid Welch
"Extreme MY1018" archival, closed out
Replies
11
Views
15,692
GIGATT
G
Back
Top