Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

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wizardchess   100 µW

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CA3 shows incorrect speed

Post by wizardchess » Oct 01 2020 9:18am

This is my first build, so I expect I've configured something incorrectly, though I haven't figured out what yet.

In short, I have a CA3 connected to a baserunner connected to a Bafang G60. When the wheel is on the ground/under load, the speed is incorrectly detected as being over 100 - 300MPH. Once it gets up to speed, it seems to settle down to a more reasonable number, but I haven't had a chance to compare it to a GPS speedo yet.

If I put the bike on a hoist and engage the throttle, this doesn't happen. I've gone through all of the baserunner and CA settings and can't find an obvious explanation for why this is happening, so I'm hoping smarter people than me will have some ideas on what I can do to troubleshoot this. For the record, the speedo poles is set to 6.

In case it's relevant, I was getting virtually zero power from the motor when it was under load initially, but I believe that was caused by a misconfigured current limit (decimal in the wrong position) and doesn't seem to be happening now. However, it does take a few seconds for the bike to get up to speed and seems slow to respond to throttle/PAS input.

wizardchess   100 µW

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Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by wizardchess » Oct 02 2020 11:39pm

I'm trying to troubleshoot an inconsistent issue where I can't get much more than 500W going into the motor after riding for several miles. Phase amps is set to 50A on the baserunner, CA battery current is set to 25A and watt limit is set to 1500W. I can reliably pull around 1300W before the amp limit kicks in, but generally keep the motor watts at 750 or less while I'm cruising and try not to go over 1000W except in short bursts to make it up a hill. I'm happy as long as I can maintain about 25MPH or faster on a flat road with PAS.

The issue I'm experiencing happens inconsistently where the motor watts is abruptly limited to 500W - 600W regardless of PAS or throttle input. The diagnostic screen doesn't show any limits are active when this happens and I can't find any explanation in the baserunner/phaserunner or CA documentation that would cause this behavior. When it happens, the throttle is very slow to engage the motor and get up to speed from a dead stop. Trying to make it up a hill when this happens results in me having to climb on the pedals to keep enough momentum to reach the top.

The issue goes away after turning everything off and letting the bike sit for roughly an hour (probably less, but I haven't done any extensive testing), and I've had it recover inexplicably once where I was able to get the expected motor power for the remainder of my ride. I'm planning on upgrading a couple components in the near future that I expect will help me narrow down the cause and likely indirectly solve this problem, but in the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out what's causing this to happen so I can prevent it from occurring.

HrKlev   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by HrKlev » Oct 03 2020 2:27am

Whats the temperature on the baserunner? If it goes into thermal rollback it will cut the power without showing it on the cycle analyst screen. If it is accessible, try to get a temp reading of the metal part on the baserunner, or at least a feel with your hand. Not sure how much it would take, but if it is no way for the controller to get rid of some heat, it will build up slowly even on low power levels.
DIY lightweight mid drive with torque sensing build thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=107622

wizardchess   100 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by wizardchess » Oct 03 2020 8:58pm

HrKlev wrote:
Oct 03 2020 2:27am
Whats the temperature on the baserunner? If it goes into thermal rollback it will cut the power without showing it on the cycle analyst screen. If it is accessible, try to get a temp reading of the metal part on the baserunner, or at least a feel with your hand. Not sure how much it would take, but if it is no way for the controller to get rid of some heat, it will build up slowly even on low power levels.
Not sure. The baserunner is kept in a hollow channel in the downtube designed for the controller to and not easily accessible. I would have to disconnect the battery and remove several small machine screws to take off a cover to get access to it. In any case, I had to take the metal cover off as it was preventing the baserunner from fitting in the frame. Is there no way I can use the CA to check the baserunner temperature just to be certain I can rule it out as the cause?

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ZeroEm   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by ZeroEm » Oct 03 2020 9:20pm

you will need to monitor the temp of the baserunner, the CA will not show baserunners thermal roll back.
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goatman   10 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by goatman » Oct 04 2020 12:50am

what voltage is your pack? do you have the z9 or L10 baserunner

https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/baserunner.html

wizardchess   100 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by wizardchess » Oct 04 2020 3:53am

goatman wrote:
Oct 04 2020 12:50am
what voltage is your pack? do you have the z9 or L10 baserunner

https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/baserunner.html
52V. Z9, but I'll be upgrading it to the L10 in the future.

wizardchess   100 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by wizardchess » Oct 04 2020 4:07am

ZeroEm wrote:
Oct 03 2020 9:20pm
you will need to monitor the temp of the baserunner, the CA will not show baserunners thermal roll back.
I explained in another post that the baserunner isn't accessible and can't be monitored. It takes roughly 5 - 10 minutes of disassembly just to get access to it.

HrKlev   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by HrKlev » Oct 04 2020 6:33am

You could perhaps plug in the programming cable in the baserunner, and assemble everything witht the USB plug easy accessible. Then go for a ride till it is cutting out, and plug your laptop in. I think the controller temperature is available in the dashboard view in the baserunner software. Then you know if it is a temperature problem or not.
DIY lightweight mid drive with torque sensing build thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=107622

goatman   10 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by goatman » Oct 04 2020 9:27am

i wonder if you get the phaserunner suite in your smart phone and check it on the road with your phone instead of laptop?

wizardchess   100 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst/Baserunner limits motor power at random

Post by wizardchess » Oct 09 2020 5:10pm

goatman wrote:
Oct 04 2020 9:27am
i wonder if you get the phaserunner suite in your smart phone and check it on the road with your phone instead of laptop?
This ended up being the solution. I already had an OTG cable, just had to pull out the baserunner and run the TRRS cable through the frame into it, then put it all back together. Sure enough, it was overheating. Threw on a custom heat sink and it isn't a problem anymore.

wizardchess   100 µW

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Posts: 7
Joined: Oct 01 2020 9:06am

CA3 speed/watt limits cause unreliable operation

Post by wizardchess » Oct 09 2020 5:42pm

As of a day ago, I've run into an inexplicable issue where the watt limit is active even though the CA shows the motor watts are far below the limit I have set (1500W). Trying to engage the motor via PAS never gets the motor above 300W, even with the PAS level maxed. Prior to this happening, I could easily hit over 1000W just from pedaling. The setup menu shows that the PAS poles are being properly detected while pedaling, but as soon as I hit around 200W, I stop getting assistance and the watt limit is active on the diagnostic screen. Initially, I noticed the watt limit was active when I wasn't moving/while the PAS wasn't engaged and the CA showed a 2W consumption. After doing a zero cal, the diagnostic screen showed the watt limit wasn't active at rest anymore, but I'm still having this issue where it turns on at low watt consumption far below the 1500W limit I have set. Even more confusing, the watt limit goes away if I engage the throttle. As a result, I can't keep a consistent speed over 10MPH without the throttle engaged and have to use it pretty much any time I'm cruising.

Aside from this issue, I'm also dealing with the speed limit (which is maxed out to 500MPH) being active at low RPMs but eventually stabilizes roughly above 100RPM. The best I can deduce, it's noise in the hall signal caused by the phase wires. I'm not sure how I can prevent this from happening, although I have more motivation is resolving the issue with the watt limit. The speed limit just prevents the motor from engaging quickly from a dead stop. While annoying, it's less of an issue.

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