High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

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rockstar195   100 W

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High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by rockstar195 » Sep 06 2019 7:11am

Those of you with these types of ebikes: Stealth, Enduro, etc. what is your suspension setup for riding on the streets at higher speeds? I'm trying to "dial in" to maintain control and stability. I have a DNM Burner-RCP3 Rear Shock for the rear. I have a 650 lb and 750 lb spring that I'm still trying out. I read somewhere that a stiffer spring is not necessarily better. And still have to install the Fox 40 I just received. The DNM USD 8S fork on there now is a no go.

Post your tips/tricks/hints/insights/comments on suspension settings/setups to maintain control and stability at higher speeds.

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parajared   10 kW

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by parajared » Sep 06 2019 10:18am

The bike will "porpoise" if your shocks are too soft. You don't want to be leaning way forward after your wheel drops down deep in a dip.
The bike will slam and try drive a bike up your innards/through your forearms if the shocks are too hard.

Generally you want the shocks soft for casual use and when you are racing, downhilling doing anything where you are going to be hammering those dips at speed you want those shocks to be firmed up to a level that's starting to feel uncomfortable at a casual level.

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E-HP   1 MW

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by E-HP » Sep 06 2019 11:19am

rockstar195 wrote:
Sep 06 2019 7:11am
Those of you with these types of ebikes: Stealth, Enduro, etc. what is your suspension setup for riding on the streets at higher speeds? I'm trying to "dial in" to maintain control and stability. I have a DNM Burner-RCP3 Rear Shock for the rear. I have a 650 lb and 750 lb spring that I'm still trying out. I read somewhere that a stiffer spring is not necessarily better. And still have to install the Fox 40 I just received. The DNM USD 8S fork on there now is a no go.

Post your tips/tricks/hints/insights/comments on suspension settings/setups to maintain control and stability at higher speeds.
I'd check out Fechter's setup up, since he's carving through windy roads at speed with his Sur-ron.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101441&p=1493848#p1493848

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by flat tire » Sep 06 2019 1:08pm

Start by installing the lighter spring. Then set your sag front and rear. Do not skip this part, it is crucial. Then you can follow the manufacturer's recommended damping settings for your fork and shock. In general it's better to have as little damping as you can get away with. If the bike is too stiff it won't keep good contact with the ground.

rockstar195   100 W

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by rockstar195 » Sep 07 2019 12:03pm

Going to try that! Thanks

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by flat tire » Sep 07 2019 1:37pm

Once the bike is together use your sag o ring or a zip tie on the shock tubes front and rear to see how much travel you're using. If you aren't using all of it while riding hard, you need a softer spring. If you are going to the end you need more spring.

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by Grantmac » Sep 07 2019 1:59pm

On the street you shouldn't be going through maximum travel. Likewise higher rebound and possibly compression will have handling benefits compared to offroad.

Look at setup for supermoto vs motocross bikes.

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by flat tire » Sep 07 2019 2:03pm

Grantmac wrote:
Sep 07 2019 1:59pm
On the street you shouldn't be going through maximum travel.
Set your travel based on the hardest use the bike will see. Whether that's hard braking on a flat surface or landing jumps you should be very close to, but not quite bottoming out when dialed in.

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by Grantmac » Sep 07 2019 2:28pm

Hard braking on the flat shouldn't be blowing through the travel otherwise you are heading for major problems braking into a downhill corner with a bit of rough pavement.
Likewise rear travel isn't going to be maximized on the street unless you run far too soft at which point you'll get a an unsettling pitching moment out of corners.

Competitive supermoto guys run far more damping and a touch less sag than the same bike on a motocross track.

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by flat tire » Sep 07 2019 6:14pm

You silly man. Setting travel for the hardest conditions the bike will see by definition means you will have plenty of travel.

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serious_sam   1 kW

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by serious_sam » Sep 07 2019 9:05pm

Grantmac wrote:
Sep 07 2019 1:59pm
On the street you shouldn't be going through maximum travel. Likewise higher rebound and possibly compression will have handling benefits compared to offroad.
Bingo.
flat tire wrote:
Sep 06 2019 1:08pm
Start by installing the lighter spring.
With all due respect, that is not correct.

Consider what is the fundamental purpose of suspension: to ensure maximum grip between the tyre and road surface, while maintaining control and balance. Comfort is usually a secondary function, and is a compromise on handling.

A road bike doesn't need 200mm of travel to achieve maximum grip. Using the full 200mm of travel of a fox 40 fork is going to cause excessive geomety changes during weight transfer (and also increase weight transfer = less grip), that will negatively impact balance, response and overall control. The wheel rate (natural frequency) will be far too low. But it will be very comfortable. You will be riding in a big boat. And we will call you captain.

Consider this situation: offroad bike, long travel suspension, riding on the road, braking hard before a corner, weight transfers forwards, forks almost fully compressed, rear almost fully decompressed. Major geometry change. You progressively release the brakes, and turn in to the corner. What is the attitude of the bike ? Pitched forwards like a mofo. How long does it take to return to neutral position ? Far too long. Is this ideal for weight distribution and front/rear balance for cornering ? No.

Take a look at suspension figures for offroad vs road motorcycles. Typical offroad "race sag" (sag with rider) for rear wheel will be around 100mm. Road bike will be around 40mm. Track bike will be more like 25mm. Seeing a pattern ? Smoother surface = less suspension travel, stiffer springs. Yes, there are differences between the types of bike (geometry, weight, loads), however, the fundamental theory is the same.

Also, higher speeds, and higher braking/accelerating loads = more load transfer, which again, requires stiffer suspension.

TLDR: Everything else being equal: smaller bumps -> less suspension travel required -> stiffer springs. And stiffer springs means more rebound damping required to react to the higher forces.

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by rockstar195 » Sep 08 2019 12:40am

flat tire wrote:
Sep 06 2019 1:08pm
Start by installing the lighter spring. Then set your sag front and rear. Do not skip this part, it is crucial. Then you can follow the manufacturer's recommended damping settings for your fork and shock. In general it's better to have as little damping as you can get away with. If the bike is too stiff it won't keep good contact with the ground.
Best advice I have received on endless-sphere that has helped me imensely. Big improvement and has led me in the right direction.

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by flat tire » Sep 08 2019 12:41am

serious_sam wrote:
Sep 07 2019 9:05pm
blah blah blah
Another silly person who doesn't know suspension. Even his lighter spring won't be bottoming out on the street. But streets are bumpy and there are kerbs. If you have travel, you should try to use it. People ALWAYS go too stiff with suspension.

rockstar195 wrote:
Sep 08 2019 12:40am
Best advice I have received on endless-sphere that has helped me imensely. Big improvement and has led me in the right direction.
Awesome!

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serious_sam   1 kW

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by serious_sam » Sep 08 2019 4:02am

flat tire wrote:
Sep 08 2019 12:41am
serious_sam wrote:
Sep 07 2019 9:05pm
blah blah blah
Another silly person who doesn't know suspension. Even his lighter spring won't be bottoming out on the street. But streets are bumpy and there are kerbs. If you have travel, you should try to use it. People ALWAYS go too stiff with suspension.

rockstar195 wrote:
Sep 08 2019 12:40am
Best advice I have received on endless-sphere that has helped me imensely. Big improvement and has led me in the right direction.
Awesome!
Smells like bullshit in here. I'm out.

rockstar195   100 W

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by rockstar195 » Sep 08 2019 11:09am

I installed the lighter spring, and set the sag. I'm not "dialed" in yet, as I'm playing around with the external adjustments but the bike feels so much better, like riding on a cushion. Setting the sag has been very important. :bigthumb:

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by Grantmac » Sep 08 2019 3:04pm

"Riding on a cushion" isn't how you setup suspension for performance at high speed on smooth roads.
Actually it's a recipe for a crap setup.

rockstar195   100 W

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by rockstar195 » Sep 08 2019 4:14pm

Right now trying to dial in HSC/LSC and rebound. Big gains 10x better, no 15x better than what I had before. Increased control and stability. :bigthumb:

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: High powered Ebikes high speed suspension setup

Post by dogman dan » Sep 09 2019 7:43am

My personal experience has been that the problem above 40 mph is frame stiffness, side to side. Bikes just aren't made to go that fast all the time, and after awhile, the frames actually get flexy and start high speed wobbling at slower speeds.

A really good DH frame though, is beefy enough to avoid this problem. I'm referring to cheaper frames some try to take to 50 mph.

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