2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
Post Reply
bluem6   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 26 2019 3:31pm

2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by bluem6 » Jan 05 2020 12:37am

I am looking for some assistance with wiring the controller. I swap out a 48V to this one but I cannot get the "low brake" to work. It does cut power to the motor but does not apply the 'brake' to slow down the motor. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Link to 2000W 48-72V brushless controller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000W-48-72V-D ... 2749.l2649

There's also a single orange wire label "Two round up" which I have no idea what it is...

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 31723
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by amberwolf » Jan 05 2020 1:47am

not every controller will provide regen braking.

this one's ebay listing you link to does not state anything about braking or regen that i can find, so it probably simply isn't designed to provide it (or it isn't programmed at the factory to do it, and is probably not user-programmable).


alternately, if you are using a geared hubmotor, they usually have freewheels inside them between motor and casing, preventing any form of motor braking from working. the motor will indeed brake, inside the casing...but the freewheel prevents it from stoppin the casing and wheel.


if you're using a dd / direct drive hubmotor, in a wheel, then if the controller supports regen braking, it should provide at least a small amount of braking, potentially a lot.

so in taht case you can try another thing, and that is to use the high level braking wire if it has one, whcih typically connects to 12v or higher to engage, instead of grounding it like you would the low level wire. a few controllers are setup so that one of the two wires actually engages regen, but the other just disables the controller. dunno why.


a very very few controllers don't actually control braking via the lever switch--they turn it on with that switch, but then you have to use the throttle to turn braking force up while still holding the brake lever switch on.

bluem6   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 26 2019 3:31pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by bluem6 » Jan 05 2020 7:52pm

Shoot, I was afraid of that....that the controller does not have that feature. I did try the "high" wire however I hook it up to a 3S (11.1V) and that does the same just cut the power to the motor. It's a brushless hub motor so I can't try the gear thing. I'll try again tonight with a higher voltage to the high wire and see if that makes any difference. By the way, any idea what the orange wire label "Two round up..." is for?

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 31723
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by amberwolf » Jan 05 2020 8:13pm

bluem6 wrote:
Jan 05 2020 7:52pm
I did try the "high" wire however I hook it up to a 3S (11.1V) and that does the same just cut the power to the motor.
<snip>
I'll try again tonight with a higher voltage to the high wire and see if that makes any difference.
if it already activated the brake function by stopping the motor, then it's already doing everything it's designed to, a higher voltage wil make no difference.
It's a brushless hub motor so I can't try the gear thing.
not sure what you mean by "gear thing".

if the motor is already a geared hubmotor then it won't brake because of the internal freewheel.

if it is not already a geared hubmotor you would not want to replace it with one for the above reason.




By the way, any idea what the orange wire label "Two round up..." is for?
sorry, no, it's too poor a translation to figure out. there are some pretty bad translations out there that make it difficult to figure out various technical things about chinese devices.

bluem6   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 26 2019 3:31pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by bluem6 » Jan 05 2020 8:34pm

Ah, got it...so it look like I am out of luck with this controller then. I swap out my original 48V controller with this one and look like I might need to swap it back...

Sorry, meant to say it's a gearless hub motor...

I'll upload a picture of the box and the instructions and see if you can see anything that I haven't.

Thank you very much by the way for the help...

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 31723
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by amberwolf » Jan 05 2020 8:52pm

bluem6 wrote:
Jan 05 2020 8:34pm
Ah, got it...so it look like I am out of luck with this controller then. I swap out my original 48V controller with this one and look like I might need to swap it back...
yeah, i have some controllers here i'd love to use on my trike, but can't because i require strong regen braking and they don't have it, either it's really weak or it doesn't do it at all.

before you give up completley, there is a small chance that inside it on the pcb circuit board there could be pads that when a wire is soldered to them from ground then activate the regen function, so that when turning on the braking via the hi or lo brake wires, it does brake the wheel at least some amount.

but not all controllers have those, either, and the names / letters on the pads for this vary a lot. i've seen br, bk, ebs, ebk, xh, etc, and sometimes its a combination of pads, like one that wires xh to ebrake low, etc.
search.php?keywords=regen+enable+pad&te ... mit=Search

opening it up carries the risk that it won't work when you put it back together, too. and you may have to open it up mulitple times to try different pads.

it also may make it nonreturnable to the seller.
Sorry, meant to say it's a gearless hub motor...
if it worekd with regen with the prevous controller then it should work with the new one.
Thank you very much by the way for the help...
i;ve been thru this myself so figure it's good to pass on what i found while doing it.

rockstar195   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: May 13 2019 8:33pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by rockstar195 » Jan 05 2020 10:58pm

Time for brake upgrades if not done already.

bluem6   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 26 2019 3:31pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by bluem6 » Jan 05 2020 11:27pm

I have drum brakes on my trike and don't know if that will be good enough moving at 28mph now...

Is there a 48-72V controller that you would recommend?

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 31723
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by amberwolf » Jan 06 2020 1:03am

of the ones i know for sure are avialable that i know do what htye say they do, the ones at grin tech http://ebikes.ca should work--but not the grinfineon ones with proportional regen, because those require uisng the throttle to control amount of braking after turning braking on with the brake lever. (or using hte cycle analyst to do it) plus they're like two hundred bucks each.

i'm using the lower voltage version of the grinfineon on the sb cruiser trike, and the propregen is nice in theory but for me it's not sufficient in the default 50% strength it applies if you only use the brake lever to engage it. (i'm not sure yet that even 100% is enough for my 500lbs of trike,me,stuff that i'm riding around with these days, much less the 100-200lbs of cargo or dog(s) i carry sometimes. unfortunately one of the controllers i bought failed before i could test that, so i've only got one on there plus a generic one on the other side, until i get it sent in for repair.

the generic one has nice hard regen...but i don't know where to get the same one these days. mine is several years old . it has worked pretty well, though i replaced the capacitors in it at least once cuz they were pretty crappy, and it only works sensorless so it doesn't start from a stop very well by itself. (even though it has hall sensor wires they don't do anything when hooked up, among oher advertised features it doesn't have that it said it should).


i think they still carry the crystalyte controller series, if so those should do what you need, but you should ask them first. but they'll also be expensive, vs what you can find on ebay, etc. the difference is that you will know in advance what they can do, and have support to answer questions before and after you buy them, and a place to send to for warranty repairs.

em3ev also carries controllers that would work, again cost will be higher than ebay, but support/etc exists.

the nucular controllers by vasily here on es seem popular, but probably way more than you need, and i don't know enough about them to recommend or not. same for the powervelocity ones also sold here.


fwiw, any brakes that lockup the wheel are as strong as you can get them, and the drum brakes if they're in-hub types are probably strong enough for that. soimetiems you can improve braking beyond the skid point by changing tire pressure, or changing tire type to get stickier rubber, etc.

if not, then if your frame/fork and wheels have a place for disc brakes, the avid bb7 mountain with 203mm rotors, which are relativley cheap as a set, usually well under $100, will lcokup my front wheel just fine, more braking power than i can actually use. don't yet have the frame rebuilt in the back to accomodate the same thing on the rear wheels,but will do that in the next few months hopefully.

the regen of anything i've tried is nowhere near as strong as the mechanical brakes.

bluem6   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 26 2019 3:31pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by bluem6 » Jan 06 2020 9:03pm

I've tried opening it up but can't find anything that look like "regen"....here are some photos.

Image

Image

Image

Image

bluem6   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 26 2019 3:31pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by bluem6 » Jan 06 2020 9:08pm

Here's the translation using google translate:

"Two rounds of Black and Orange 12-16 tube xxx-steel plug connection"

Image

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 31723
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by amberwolf » Jan 07 2020 12:38am

bluem6 wrote:
Jan 06 2020 9:08pm
Here's the translation using google translate:

"Two rounds of Black and Orange 12-16 tube xxx-steel plug connection"
the actual image you linked says' 12-18 two-wheel, rather than 12-16 xxx-steel.
49342182433_740327d406_o.jpg
49342182433_740327d406_o.jpg (21.24 KiB) Viewed 1090 times

if that is correct, then perhaps it is a link to connect two controllers together so that one of them controls and synchronizes the second, based on control (brake, throttle, etc) inputs to the first. there are higher end controllers taht do that.

what the "12-18" part means, I don't know, nor do I know what the "two rounds of black and orange". But that might mean it's a black wire and an orange wire, and they are specified to be anything from 12g down to 18g.

but that is all guesswork, and any or all of it could be totally wrong.
Last edited by amberwolf on Jan 07 2020 2:34pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
E-HP   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1945
Joined: Nov 01 2018 9:20pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by E-HP » Jan 07 2020 12:47am

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 07 2020 12:38am
if that is correct, then perhaps it is a link to connect two controllers together so that one of them controls and synchronizes the second, based on control (brake, throttle, etc) inputs to the first.
That's interesting. Could that work sort of like a Cycle Analyst, by sending a throttle signal to the (second) controller?

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 31723
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by amberwolf » Jan 07 2020 12:57am

bluem6 wrote:
Jan 06 2020 9:03pm
I've tried opening it up but can't find anything that look like "regen"....here are some photos.
i don't see any of the common labels that've been used for regen activation there, but it doesn't mean it isnt' just anmed differently.

which of those pads do *not* already have wires going to them?

wich of them have wires going to them that you aren't using and/or haven't identified the function of?

whcih of them have wires that you *have* identified?

it may help if you trace the wires that you do know what they're for and cross-reference mark the pads and the wires with their corresponding label names. so put the pad names on the wire chart, and put the wire chart names on the pads. that willhelp show you where things are actually at on those pads, which may cluster related functions in the same area.

knowing which ones don't have wires to them at all means you thenknow what is not being used at all.


some i cna guess at; any or all of these could be wrong.
the 5v and 4.3v and gnd pads are all voltage supply and reference.
uvw are hall signal inputs from the motor.
sd - throttel signa
sl = brake low
sh = brake high
6/12 is 60/120 degree hall spacing
k1 and k2 are the wires fro a three speed switch

there's a chance that xs is the regen enalbe pad if it doesn't have a wire on it yet. if so, you could just bridge it to the ground pad next to it with a bit of solder, and then test the bake leevr to see if it turns on regen now instead of ust disabling the motor.

q could also be it, since it has another pd next to it in line with it that may be inteded to be solder-ujumpered to it--total wild guess, and is proabaly wrong.

n o dea on the other ones. well, ideas uut not based on anything i'd trust yet.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 31723
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by amberwolf » Jan 07 2020 1:01am

E-HP wrote:
Jan 07 2020 12:47am
amberwolf wrote:
Jan 07 2020 12:38am
if that is correct, then perhaps it is a link to connect two controllers together so that one of them controls and synchronizes the second, based on control (brake, throttle, etc) inputs to the first.
That's interesting. Could that work sort of like a Cycle Analyst, by sending a throttle signal to the (second) controller?
teh ca doesnt' work like that.

but controlers liek lebowskis, sevcon, etc., use a data bus between controllers to send relevant controls and whatnot as a serial data stream, like canbus, etc., so that the throttle and ebrake and whatnot control signals are wired only to the first controller, and then that controller converts taht info to data that is passed to all other contrllers wired to teh bus. how each one responds to that data may be up to settings within that specific controller, or it may be a global thing defined by the data sent on the bus.


but i have no idea if that's what these wires on this controller are for--mst likely the translation is just bogus, and has nothing to do with anything it appears to say. ;)

Firedog   10 W

10 W
Posts: 67
Joined: May 26 2017 10:23pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by Firedog » Jan 07 2020 10:50am

The orange and gray wires are likely cruise control: Similar controller https://www.ebay.com/itm/48-72V-1500W-E ... %7Ciid%3A1

If so, it has 2 modes of operation.
1. Connected to a momentary pushbutton switch: push... the controller locks current throttle setting. To turn off, push again, "blip" throttle or touch brakes.
2. if connected continuously, cruise will engage after 5 seconds of throttle in same position. To turn off, "blip" throttle or touch brakes.

Notice that Panalogic controller has yellow/green wire loop marked eabs. I've never seen one with that before, but I suspect that controller has regen braking. Probably cutting the wire disables regen. All a guess.

bluem6   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 26 2019 3:31pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by bluem6 » Jan 07 2020 9:39pm

I am happy to report that I've found the pins. Thank you very much for all the help. I was able to open up the old controller that I had and trace the "EABS" wire...and luckily the controller almost look identical. If someone has this same controller the pin you want to look for is "X" and "DS" in the middle of the PCB.

Image

The "XS" pin is like a "throttle limiter", if you short it to ground no matter what position the 3 speed gear switch it is always on "low"

I've still no idea what the "Two round" wire do but here is the answer from the seller ""Two round" means that you need to accordingly plug in if yours owns 2-wheeler, but ni plug-in if 3-wheeler." It's outputting a 5V like the "low brake" but does nothing when I ground it.

Again, thanks everyone...

danielkr   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Aug 31 2017 3:11pm

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by danielkr » Aug 22 2020 6:38am

You have to think like Chinese. They write in pictures.

Two Rounds. What's round? Wheels.

So 2 "wheels."

... Of tube 12-18. So, two wheels of size 12" and 18", connect this one.

I'm guessing it will mitigate torque on launch or affect the operation of EABS for the smaller wheel sizes. It'd be interesting for sure to find out.

Voltron   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3095
Joined: May 02 2013 4:53pm
Location: Santa Barbara CA

Re: 2000W 48-72V DC brushless controller wiring help

Post by Voltron » Aug 22 2020 8:40pm

The gray wires with the matching black plugs are the self study... You temporarily plug them together for that function.
Whatever the 2 rounds wire is, it's just the single orange one.
49342819247_ac6972b8c1_b.jpg
49342819247_ac6972b8c1_b.jpg (91.22 KiB) Viewed 436 times
It sounds more like a description of the plugs themselves, and the gauges of wire they can handle than what the wires do.

The main reason there are high and low brake outputs is for running 12v brake lights, so you don't need a way to reduce that down to 5v for the motor cutoff, but can just run the same voltage thru the brake switch as the lights use.

Post Reply