building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

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galp   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by galp » May 04 2021 11:50am

Hey!

Max voltage is going to be 24S or ~100V. Currents up to 350A should be no issue with water cooling but you'll need some high performance thermal interface materials to connect fets to water block. It's not the easiest task but is certainly doable. You probably won't run into pcb overheating issues with battery current up to 300A with standard copper layer thickness. For higher currents you can always use thicker internal layers (3-4 oz). Using a rectangular copper busbar also opens another point of thermal connection to heatsink. It will cool the pcb which will increase the limits but also cool the capacitors.

Vesc firmware is limited for my hardware config. The limiting factor is the maximum current shunts are able to measure which is I think 412A. You can further increase this by choosing shunts with lower resistance (like 150u) and modifying the firmware slightly.

I don't know what kind of axle it was. It was from a qs205 clone from aliexpress I think.

Hope this helps!

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by erdogank » May 07 2021 2:12pm

Hey,

reverse direction is working using ADC settings DutyCycle Reverse Button and servo to GND,
only one problem left, even the brake current and the regen current set to 0A at very low speed motor is
trying to regen causing big vibration what might be the reason for this?

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » May 11 2021 5:53pm

Galp:
Version v1.1 is now up on my website. It has that stupid inverter removed and silkscreen fixed. Anyone ordering the PCBs should use the v1.1 gerbers.
have you tested this version? Just curious if you made this version of the board and ran them.

owen

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by turkeyspoontaco » May 12 2021 9:29am

Found another HW bug, R73 and C84 designators are swapped, but this is just filtering for the PPM input, not sure if anyone has used it yet.

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by erdogank » May 12 2021 12:35pm

erdogank wrote:
May 07 2021 2:12pm
Hey,

reverse direction is working using ADC settings DutyCycle Reverse Button and servo to GND,
only one problem left, even the brake current and the regen current set to 0A at very low speed motor is
trying to regen causing big vibration what might be the reason for this?
Changing ADC-General - Negative Ramping Time from 0.10s to 3s solve the regen problem now the regen is smooth.

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » May 16 2021 12:33pm

The updated files that Galp supplied were very useful. One issue is, at least for now, is these are just gerbers. Users dont have his updated kicad files which are useful for making BOM and position files in the case were you interested in having your boards made by PCBA.

So I'm uploading a zip file that contains kicad files, BOM, part position file, and some instructions for how it was generated.

I have sent these for PCBA to PCBway, and I'll report back if that process goes well. (Believe me, there are LOTS of places it can go wrong).

NOTES:
------------------------------------------
This board started with Galp's v1.0
Modifications to schematic:
-changed pins of the crystal (to connect circuit to 1 & 3)
-tied pin 2 of crystal to ground
-changed crystal to (ECS-80-18-30B-AGN-TR)
-trace to pin 2 of crystal to ground
-changed footprint of crystal
-removed U7, fixed traces
-minor changes to silk
-added "MANUFACTURER", "PART", "SMD/TH" into symbol editor, populated all those fields
dumped all the parts into single column, cut and pasted into mouser BOM maker
cut and pasted all the part manufacturers from mouser spreadsheet into the symbol editor
edited the SMD/TH column
-the original part for USBLC6-2P6 was wrong
-the foot print for:
C34-C39, C54, C62, C64, C76, C78, C83, C89, C95, C99, C102, C103, C106, C109
should be 0603, changed the part to: 810-C1608X8L0J225K08
-added part numbers for the LEDs

------------------------------
MAKING THE BOM FROM KICAD EESCHEMA
For MacOS,
copy my_BOM2csv.xsl plugin to here:
/Applications/KiCad/kicad.app/Contents/SharedSupport/plugins

Got to Tools->create BOM

Load up your custom script

Be sure to change:

"%O"
to
"%O.csv"

Manually:
-touch up the column headings if needed (in my case there were extras)
-sort on SMD/TH to find rows to remove
-save as excel file
-remove csv old files

total parts: 226
------------------------------
MAKING THE CENTROID FILE FROM PCBNEW:
File --> fabrication outputs --> footprint position file
Select: CSV, millimeters, single file for board
Select: "Include footprints with SMD pad even if not marked Surface Mount"
(gets R31, R32, R33)
Open the resulting file, do these steps manually

-You have to remove some stray parts
remove all refs beginning with J, FED
-Rearrange columns so the fits the headings in the next step:

- add:
"*RefDes<TAB>MidX (mm)<TAB>MidY (mm)<TAB>Package<TAB>Rotation<TAB>Top/Bottom<TAB>Val"
to the top

- save as excel file
- remove csv file

total parts: 226
------------------------------=
PCBway wants all the components could be clustered on to one line

Use bom2grouped_csv from eeschema
Import into excel
Sort on SMD/TH
Remove all non-SMD parts

Total parts: 226
------------------------------
Costs: per board at PCBway is:
$196 for parts (smd only, does not include through-hole parts)
$77 for other costs (shipping, assembly)
Attachments
BESC1.0_may2021.zip
(1.83 MiB) Downloaded 11 times

turkeyspoontaco   100 µW

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by turkeyspoontaco » May 21 2021 11:07pm

I had a hard time sourcing the gate driver, so I settled for the UCC21521DWR. This seems to be the exact same but with an enable instead of disable pin. I ended up using the inverter, U7, so it is useful to probably keep that footprint on the board, with an option of bypassing it via a solder jumper or zero ohm jumper.

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » May 23 2021 12:58pm

yes that's interesting you mention that, when PCBway sent me the quote for parts, they increased the cost of the gate drivers by 400% -- so it's good to hear some independent validation for why.

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by xwx » May 24 2021 9:52pm

18$ for STM32 not to much ?

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by xwx » May 25 2021 12:04pm

owhite wrote:
May 16 2021 12:33pm
The updated files that Galp supplied were very useful. One issue is, at least for now, is these are just gerbers. Users dont have his updated kicad files which are useful for making BOM and position files in the case were you interested in having your boards made by PCBA.

So I'm uploading a zip file that contains kicad files, BOM, part position file, and some instructions for how it was generated.

I have sent these for PCBA to PCBway, and I'll report back if that process goes well. (Believe me, there are LOTS of places it can go wrong).
Hi,
I'm also try to order some boards from jlcpcb have a question regarding BOM and CPL, jlcpcb doesn't identifie all the elements and placement are this files done for different manufacture ? and also you file version is 1.0 it means it uses the older 1.0 schematics there are no fixes from 1.1 ?

I checked with PCBway it's almost double the price for PCB didn't checked the components.

Thanks.

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » May 26 2021 10:19am

So I used the 1.0 schematics for my order because Galp did not publish the kicad files for 1.1. I needed the kicad files to make the files for PCBA.

I think you are asking about how to make the CPL files for jlcpcb, but I'm not sure about your exact question. If you need to make the CPL files for jlcpcb, I can assist if you give me an example.

I would not compare the cost of PCBway to jlcpcb until you get a price quote from both that includes the cost of the components.

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by xwx » May 26 2021 11:44am

Hi, this is sample of BOM and CPL:
JLCSMT_Sample_BOM1.xlsx
(9 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
JLCSMT_Sample_CPL1 (1).xlsx
(8.79 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
I modified your clp it found almost all parts but not sure that everything in place in his new gerber there are no element placements ?

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » May 26 2021 12:32pm

not sure that everything in place in his new gerber there are no element placements ?
that's correct. you can't be sure that the position of all components for the gerber files for 1.1 will match the positions for my files.

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galp   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by galp » May 26 2021 12:57pm

Latest KiCad files are on github. Hope this helps.

https://github.com/galpavlin/BESC-G2

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by xwx » May 26 2021 1:25pm

Cool thanks.

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » May 27 2021 8:55am

Galp, have you tested 1.1? Just curious if you've built boards from those files.

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by xwx » May 27 2021 6:21pm

Would be good if smd components would be on one side, will be cheaper to produce.
I saw on you github page that you had only fet module was it prototype and controling on other board or it was only to show power side of the board.

turkeyspoontaco   100 µW

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by turkeyspoontaco » Jun 06 2021 2:23pm

owhite wrote:
May 27 2021 8:55am
Galp, have you tested 1.1? Just curious if you've built boards from those files.
I downloaded the files from his site, v1.1, and finished assembling and programming them a couple weeks ago. No issues here.

On another note, anyone have extra STM32F405RGT6? Luckily I had a friend send me the two I needed, but another friend is looking for two more. They are out of stock from most of the main distributers, with a lead time of several months. If anyone is able to send me some he would greatly appreciate it. Obviously willing to pay for them and shipping (to US).

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » Jun 07 2021 7:36am

Thank you, that's very helpful. And I dont have any new STM32F405RGT6s but I do have a few toasted boards. (Catastrophic shorts probably between heat sinks of FETs and ground) -- but they still seem to program and light up the LEDs. I could put the boards in toaster over and yank their CPU if you're interested -- alternatively if you want to recover other parts you could have the boards.

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by turkeyspoontaco » Jun 09 2021 9:44pm

I ended up finding some Olimex dev boards for $18 a piece. Unfortunately he ordered them and they shipped already, but thank you for letting me know - I'll keep it in mind.

What encoders are you using with them? I'm planning to use AS5047s. The connection should be the same as any other VESC, right? H1-SCK, H2-MISO, H3-CS?

Ah - I just figured out I have to manually subscribe to threads to receive notifications. Sorry for the slow replies.

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owhite   100 W

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » Jun 10 2021 5:49pm

I just used the hall sensor that came off of the QS205 hub motor. Plugged right in, worked like a champ. I have used AS5047s for other projects and I was not aware they could be used for VESCs. That's good to know.

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by turkeyspoontaco » Jun 10 2021 6:25pm

Hm, that's just UVW, right?

To use a SPI encoder I found this:
https://vesc-project.com/node/950

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Re: building the BESC - 100V, 400A motor controller

Post by owhite » Jun 10 2021 9:22pm

I think if I take your question correctly UVW is tied to each hall sensor, yes.

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