e-Tricycle for adults

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Voltron   100 MW

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Voltron » Sep 13 2020 7:51pm

That fat trike looks fun!

Here's how mine looks...
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The second picture is after putting it in party mode lol.

This particular one, the diff is incredibly beefy. Check out the size of motor chain compared to the pedal chain... It's big.
Last edited by Voltron on Sep 13 2020 8:24pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 13 2020 7:53pm

ES-MeridianAfter.jpg
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This is my mother's trike Schiwnn Meridian bought it for $200 new. She had balance issues also, had to give up her bicycle.
I added Bafang G311 (front, no traction issues) and grin's 20a Grinfineon controller, CA3, PAS and thumb throttle. Moved the basket back couple inches and mounted 48V (don't remember AH) battery in the frame out of the way. fold the basket down and the battery comes right out. She has been riding it for 1.5 years 10-15 mile rides on the greenway. She peddles but on hills or whatever she uses the throttle. I have max watts set at 700w thought abut lowering it to 650w. I'm sure she can do 30-40 miles on a charge. I don't charge to high or run to low. I road it to the auto parts store last week to exchange a car battery. It has a roomy basket.
Not as stable as my tadpole.

Single speed she does not like the fancy stuff like shifter or switches so it is quite basic.
Last edited by ZeroEm on Sep 13 2020 7:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Matador   100 kW

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Matador » Sep 13 2020 7:56pm

Just saw an awsome old video to understand how a differential works:

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Matador » Sep 13 2020 8:05pm

Voltron wrote:
Sep 13 2020 7:51pm
That fat trike looks fun!

Here's how mine looks...
resize.jpg
KIMG0387.jpg
KIMG0367.jpg

The second picture is after putting it in party mode lol.

This particular one, the diff is incredibly beefy. Check out the size of motor chain compared to the prefer chain... It's big.
Looks quite comfy ! Seat looks like it has a lot of support. Indeed looks like heavy duty diff and chain. Serious stuff, looks quite durable ! Very interested ! What brand/model of trike is it ?

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Matador » Sep 13 2020 8:09pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Sep 13 2020 7:53pm
ES-MeridianAfter.jpg

This is my mother's trike Schiwnn Meridian bought it for $200 new. She had balance issues also, had to give up her bicycle.
I added Bafang G311 (front, no traction issues) and grin's 20a Grinfineon controller, CA3, PAS and thumb throttle. Moved the basket back couple inches and mounted 48V (don't remember AH) battery in the frame out of the way. fold the basket down and the battery comes right out. She has been riding it for 1.5 years 10-15 mile rides on the greenway. She peddles but on hills or whatever she uses the throttle. I have max watts set at 700w thought abut lowering it to 650w. I'm sure she can do 30-40 miles on a charge. I don't charge to high or run to low. I road it to the auto parts store last week to exchange a car battery. It has a roomy basket.
Not as stable as my tadpole.

Single speed she does not like the fancy stuff like shifter or switches so it is quite basic.
That's reassuring that the front hub is not an issue. I'll have my sister try the median in the shop to know if she likes the confort and feel and we'll probably start from there. Still I'm quite impressed with differential technology. We'll have to talk about the pros and cons, but budget is probably not at issue. The lack of gears though might be an issue with the meridian and she would like to be able to adjust pedal cadence to get some workout.

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 13 2020 8:14pm

median may be the low cost solution but have $1200 in it. there are better trikes, was not sure how much she would ride, it's less every year.

Well you know ebikes endless combinations.
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Voltron » Sep 13 2020 8:17pm

It's a Raptor mobility trike, made for really obese people to get exercise. It actually rode better with two people or the springs were too stiff!
I took the stock seat off and used a scooter seat for tandem riding.
The rear wheels are insane. They're each two steel rims, one welded inside the other, it could easily hold 350 lbs.
$20 on Craigslist broken down and abandoned at an apartment complex. 👍

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 13 2020 8:19pm

Matador wrote:
Sep 13 2020 7:44pm
I wonder if the differential can survive the abuse of handeling the power of a BBSHD ? (I already know chain snapping can be a problem, I snapped a few myself on my BBSHD 700C hybride converted bike).
These diffs are much more robust than the other components in a bicycle chain drive. Pedal trikes are not the only thing they were made to do. They see use on go-karts, lawn equipment, etc.

They’re mechanically different than right angle differentials for drive shafts. Essentially, they’re simple reversing gears, made so that when one shaft rotates relative to the gear case, the other one rotates in the opposite direction.

I have worked with a bunch of e-trikes. Most, but not all, have been pedicabs. They've been a diverse mix of front hub motors (or rear motors on tadpoles), Cyclone 4kW to rear differential, BBSHD, Stokemonkey, and hub motor with chain reduction to rear axle. The winners for reliability have been front hub motor, and Cyclone to rear diff. Hub motors are easier, quieter, and lower maintenance, and Cyclones have much better performance.

In your application, speed over 15 mph will be more of a safety liability than a practical benefit. So that takes away the advantage of a rear axle Cyclone.

The reasons I’d use a front hub for a project like yours:
- ease of implementation/low cost
- low effort 2WD
- powered tight radius turns
- reversing possible with direct drive hub
- no need to reinvent rear axle
- free choice of pedal gearing
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 13 2020 8:27pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Sep 13 2020 8:14pm
median may be the low cost solution but have $1200 in it. there are better trikes, was not sure how much she would ride, it's less every year.
If you mean Schwinn Meridian, those are pretty awful trikes. The most grievous shortcoming is the wheels, which are very weak and damage prone. The hubs are proprietary, so to upgrade to better rear wheels you have to swap the axle for one from a Husky or Sun Baja trike. It gets expensive, but you still have a mostly crappy trike afterwards.

They use those things a lot for non-motorized parades in the Mardi Gras, and they break down a lot there too.

I suppose an old lady is the best prospective user of that model, and I’m glad you seem to have sorted out something satisfactory for her needs. It just disappoints me every time a customer brings in a Schwinn Meridian that needs more than new tires and a chain, or brake work, and there’s nothing cost-effective I can do to fix it.
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 13 2020 9:21pm

Voltron wrote:
Sep 13 2020 8:17pm
It's a Raptor mobility trike, made for really obese people to get exercise.
I remember that dingdong from the Yahoo power-assist group.
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 13 2020 9:44pm

Balmorhea » Sep 13 2020 8:27pm
ZeroEm wrote: ↑Sep 13 2020 8:14pm
median may be the low cost solution but have $1200 in it. there are better trikes, was not sure how much she would ride, it's less every year.
If you mean Schwinn Meridian, those are pretty awful trikes. The most grievous shortcoming is the wheels, which are very weak and damage prone. The hubs are proprietary, so to upgrade to better rear wheels you have to swap the axle for one from a Husky or Sun Baja trike. It gets expensive, but you still have a mostly crappy trike afterwards.

They use those things a lot for non-motorized parades in the Mardi Gras, and they break down a lot there too.

I suppose an old lady is the best prospective user of that model, and I’m glad you seem to have sorted out something satisfactory for her needs. It just disappoints me every time a customer brings in a Schwinn Meridian that needs more than new tires and a chain, or brake work, and there’s nothing cost-effective I can do to fix it.
Well I don't like the factory wheels and try to stay off of it but it's great for her. only put 20 miles on it this year might be a while before it needs a chain.
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Papa » Sep 14 2020 1:39am

Matador wrote:
Sep 13 2020 7:44pm
... My sister told me she wanted to invest a substantial amount (2500-5000$ is the budget) so I understand she want a relatively good quality and durable product. She said she was looking either for an e-trike or even a powered mobility device (which go for around 6000$).
If she is serious about spending that much, then please buy the best trike her bucks can buy... because she's worth it. Then add assist to suit.

The pinnacle of top-of-the-line trikes are the German built Hase. Start here: https://hasebikes.com/47-1-Canada.html

The Hase Trigo-Up (image below) starts at around $2700. There is also a Trigo model with USS (Under Seat Steering).

Adding factory optional E-assist: https://youtu.be/G5-dVduDGsk
Adding factory optional differential (for 2WD) https://youtu.be/gd4V2-UXU54
And the dizzying array of adjustability & 'bells & whistles' https://youtu.be/Cnua_SQUpr0
Image
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by LeftieBiker » Sep 14 2020 2:38pm

I'm not sure that she would be able to easily ride a recumbent with her disabilities. At best, it would be hard for her to get on and off the bike.

I take my my earlier suggestion of using the Meridian, or at least the rolling frame. There are too many crappy parts on the bike, and if the frame is too flexible, then there are NO good parts.

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Papa » Sep 14 2020 5:12pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sep 14 2020 2:38pm
.... At best, it would be hard for her to get on and off the bike.
Clearly you've never ridden one, let alone, owned one. Nor, I suspect, even know what the extent of her abilities are. The seat height on the Hase Trigo, is, what I refer to as, 'kitchen chair' height - about 18-20". The following video speaks for its self: Starting at 1:50, where it clearly demonstrates mounting: https://youtu.be/JtAQ7KUCrYo (note how the young man swings the handlebar away, then sits). The Meridian's average seat height is approximately 36" (depending on inseam length).
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by LeftieBiker » Sep 14 2020 6:48pm

Papa wrote:
Sep 14 2020 5:12pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sep 14 2020 2:38pm
.... At best, it would be hard for her to get on and off the bike.
Clearly you've never ridden one, let alone, owned one. Nor, I suspect, even know what the extent of her abilities are. The seat height on the Hase Trigo, is, what I refer to as, 'kitchen chair' height - about 18-20". The following video speaks for its self: Starting at 1:50, where it clearly demonstrates mounting: https://youtu.be/JtAQ7KUCrYo (note how the young man swings the handlebar away, then sits). The Meridian's average seat height is approximately 36" (depending on inseam length).
I'm talking about her having to stretch her legs out to pedal, mainly, and about how the unusual, unfamiliar riding position might be hard for her. I'll take your word for the seat height, as there is nothing to use for comparison in the photo. I did ride a recumbent once or twice - an electric one, in fact: it was fine for me, except for being below traffic. Clearly you are a little bit on the zealous side. ;)

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Papa » Sep 14 2020 7:21pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sep 14 2020 6:48pm
I'm talking about her having to stretch her legs out to pedal, mainly,...
That was never mentioned in your previous post. Reads to me you're biased, and apparently anti-recumbent. I've well over 25 years experience (both building and riding), specifically recumbents. And it all started with a serious whip lash injury when I was 16 YO... and instantly became unable to ride a bicycle. Throughout those 'recumbent' years, I've never wrecked one, or even scratched the paint on one - and likewise, never encountered a problem with fellow road users.
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sep 14 2020 6:48pm
... and about how the unusual, unfamiliar riding position might be hard for her.
Really??... yet another wild guess?...

Image

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sep 14 2020 6:48pm
I'll take your word for the seat height, as there is nothing to use for comparison in the photo.
Look again at the image I posted of the Ligo-Up sideview... pretty easy to compare the seat height to the 20" diameter of the rear wheel.
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by donn » Sep 14 2020 7:53pm

I'm a recumbent rider too, and if I ever wanted to ride a tricycle I'd sure look into the Hase options first. They've been doing it a long time and have a very good reputation. I sure wouldn't go for the above seat steering option, though. I've had a chance to compare above and under steering on the same bicycle, and I found that my back and rear are less tense when my arms are down, so I sit more comfortably in the seat. The above seat steering mast was somewhat in the way when trying to get on or off, too. Under seat steering is a good thing, and it's almost universal in this type of tricycle.

I would not however guarantee this type of tricycle will work fine regardless of infirmity. That's something you have to sort out for yourself.

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by Papa » Sep 14 2020 8:11pm

donn wrote:
Sep 14 2020 7:53pm
I sure wouldn't go for the above seat steering option, though. I've had a chance to compare above and under steering on the same bicycle, and I found that my back and rear are less tense when my arms are down, so I sit more comfortably in the seat. The above seat steering mast was somewhat in the way when trying to get on or off, too. Under seat steering is a good thing, and it's almost universal in this type of tricycle.

I would not however guarantee this type of tricycle will work fine regardless of infirmity. That's something you have to sort out for yourself.
Steering configuration is personal choice. Me?.. I ride the above seat bars (ASS).

1. Gives me a line-of-sight mounting perch for instruments and mirrors.
2. Far less awkward to maneuver the trike when unmounted. You can walk it around without bending over.
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by LeftieBiker » Sep 14 2020 8:24pm

I'm not "anti-recumbent" beyond not thinking they are a good idea in traffic. I am thinking that an older woman with a severe physical infirmity might not enjoy having to learn to ride an entirely new type of vehicle at her age. If that makes me "anti-recumbent" then I guess I just never realized how Evil I am...

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by donn » Sep 14 2020 11:13pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sep 14 2020 8:24pm
learn to ride an entirely new type of vehicle
That seems to me like the least of your worries. I gather she's in on this, and it really depends on what she thinks she'll like, but with tricycles there really isn't much to learn, is there? If she's game, she'll be fine.

Nor would I worry about traffic ... hm, she's not going to be out in traffic so much, right? so that's a general comment that would apply for example if you were to consider riding a recumbent bicycle? Not to worry - they can be very low, but they don't have to be. My head is level with auto drivers' - a little lower than truck height, higher than passenger car.

I was just thinking that height and position matters a lot when you have issues, and a "delta" trike like a Hase might be a problem - or it might be a gigantic win, just couldn't say. You're probably right about getting in and out of the more common "tadpole" design where the rider lies between the two front wheels.

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 15 2020 7:55am

LeftieBiker » Sep 14 2020 8:24pm

I'm not "anti-recumbent" beyond not thinking they are a good idea in traffic. I am thinking that an older woman with a severe physical infirmity might not enjoy having to learn to ride an entirely new type of vehicle at her age. If that makes me "anti-recumbent" then I guess I just never realized how Evil I am...
The meridian works good for my mother, light use. but the drive system would not hold up under a middrive. The drive wheel has like a welded washer to shaft that drives the wheel.

Hase Trigo looks like an easy bike to ride. She will need to try out a few before committing.
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by amberwolf » Sep 22 2020 1:45am

FWIW, I'm one of those people having a harder and harder time getting up from any non-standing position. THe closer to aa "upright chair" sitting position I'm in, the easier it is, so that's why I use the seating style, height, and position I do on the SB Cruiser trike.

As long as desired speeds are not more than around 10-15mph, most of the trike designs that let you sit as if in a typical upright chair (like kitchen table chairs, etc), will probably work for many people that have this issue. If higher speeds are needed, a lower COG design is probably a better idea, or else it can easily tip and crash with any dodge, turn, swerve, etc. (and this can happen REALLY fast once it starts).

With the additional problem of balance, a chair- or bench- style seat is likely to be much easier to get on or off of than a saddle, and easier to stay on while riding or sitting as well. (another reason I use what I do).


For the rest of the trike design, it will depend on the specific usage scenario, terrain, speeds, etc., for which type will work better for her.

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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 22 2020 9:30am

Important to keep top speed limited in the 20-25kmh range, on an upright trike, (tipping around turns... until you learn to lean your body).

I explored several etrike options - eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

Budget being my primary concern!
Ideas include:
Spoke kit mounted gear reduction brush motor driving freewheeling rear wheel ~$100, minus battery and motor mount
(freewheel, or direct drive as braking down hills)
Dual rear motors switching from 24V series to 48v parallel as turbo function
1s (3.6V) momentary contact switch as creeper reverse (on direct drive brush motor)
+ much more
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Re: e-Tricycle for adults

Post by qwerkus » Sep 23 2020 12:53am

DrkAngel wrote:
Sep 22 2020 9:30am
Important to keep top speed in the 20-25kmh range, on an upright trike, (tipping around turns... until you learn to lean your body).
This! Who in his right mind would suggest a bbshd for an elderly person with a disability !?! Even a 02 can be very powerful. Go for a 500w front hub motor or a heavily limited mid drive. The drive system is actually not that important (provided it's not dangerous!). Ride position, seat comfort, ease to mount/unmount are much more important in your case. Total system weight might also be of some relevance, as she might have to push it.

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