help motor run reverse

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Laserman   100 W

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help motor run reverse

Post by Laserman » Dec 02 2019 2:44pm

have issue with controller and motor
replaced motor repaired controller blown mosfets
now motor runs in reverse (brushless 650 watt)
how to make it run forward.thanks in advance.
Home built mid mount with united 1kw motor
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AHicks   100 W

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by AHicks » Dec 02 2019 3:17pm

Switch any 2 of the 3 phase wires, and remember to match that move with your sensor wires.

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Laserman   100 W

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by Laserman » Dec 02 2019 3:50pm

did the swap and nope still in reverse swapped yellow for green on both phase and sensors
Home built mid mount with united 1kw motor
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E-HP   100 kW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by E-HP » Dec 02 2019 4:59pm

Laserman wrote:
Dec 02 2019 3:50pm
did the swap and nope still in reverse swapped yellow for green on both phase and sensors
Based on the diagram TommyCat posted on another thread, you could try swapping the yellow and green phase wires, and the yellow and blue hall sensor wires.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103373&p=1512036#p1512036

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Laserman   100 W

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by Laserman » Dec 02 2019 6:12pm

Thanks will try that
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d8veh   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by d8veh » Dec 03 2019 5:13am

If you have a controller with automatic phase/hall sequence detection, reversing wires won't make any difference. the controller will reconfigure to reverse the change so that the motor still runs in reverse.

Some controllers have the two single self-learning wires, so you must run the self-learning procedure to get the correct operation and direction. If you leave the self-learning wires connected, they can switch to reverse direction whether you want or not.

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Laserman   100 W

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by Laserman » Dec 04 2019 1:18pm

there are no self learn wires but sti;; not running forward
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obcd   10 W

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by obcd » Dec 04 2019 5:59pm

It might help if you could post what controller and motor you are using.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by John in CR » Dec 05 2019 6:14am

If no self leaning is taking place with the controller, then you are getting mixed results...a true reverse and a false positive reverse denoted by a rougher start, a lack of torque, higher no load current, and typically higher max rpm due to the advanced timing of the incorrect wiring config. If it's a sine wave controller then the sonic difference would be harder to notice.

Can you measure no-load current? Can you apply the brake without motor cutoff to test for torque? Use slow short throttle pulses when testing wiring configs, because incorrect ones can cause high current and blow another controller or worse, the motor. I always use jumper wires to complete the connections as they're easier to swap and act like a fuse to prevent high currents while being very careful not to cause phase or battery wire shorts during the process.

Since you've swapped so many wires, start at the beginning with the original wiring config, and determine if that is a good smooth reverse or a false positive. If it is a false positive reverse, then swap ONLY the phase wires until you find the good forward of the 5 remaining possible combos....small throttle pulses. If you get reverse on every one, then self learning is going on.

If it's a true reverse, then swap only 2 of the hall wires, and find the right combo of phase wires of the 6 possible. To be systematic it's easiest to swap just 2 at a time choose one wire as an anchor wire (eg motor wire green...try the 2 combos of blue and yellow with motor green on controller green, controller yellow, and controller blue)

Our 3 phase motors have 6 "good" wiring configs. 3 in reverse and 3 forward. They also 6 false positives that will spin the wheel, and in every case I've seen, the false positive is in the opposite direction of "good" config while keeping the halls static.

Note that above I talk about swapping phase wires and keeping halls static (or at most one swap of halls to change direction). That's because halls are typically harder to swap around, but you can get exactly the same results swapping halls if they're easier to change around and keep the phase wires static other than one swap of only 2 to change direction.

I also keep a supply of all the colors of electrical tape to mark the wires the matching colors when I find the good wiring config for easier connection later.

Do this once and you'll have confidence to connect any bldc motor even if the wires aren't color coded. It is NEVER necessary to go through the possible 36 possible combos of hall and phase wires, and those promoting it and the table to help go through it should be ignored.

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TommyCat   1 kW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by TommyCat » Dec 05 2019 10:17am

John in CR wrote:
Dec 05 2019 6:14am
It is NEVER necessary to go through the possible 36 possible combos of hall and phase wires, and those promoting it and the table to help go through it should be ignored.
Is this the table your referring too?


Image
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John in CR   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by John in CR » Dec 05 2019 12:42pm

No, but the flow chart thing is a bit of a time waster too. Wiring configs are a simple problem with a simple solution that I explained in a few sentences. I could do it blindfolded, so anyone can do it.

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Laserman   100 W

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by Laserman » Dec 05 2019 12:57pm

the trike is a fiesta small erv the controller is not labelled motor is 650 watt brush less that has a shaft that goes into the rear differential
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 05 2019 1:01pm

Use very little throttle if doesn't work don't use more throttle try something different. Not more throttle.

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TommyCat   1 kW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by TommyCat » Dec 05 2019 1:07pm

John in CR wrote:
Dec 05 2019 12:42pm
No, but the flow chart thing is a bit of a time waster too.
Could you make any suggestions to improve it?

I think being able to monitor amperage draw, and using the throttle in small judicial amounts should be included.
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 05 2019 1:23pm

First do JohnCR trick of swapping any two wires as I read he can do it in 6 tries ? It took me 36 and a piece of paper and and only one worked ? After the 22nd I kept going just to know. A bmc 600 geared a very fickle motor. Don't worry you will find it. Good luck.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by John in CR » Dec 05 2019 6:41pm

999zip999 wrote:
Dec 05 2019 1:23pm
First do JohnCR trick of swapping any two wires as I read he can do it in 6 tries ? It took me 36 and a piece of paper and and only one worked ? After the 22nd I kept going just to know. A bmc 600 geared a very fickle motor. Don't worry you will find it. Good luck.
I've heard the story of 1 in 36 for BMC's before. That seems only possible if it requires a proprietary controller that includes some kind of non-uniform timing between halls. The magnets spin in a circle with uniform spacing and halls need uniform spacing, so how can the firing sequence A-B-C-A-B-C... be different from B-C-A-B-C-A... or C-A-B-C-A-B...?

I learned my lesson back in 2008, when as a noob I got frustrated trying to get the wiring config right on a little geared hubbie and burned up both the motor and controller when in frustration I gave it full throttle for a couple of seconds "to show it who was boss." Afterward I learned that changing spin direction on sensorless motors for RC required just a swap of any 2 phase wires. Then I looked at the problem with halls and phases as a simple logic problem to come up with the simplest method possible that I've used ever since with 100% results on many motors. It's essentially the same as outlined in the flow chart, but in the time it takes to look at the flow chart getting the wiring right is already done. I wire up 6 phase dual controller motors all the time with the only color coding available is which halls go with which phases and the +5V and gnd for the two set of halls.

The most difficult one was when a crash turned the wire harness at the axle into a rats nest of copper, requiring a re-harness of one of the 6 phase motors. All color coding, including which halls went to which set of phases was lost. After the rework that motor is still the fastest running hubmotor in existence with a flat ground speed of over 113mph so far with a bit more to give. It has been in daily use for over 7 years.
Last edited by John in CR on Dec 05 2019 10:33pm, edited 1 time in total.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 05 2019 9:03pm

Thank you JohnCR much love .My friend. I just don't have access now. Triing.

d8veh   100 GW

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Re: help motor run reverse

Post by d8veh » Dec 06 2019 11:02am

As I said, some controllers have automatic phase and hall sequence detection without the self-learning wires. If you have one of those, it's very difficult to reverse direction because they reverse every change you make in their logic.

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