MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

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20-20   10 mW

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MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by 20-20 » Aug 21 2019 9:25am

Planning a new project based on a KMX trke. Here's what I've got in mind:
  • MXUS 3K V3 hub motor built into moped rim (rear wheel drive)
  • 72v 30ah lithium ion battery
  • Phaserunner controller
  • Cycle Analyst
Most of the MXUS 3K builds I've read about have controllers that deliver 100amps plus - whereas the Phaserunner's recommended max continuous is 45 amps (maybe more if properly cooled). Even at 45 amps I'd have in excess of 3kw, which is plenty for my purposes.

So... is there something I've overlooked? Would a controller with higher current ability than the Phaserunner be a better choice, even if max continuous current draw is set to 50 amps or less? And if so, which controller should I consider?

Main reason I'm keen to use the Phaserunner and CA combination is because I've had good experience with them on my mid-drive 2 wheeler. Plus I'd like to take advantage of the proportional regen they can deliver with a DD hub motor.

rockstar195   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by rockstar195 » Aug 21 2019 10:12am

Get a Sabvoton.
First I had the Phaserunner and then a Sabvoton 72150 for my other bike.

Even with settings maxxed out on the PR, acceleration and going up his is slower on my lighter bike. There are two settings you should be aware of: PHASE AMPS and BATTERY AMPS. The PR's max settings for both Phase Amps and Battery Amps is 90A. But with the Sabvoton max phase amps is 350A and battery is 100A. The difference is night and day, acceleration pulls hard and up hills it pulls hard and that's with a way more heavier bike. Keep in mind you can always set the settings lower on the Sabvoton. But with the PR, the max "ceiling" is 90A. Room to grow with a more powerful controller for the future, call it a day.

20-20   10 mW

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by 20-20 » Aug 21 2019 11:07am

rockstar195 wrote:
Aug 21 2019 10:12am
Get a Sabvoton.
First I had the Phaserunner and then a Sabvoton 72150 for my other bike.

Even with settings maxxed out on the PR, acceleration and going up his is slower on my lighter bike. There are two settings you should be aware of: PHASE AMPS and BATTERY AMPS. The PR's max settings for both Phase Amps and Battery Amps is 90A. But with the Sabvoton max phase amps is 350A and battery is 100A. The difference is night and day, acceleration pulls hard and up hills it pulls hard and that's with a way more heavier bike. Keep in mind you can always set the settings lower on the Sabvoton. But with the PR, the max "ceiling" is 90A. Room to grow with a more powerful controller for the future, call it a day.
Yeah, I saw the Sabvoton 72150 mentioned in several posts by MXUS 3K users. After some internet research I'm kind of wary. It appears the 72150 was discontinued at some point, then replaced by a newer model, which is now also NLA. Apparently the 72150s currently advertised on aliexpress are inferior knock-offs? I'm confused! Who stocks genuine Sabvoton 72150 nowadays?

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by john61ct » Aug 21 2019 11:57am

I also have been not getting a great general impression of Sabvoton from browsing forum threads.

Not sure if these, or which of these are better:

Nucular

ASI http://accelerated-systems.com/products ... ontrollers

Sevcon

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by rockstar195 » Aug 21 2019 3:01pm

No don't buy it from aliexpress. Buy it from the company who makes hub motors.....I did.
Here's the link:
http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_rea ... r/537.html

When you send them an email for a quote, tell them everything you want the controller to have (they customize). They answered all my questions and gave me a goid price. Came in the mail by DHL really really quick.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by john61ct » Aug 21 2019 4:57pm

Does QS Motor actually make any of those controllers they sell?

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by Yermommy » Aug 21 2019 5:24pm

20-20 wrote:
Aug 21 2019 11:07am
rockstar195 wrote:
Aug 21 2019 10:12am
Get a Sabvoton.
First I had the Phaserunner and then a Sabvoton 72150 for my other bike.

Even with settings maxxed out on the PR, acceleration and going up his is slower on my lighter bike. There are two settings you should be aware of: PHASE AMPS and BATTERY AMPS. The PR's max settings for both Phase Amps and Battery Amps is 90A. But with the Sabvoton max phase amps is 350A and battery is 100A. The difference is night and day, acceleration pulls hard and up hills it pulls hard and that's with a way more heavier bike. Keep in mind you can always set the settings lower on the Sabvoton. But with the PR, the max "ceiling" is 90A. Room to grow with a more powerful controller for the future, call it a day.
Yeah, I saw the Sabvoton 72150 mentioned in several posts by MXUS 3K users. After some internet research I'm kind of wary. It appears the 72150 was discontinued at some point, then replaced by a newer model, which is now also NLA. Apparently the 72150s currently advertised on aliexpress are inferior knock-offs? I'm confused! Who stocks genuine Sabvoton 72150 nowadays?
Stay away from Sabvoton... I can’t stress this enough. I bought one from Amazon and it has been nothing but trouble. Go for a Nucular Controller or Kelly Controller. I can’t even begin to list the issues I’ve had with my 72150: fries hall sensors in all motors I’ve used it with, usb stopped working so I had to wire it myself, flimsy wire harness, no tech support, clone versions with low quality FETs are visually indistinguishable from real version...etc.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by john61ct » Aug 21 2019 6:44pm

What are the Kelly models that best support very high amps for torque?

KT is something else right?

rockstar195   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by rockstar195 » Aug 21 2019 7:26pm

www.cnqsmotor.com is a manufacturer as they claim on their website if you scroll to the bottom of that page of the link. Controller is under warranty for a year and they also sell Kelly Controllers. My Sabovton works fine. I bought it straight from them not off of who knows could it be selling on Amazon.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by john61ct » Aug 21 2019 8:23pm

Does not answer my question.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by amberwolf » Aug 22 2019 2:17am

Both Kelly and Sabvoton have been known to just let all the smoke out for no explicable reason.

Kellys have also been known to brick themselves simply because they were still connected to the programming port/device (computer) when the motor was spun. Apparently there's not-very-clear warnings about this in some of their manuals....

No personal experience with either.


KT is KunTeng Kun Teng etc. Lots of threads about them on the forum.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by 20-20 » Aug 22 2019 8:50am

john61ct wrote:
Aug 21 2019 11:57am
I also have been not getting a great general impression of Sabvoton from browsing forum threads.

Not sure if these, or which of these are better:

Nucular

ASI http://accelerated-systems.com/products ... ontrollers

Sevcon
ASI BAC-2000 sounds fantastic but various reports on ES about it being difficult to set up and lack of assistance/documentation from the mfr put me off. If Justin at GRIN were to do a similar thing with the BAC-2000 that he's done with ASI's BAC-800 based Phaserunner I'd be a lot more confident handing over my cash. I don't think there's any question it's a high quality product but without some well documented examples of how to configure it for best performance in an application similar to mine, it's too much of a leap in the dark for me right now.

Nucular is a new name to me. After a brief search I can only find limited info. Nucular 12F spec looks OK, but unlike the Sabvoton, ASI and Phaserunner, it's not sine wave.

Don't know anything about Sevcon. Will check them out.

For the time being I'm inclined to stick with the Phaserunner and take it easy with the amps.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by rockstar195 » Aug 22 2019 11:47am

20-20 wrote:
Aug 22 2019 8:50am


For the time being I'm inclined to stick with the Phaserunner and take it easy with the amps.
For your setup (trike) w/ motor on a moped rim, PR is going to under-perform up hills and acceleration. Get a more powerful controller and call it a day. Yeah it looks cool and is tiny, buy you're going to want a more powerful controller. Difference is night and day my PR vs Sabvoton 72150. If there's too much power, you can always set it lower.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by 20-20 » Aug 22 2019 4:00pm

rockstar195 wrote:
Aug 22 2019 11:47am
20-20 wrote:
Aug 22 2019 8:50am


For the time being I'm inclined to stick with the Phaserunner and take it easy with the amps.
For your setup (trike) w/ motor on a moped rim, PR is going to under-perform up hills and acceleration. Get a more powerful controller and call it a day. Yeah it looks cool and is tiny, buy you're going to want a more powerful controller. Difference is night and day my PR vs Sabvoton 72150. If there's too much power, you can always set it lower.
Sabvoton 72150 spec looks good on paper but there are reliability (and set-up) issues according to other posts on here. How long have you had yours? Clocked up lots of miles?

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by amberwolf » Aug 22 2019 10:16pm

20-20 wrote:
Aug 22 2019 8:50am

Don't know anything about Sevcon. Will check them out.
If you think the BAC is hard to setup...wait till you see Sevcon...and you will need their software and programming hardware, which may cost more than the controlelr depending on what you need to do.

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by 20-20 » Aug 23 2019 4:36am

amberwolf wrote:
Aug 22 2019 10:16pm
20-20 wrote:
Aug 22 2019 8:50am

Don't know anything about Sevcon. Will check them out.
If you think the BAC is hard to setup...wait till you see Sevcon...and you will need their software and programming hardware, which may cost more than the controlelr depending on what you need to do.
So it's a toss up between a dodgy, unreliable Chinese knock-off or one that needs assistance from a rocket scientist? :D

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by j bjork » Aug 23 2019 6:23am

20-20 wrote:
Aug 22 2019 8:50am

Nucular is a new name to me. After a brief search I can only find limited info. Nucular 12F spec looks OK, but unlike the Sabvoton, ASI and Phaserunner, it's not sine wave.

For the time being I'm inclined to stick with the Phaserunner and take it easy with the amps.
In the early development the nucular was not sine wave, now it is foc.
There are 2 threads here you should read about them, the sales thred and users thred (I dont remember the names)

It sure seems like nice controllers, very new to the market though.

Maby keep your phaserunner until you can get a nucular :wink:

Edit, some reading:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97163

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by 20-20 » Aug 24 2019 10:45am

j bjork wrote:
Aug 23 2019 6:23am

In the early development the nucular was not sine wave, now it is foc.
There are 2 threads here you should read about them, the sales thred and users thred (I dont remember the names)

It sure seems like nice controllers, very new to the market though.

Maby keep your phaserunner until you can get a nucular :wink:

Edit, some reading:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=97163

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494
Thanks for those two links. Nucular sounds promising but it's difficult to find any detailed info. The website link the guy from Nucular provided in one of those threads is dead. Not exactly confidence inspiring! I didn't realise finding a reliable 72v ~100a controller would be so difficult :roll: :lol:

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by j bjork » Aug 24 2019 12:49pm

Yes, good controllers seem harder to find than you would think :(
If you find a good controller they are not very interested in selling them to you it seems.
They are more interested in the oem market, and I guess that is understandable.
If you still are able to get a controller like that, it seems they are often very hard to set up. (ASI, sevcon)

It seems like the way to be able to get a good controller is to get it from a company that is new, and not yet so interesting for the oem market. Or you can get a controller that is not up to the oem market quality demands..

Well, that is just my perception of how it is from what I have read. I don´t have anything to do with nucular, I just think they seem promising. But it is a gamble for sure, but from what I have read those who have got a controller from them seem quite happy with it so far. But how it will hold up is yet to be seen.. I am still waiting for the 24fets to get finished :wink:

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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by john61ct » Aug 24 2019 2:42pm


20-20 wrote:I didn't realise finding a reliable 72v ~100a controller would be so difficult
Personally, I don't care about the higher voltage (top speed), I need tons of power for **torque** though, in other words high currents at low rpm, 48-53V range.

What are the quality controller suggestions for that scenario if Phaserunner's not enough?

Difficult configuration I can deal with as long as it's a puzzle that **can** be dealt with.

Seems a business opportunity for high power pre-tuned motor+controller pair **kits**?


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Re: MXUS 3K & 72 volts... OK with Phaserunner?

Post by flat tire » Aug 24 2019 9:15pm

Sevcon, but I would run ASI with lower voltage <=20S.

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