Need a list of Ebike electrical components I may have missed for my build

E

Embrown117

1 mW
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
10
I am planning on building a fairly powerful (5kw+) ebike, and have not chosen all of the electrical components yet, but I want to make sure I am not missing anything. I know I will need:
a motor
a battery
an esc / controller
a throttle
a voltage meter of some kind

Is there anything vital I'm missing? I'll grab turn signals and brake lights at some point but in terms of electrical components vital to making the bike work I want to know if I'm missing anything. If you're into PC's at all I'm talking about things like thermal paste, which arent as talked about as the gpu/cpu etc but is just as important and could potentially be missed. Just to clairfy, I am talking about electrical components only.

Thank you!
 
Before you make a list of which parts, you should probably first consider a few other things, to make sure that you get the *right* parts to do what you need the bike to do for you.

These are just a few things to consider, but making a list of them here will help us help you make sure you get the right stuff. Some of the questions overlap. All other project details you can provide will help us help you. The more stuff you don't tell us, the less likely we are to be able to ensure you get everything you need.

I'm asking because most of the people coming here to build something haven't considered any of these things, and don't know that they all matter.

What bike do you have?
If you don't have a bike, what bike do you intend to get?
What exactly do you want the bike to do for you?
What range do you need, at what speed, under what conditions?
What is the minimum time you require for recharging from empty to full?
What speed will you ride at normally?
What is the maximum speed you need out of it, and for how long at a time?
What terrain will you ride on?
What are the roads like, if it's an on-road bike?
What are the path conditions like, if it's an off-road bike?
What kind of slopes or hills do you have; how steep and how long?
What are the wind conditions?
What kinds of weather will it be used in, or have to live outside in?
What do you weigh, and what does any of the stuff you would ever carry with you weigh?
Does it need to carry cargo of any kind?
How to you ride? Do you like to gun the throttle, or just gently acclerate?
Do you require quick acceleration, and if so how quick do you need it to be?
Or does it not matter, and taking a mile to reach 10MPH would be ok?
Do you care about legal status of the bike? (the power level you want is motorcycle territory in most places)
 
amberwolf said:
Before you make a list of which parts, you should probably first consider a few other things, to make sure that you get the *right* parts to do what you need the bike to do for you.

These are just a few things to consider, but making a list of them here will help us help you make sure you get the right stuff. Some of the questions overlap. All other project details you can provide will help us help you. The more stuff you don't tell us, the less likely we are to be able to ensure you get everything you need.

I'm asking because most of the people coming here to build something haven't considered any of these things, and don't know that they all matter.

What bike do you have?
If you don't have a bike, what bike do you intend to get?
What exactly do you want the bike to do for you?
What range do you need, at what speed, under what conditions?
What is the minimum time you require for recharging from empty to full?
What speed will you ride at normally?
What is the maximum speed you need out of it, and for how long at a time?
What terrain will you ride on?
What are the roads like, if it's an on-road bike?
What are the path conditions like, if it's an off-road bike?
What kind of slopes or hills do you have; how steep and how long?
What are the wind conditions?
What kinds of weather will it be used in, or have to live outside in?
What do you weigh, and what does any of the stuff you would ever carry with you weigh?
Does it need to carry cargo of any kind?
How to you ride? Do you like to gun the throttle, or just gently acclerate?
Do you require quick acceleration, and if so how quick do you need it to be?
Or does it not matter, and taking a mile to reach 10MPH would be ok?
Do you care about legal status of the bike? (the power level you want is motorcycle territory in most places)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, I'm actually farther along in this process than my post revealed, I know what I want and have most of the parts picked out already, I just need to know if I'm forgetting anything that new builders tend to overlook other than simply the motor, controller, battery, throttle and battery monitor. I probably should have made this post when I had all the parts picked out haha
 
Embrown117 said:
Thanks for the reply, I'm actually farther along in this process than my post revealed, I know what I want and have most of the parts picked out already, I just need to know if I'm forgetting anything that new builders tend to overlook other than simply the motor, controller, battery, throttle and battery monitor. I probably should have made this post when I had all the parts picked out haha
Click to expand...
Ok. Something to be aware of is that picking out the parts you already list is dependent on the stuff in those questions I listed. If you've already gone thru the process of ensuring you've picked the right parts to satisfy what you need the bike to do for you, then you're set for those. But if you have just picked them based on some other criteria, it may not end up doing what you want. We've seen plenty of new builds that didn't go thru the process that didnt' work as desired.

Even if you've already done the process to pick out the things you already list, it does still matter for us to know the answers to some of those questions as to what other things you will need. Since we don't know what you already have (or plan to get, or how you'll use it), there's stuff we won't know to list that might go with those specific items, or might be stuff you could use a specific version of if we knew what the application was. For example, there's many variants of some things, like volt/etc meters, throttles, torque arms, etc., and which one to recommend varies greatly depending on the purpose of the bike, what you want it to do, how you'll use it, what system you'll be using (controller/motor/etc), and so on.

With the info provided, all I can give is basic suggestions, and you'll have to figure out what to actually use for them. Some have much better options / versions available for certain applications. I may have listed stuff you already have or have thought about.

Heatshrink
Insulating tape
Cable ties
Cable sleeving
Electronic braking engagment device
Throttle control device
Torque arms
Connectors
Watt/Voltmeter
Programming system
Charger
BMS
Chain/belt/sprockets (depending on motor/drive type)
Wiring diagram(s)
Fire prevention/circuit interrupter

Tools and test equipment, including crimpers, soldering tools, screwdrivers, wrenches, "ebike testers", etc., and whatever specific ones your motor/etc system will require for installation and maintenance (which may not be standard tool types, depending on what you're installing).

I've probably forgotten stuff; if I think of anything else I'll edit it onto the end of the list above as I remember it.


If you want lighting, I recommend this thread as a good starting point:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=75171
whether you use what he did or not, how he did it is very useful. ;)

My SB Cruiser thread also has stuff about lighting options, anything from LED strips to LED motorcycle lighting to car headlights to LED "trailer lights", though it is not organized and is scattered throughout the long thread. :/
 
Embrown, how about a fuse or circuit beaker to go between the battery and controller.
 
Embrown117 said:
I'm actually farther along in this process than my post revealed, I know what I want and have most of the parts picked out already,
Click to expand...
This is what this post looks like to me:
1. Embrown: "I want to build a powerful bike. I'm not putting any effort in, since all I can list is a few major components. I want someone to do all the detail work and give me a list of stuff I'll need so I don't have to do any work figuring it out myself".
2. Amberwolf: writes a long and thought provoking post guiding you to help yourself and help us help you more efficiently. Spent far longer than anyone else would, because that's the helpful kind of guy he is.
3. Embrown: "I've already done a lot of work (I promise...), but I'm still not going to give you any more information about it. Nor will I answer any of your reasonable questions. And I still "need to know" a detailed list of every component so I can "DIY" a bike".
4. Me: SMH.
 
serious_sam said:
Embrown117 said:
I'm actually farther along in this process than my post revealed, I know what I want and have most of the parts picked out already,
Click to expand...
*rant*
Click to expand...

im planning on keeping both of the messages he sent as they'll be very helpful in the future. not sure why you think I'm not putting any thought into this, but if you want to know why I didnt list out every component I've already selected is because I didnt think that was necessary for someone to tell me if I've missed anything in the general list of things you need to buy to make an ebike work, and because my exact selection will most likely change as I get closer to buying. Do I need to list the specific motor I've chosen for someone to tell me "hey you may need a BMS for whatever battery you choose.", or "hey you should probably pick up a couple torque arms.".

Anyway I dont want to start any flame wars so I'll stop.
 
mark5 said:
Embrown, how about a fuse or circuit beaker to go between the battery and controller.
Click to expand...

good idea, I'll have to look into doing something like that. Thanks!
 
amberwolf said:
Embrown117 said:
Thanks for the reply, I'm actually farther along in this process than my post revealed, I know what I want and have most of the parts picked out already, I just need to know if I'm forgetting anything that new builders tend to overlook other than simply the motor, controller, battery, throttle and battery monitor. I probably should have made this post when I had all the parts picked out haha
Click to expand...
Ok. Something to be aware of is that picking out the parts you already list is dependent on the stuff in those questions I listed. If you've already gone thru the process of ensuring you've picked the right parts to satisfy what you need the bike to do for you, then you're set for those. But if you have just picked them based on some other criteria, it may not end up doing what you want. We've seen plenty of new builds that didn't go thru the process that didnt' work as desired.

Even if you've already done the process to pick out the things you already list, it does still matter for us to know the answers to some of those questions as to what other things you will need. Since we don't know what you already have (or plan to get, or how you'll use it), there's stuff we won't know to list that might go with those specific items, or might be stuff you could use a specific version of if we knew what the application was. For example, there's many variants of some things, like volt/etc meters, throttles, torque arms, etc., and which one to recommend varies greatly depending on the purpose of the bike, what you want it to do, how you'll use it, what system you'll be using (controller/motor/etc), and so on.

With the info provided, all I can give is basic suggestions, and you'll have to figure out what to actually use for them. Some have much better options / versions available for certain applications. I may have listed stuff you already have or have thought about.

Heatshrink
Insulating tape
Cable ties
Cable sleeving
Electronic braking engagment device
Throttle control device
Torque arms
Connectors
Watt/Voltmeter
Programming system
Charger
BMS
Chain/belt/sprockets (depending on motor/drive type)
Wiring diagram(s)
Fire prevention/circuit interrupter

Tools and test equipment, including crimpers, soldering tools, screwdrivers, wrenches, "ebike testers", etc., and whatever specific ones your motor/etc system will require for installation and maintenance (which may not be standard tool types, depending on what you're installing).

I've probably forgotten stuff; if I think of anything else I'll edit it onto the end of the list above as I remember it.


If you want lighting, I recommend this thread as a good starting point:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=75171
whether you use what he did or not, how he did it is very useful. ;)

My SB Cruiser thread also has stuff about lighting options, anything from LED strips to LED motorcycle lighting to car headlights to LED "trailer lights", though it is not organized and is scattered throughout the long thread. :/
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for all of that amberwolf, all of that (especially that list) will come in handy in the near future :D if you're curious im planning on using a qs205, building my own lithium ion pack, and I have no idea what controller I will go with yet but ill definitely be looking back on all of this as the parts I choose start to finalize and the build comes together. again this may have been a better question to ask once I was more decided on parts but nonetheless everything you've written will be super helpful. Thanks a ton! I think that list you wrote will be super helpful to look back on as I work my way through this.
 
Embrown117 said:
if you're curious im planning on using a qs205, building my own lithium ion pack, and I have no idea what controller I will go with yet but ill definitely be looking back on all of this as the parts I choose start to finalize and the build comes together. again this may have been a better question to ask once I was more decided on parts but nonetheless everything you've written will be super helpful. .
Click to expand...
Just curious: What method are you using to decide what parts to use?



Some more thought-questions, that hopefully show you why it's usually a good idea to be answering *all* of the first set of questions so we can help you. For all we know, you're an engineer that's designed hundreds of bikes and vehicles...or at least someone with a fair bit of experience and thus knows what criteria to use to pick out parts. But based on your posts so far, it doesn't sound like it, and you could probably use our help (which requires us knowing all the details).

If you don't want to, that's fine; I'm sure you can figure it all out on your own, and only have to spend money twice or three times on some expensive parts before you get it working the way you want. (This is a common enough problem people have, spending a few hundred or thousand dollars more to replace stuff that can't do what they want.)


Do you have a lot of money to spend on this project?

Have you ever built a battery before?

Do you know how much capacity you need to go as far as you want?

Do you know what C-rate batteries to use so you don't stress them out under the load they'll have to support?

Do you know what that load will be?

Do you know what the different types of BMSs do, and which ones will do what you want them to?

Do you know what you want them to do?

Do you know what winding you need on that motor to get the speed and torque you need to do what you want, at the voltage you'll be using, in the wheel size you'll have?

Do you know what phase amps the controller will have to put out to run the motor the way you want?

Do you know what battery amps the controller will have to draw to do that?

Do you know what features you need in the controller to accomplish your goals?

Do you know what programmability you might need to set it up for your uses?

Do you know what display you might want to use on it to access that while riding?

Do you know what space you have to fit the controller into?

Do you know what controllers are out there that will do what you want, fit in that space, and be reliable? Etc?
 
amberwolf said:
Embrown117 said:
if you're curious im planning on using a qs205, building my own lithium ion pack, and I have no idea what controller I will go with yet but ill definitely be looking back on all of this as the parts I choose start to finalize and the build comes together. again this may have been a better question to ask once I was more decided on parts but nonetheless everything you've written will be super helpful. .
Click to expand...
Just curious: What method are you using to decide what parts to use?



Some more thought-questions, that hopefully show you why it's usually a good idea to be answering *all* of the first set of questions so we can help you. For all we know, you're an engineer that's designed hundreds of bikes and vehicles...or at least someone with a fair bit of experience and thus knows what criteria to use to pick out parts. But based on your posts so far, it doesn't sound like it, and you could probably use our help (which requires us knowing all the details).

If you don't want to, that's fine; I'm sure you can figure it all out on your own, and only have to spend money twice or three times on some expensive parts before you get it working the way you want. (This is a common enough problem people have, spending a few hundred or thousand dollars more to replace stuff that can't do what they want.)


Do you have a lot of money to spend on this project?

Have you ever built a battery before?

Do you know how much capacity you need to go as far as you want?

Do you know what C-rate batteries to use so you don't stress them out under the load they'll have to support?

Do you know what that load will be?

Do you know what the different types of BMSs do, and which ones will do what you want them to?

Do you know what you want them to do?

Do you know what winding you need on that motor to get the speed and torque you need to do what you want, at the voltage you'll be using, in the wheel size you'll have?

Do you know what phase amps the controller will have to put out to run the motor the way you want?

Do you know what battery amps the controller will have to draw to do that?

Do you know what features you need in the controller to accomplish your goals?

Do you know what programmability you might need to set it up for your uses?

Do you know what display you might want to use on it to access that while riding?

Do you know what space you have to fit the controller into?

Do you know what controllers are out there that will do what you want, fit in that space, and be reliable? Etc?
Click to expand...

I guess a large part of my method is browsing this forum and seeing what other people are using for a fun and powerful but reasonable commuter bike that will be faster than those 1000w kits off ebay, and chose the qs205. There may be something better and my decision isn't final. I've definitely asked myself some more vague questions than those.

Ill probably close this thread, screenshot everything you've written and make sure I can answer All of those questions and come back with that info in however long it takes me to do that.
 
Embrown117 said:
I guess a large part of my method is browsing this forum and seeing what other people are using
Click to expand...
That's a fair way of doing it...but it might lead you down a path that's more expensive or less optimal for your uses or budget, etc., than more specific advice might provide.

But it is the method I recommend for those that don't really know quite what they want, or have enough information for us to help directly, or wont' provide it for whatever reason. That way they at least get an idea of what they'll need, and perhaps how much it might cost. :)


for a fun and powerful but reasonable commuter bike that will be faster than those 1000w kits off ebay, and chose the qs205.
Click to expand...
See, there's some useful information right there, and it was easy to post. ;)

You want to commute.

So you probably have a regular route you'd use, that's reasonably predictable, measurable, with known conditions. Possibly other undefined uses outside of that, but just knowing about the commute means it's easier to determine needs.


You want it to be "fun and powerful".

You want it to be faster than a 1000w kit.

The QS205 by itself isn't faster or more fun and powerful than anything, but could certainly be with the right battery and controller. But you have to know *how much faster* you want it to be, and what exactly you define "fun" as, in order to choose those.

It's a very heavy motor for a bicycle, though; The one I have here is about 30lbs without a wheel around it. Unless you really need many kW of power continously, much lighter motors (probably half the weight) are available that might do what you want, since most motors can handle quite a lot more power in very short bursts than they can continuously.


Ill probably close this thread,
Click to expand...
FWIW, "closing" a thread simply means not posting in it (possibly not reading further replies; you can "unsubscribe" at the top or bottom if you wish, from any thread you've posted in). It remains open and available for anyone to read and post in, in case someone else has a similar question, etc. ;)
 
Embrown117 said:
serious_sam said:
Embrown117 said:
I'm actually farther along in this process than my post revealed, I know what I want and have most of the parts picked out already,
Click to expand...
*rant*
Click to expand...
Anyway I dont want to start any flame wars so I'll stop.
Click to expand...
Weak move. You can't hide from the truth by modifying my post.
.
Embrown117 said:
if you want to know why I didnt list out every component I've already selected is because I didnt think that was necessary for someone to tell me if I've missed anything
Click to expand...
Usually, if you want someone to tell you what you've missed, you need to tell them what you haven't missed first. :roll:
 
serious_sam said:
Embrown117 said:
serious_sam said:
Embrown117 said:
I'm actually farther along in this process than my post revealed, I know what I want and have most of the parts picked out already,
Click to expand...
*rant*
Click to expand...
Anyway I dont want to start any flame wars so I'll stop.
Click to expand...
Weak move. You can't hide from the truth by modifying my post.
.
Embrown117 said:
if you want to know why I didnt list out every component I've already selected is because I didnt think that was necessary for someone to tell me if I've missed anything
Click to expand...
Usually, if you want someone to tell you what you've missed, you need to tell them what you haven't missed first. :roll:
Click to expand...

I'd rather not publicize a flame war
 
Ebike tester - a cheap tool that performs simple functions not easily duplicated that is of great use to diagnose ebike problems that is often a process of elimination. eg Is the throttle working? are all 3 of the hall sensors functioning? is there a short in the motor phases?

Jumper wires with alligator clips

A dc/dc converter that works with the max voltage you plan to run...needed to step down the battery voltage to 12V dc for lights.

a key switch. A good safety feature, especially around kids.
 
John in CR said:
Ebike tester - a cheap tool that performs simple functions not easily duplicated that is of great use to diagnose ebike problems that is often a process of elimination. eg Is the throttle working? are all 3 of the hall sensors functioning? is there a short in the motor phases?

Jumper wires with alligator clips

A dc/dc converter the works with the mas voltage you plan to run...needed to step down the battery voltage to 12V dc for lights.

a key switch. A good safety feature, especially around kids.
Click to expand...

Thanks, hadn't thought of those last two things.
 
I'd add these too.

  • Dielectric Grease
  • Self fusing silicone tape
  • Spiral Cable Wrap (UV Resistant)
  • Zip Ties (UV Resistant)

Good Luck!
 
kauaicycler said:
I'd add these too.

  • Dielectric Grease
  • Self fusing silicone tape
  • Spiral Cable Wrap (UV Resistant)
  • Zip Ties (UV Resistant)

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Why do the cable wrap and zip ties need to be uv resistant? Ill probably pick up both, thanks for the suggestion.
 
Embrown117 said:
kauaicycler said:
I'd add these too.

  • Dielectric Grease
  • Self fusing silicone tape
  • Spiral Cable Wrap (UV Resistant)
  • Zip Ties (UV Resistant)

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Why do the cable wrap and zip ties need to be uv resistant? Ill probably pick up both, thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...

UV Resistant zip ties and cable wrap can withstand direct sunlight for long periods of time.

If you're not familiar with the other two items you might want to check out my build thread link in my signature where I explain why I used them in my build.
 
kauaicycler said:
Embrown117 said:
kauaicycler said:
I'd add these too.

  • Dielectric Grease
  • Self fusing silicone tape
  • Spiral Cable Wrap (UV Resistant)
  • Zip Ties (UV Resistant)

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Why do the cable wrap and zip ties need to be uv resistant? Ill probably pick up both, thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...

UV Resistant zip ties and cable wrap can withstand direct sunlight for long periods of time.

If you're not familiar with the other two items you might want to check out my build thread link in my signature where I explain why I used them in my build.
Click to expand...
Ill do that, thanks
 
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