Is there a way to fix a Luna ludicrous v1? No pas or throttle, clicking noise

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Dec 4, 2022
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Hey guy's,

I'm new to the group here. I've come with a question of is it possible to replace fets in a blown Luna ludicrous v1 controller. I haven't found much information out there on how to do it if infact it's possible.

The controller does turn on, but there is no throttle or pas and there's a slight clicking when I hit the throttle. I am also able to get into the programming of the controller. If there's a known process to fixing it I would love to know!

Thanks in advance! 😁
 

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AFAIK it's a BBSHD controller, so any repair thread for those applies to this too, as far as the general process. While I don't have a specific link to the info you may need, there are some posts in this search
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=bbshd+fet%2A&ch=-1&start=25
that have internals pics, and possibly more details (I didn't read them, just looked for applicable images).

This thread has good images too
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58898

This search may also have useful info:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=bbshd+fix%2A&ch=-1&start=1
 
Whether it is a v1 (as in your thread title and first post) or v1.5 (as in your second post), it's still a BBSHD controller that has been "upgraded", so the info about BBSHD controllers still applies to it, if you want to look thru it for some guidance on how you might be able to repair it. ;)

I don't have experience repairing one personally, so can't give you direct specific advice on the sequence of actions, other than testing the FETs via the directions at http://ebikes.ca Learn - Troubleshooting, and then carefully removing the potting around the FETs to access them for replacement if necessary.
 
I'm begining to think my battery might be the problem. It's nothing special upp 13ah 30amp continuous. The clicking I hear sounds like my bms going in some sort of protection. The controller has a blinking light and I'm not sure what it indicates.

Do you know if I need a better battery to run this ludi 1.5? (It says v1.4 in the resin) I would think I would be able to make a motor spin at least.. this has really stressed me out as I almost sold it for nothing and I'm not even sure what it is I have. But what I do know is that it turns on.
 
If it is working correctly, then a battery going into a protection mode will shut off it's output entirely, which cuts all power from the system, no lights, nothing.

If your controller / display / etc is still powered on, then the battery is not shut off, so if it is trying to protect itself against a problem it is unable to do so (BMS has failed, typically caused by shorted-on FETs similar to what happens when a controller's motor phase FETs have failed).

In that event, if it is caused by a low enough voltage, the controller's LVC (if correctly programmed for the battery you have) would shutdown the controller and prevent it from responding to any input (but it should not make any sounds, either, so this is almost certainly not what is happening).

Blinking lights are a message you should be able to find info on in the controller manual. If you have no manual you can check on Luna's site for one, or here on ES or the internet in general for BBSHD manuals, since it is still a BBSHD controller, just modified by Luna. If you don't find one you could check directly with Luna and ask them what that blink code means.

If you don't want to or can't do the testing of the system required to find out what is wrong, or can't (or don't want to) do the repairs once the problem is found, you could take it to a repair center or ship it to one, perhaps Luna themselves if they do repair on their products. Otherwise, there is little to be done about making it work again.

Regarding the battery being enough for the system: if it worked before, and nothing has changed, it should still be enough. UPP makes a wide range of battery types and qualities. If it a lot older now than when it worked, or it's being used a lot harder now than when it worked, the battery could have aged or been stressed enough to have a problem. Otherwise, there's no way for us to know if the battery is enough for the system. You'd need to provide a link to the sales page for the specific battery you have, that has the complete battery specifications, or pictures of the labels if they have that info (they often don't). If the specifications are detailed enough, they may tell us if it can handle the current load that the system might put on it, though we can't know what load you're actually putting on it unless you have a wattmeter or current meter (ammeter) on the system that you can provide readings (volts and amps, plus watts if available) from when the moments when the system is working as well as when stops working. If it is not working at all other than turning on, then you can't get amp or watt readings, but you can still get volt readings.


In general, if it worked before, and doesn't work now, then making a list of the exact events and conditions that happened between the time it did work and the time it didn't may help you narrow down which part(s) might have failed, so you can then test those.

But I'd still recommend testing the controller FETs based on your original problem report.
 
So I bought a used bbshd a few nights ago. The seller said the only problem was that when he replaced the nylon gear he installed it incorrectly, so as far as he knew that was the only issue. The controller happened to be a ludicrous, he didn't know it was an aftermarket controller. So this controller is new to my battery. My battery has upp's 'grade A cells', not LG or Samsung. Bottom of the barrel 52 volts battery they offer. When I hooked it up to my battery the controller turned on, display works, speed sensor works, programming works, basically all worked except pas and throttle. I thought the controller was making a slight clicking sound but I was wrong, it's my battery making the clicking sounds when I engage the throttle. I got inside the programming and lowered the amps to 14, then 12 then 1amp. When I dropped it to 1 amp I got the motor to engage just a little, turning the chainring like a quarter inch...
 
https://unitpackpower.net/collections/usa/products/unitpackpower-s039-3-usa-stock?variant=42513389813929
 
SplatMatic69er said:
So I bought a used bbshd a few nights ago. The seller said the only problem was that when he replaced the nylon gear he installed it incorrectly,
If a gear is not correctly installed, the system may not operate, as it might not be able to turn correctly, and cause very high load on the motor and controller. (I don't know the specifics of the gear in question, so you'd have to check the BBSHD threads about them to get details).

Did the system ever operate for you? Not just turn on, but actually run and ride normally. (I ask questions like this because it is important to know what already worked and what didn't, in any troubleshooting. We only know what you tell us specifically, everything else we have to guess or assume, which doesn't help troubleshooting--only hard facts do that ;) ).

If not, then if the gear was never reinstalled correctly (presently we have to assume that is the case given no information saying that it was) you need to disassemble it to correcly install this gear (assuming it has not been damaged by the incorrect install, and that no ohter parts were damaged either). There are various threads about such repairs on BBSHD systems that should help you with this. Whether this will fix your posted problem depends on the actual cause of the problem you're having...but it's still something that needs to be fixed.



The controller happened to be a ludicrous, he didn't know it was an aftermarket controller. So this controller is new to my battery.
Did your battery work on a previous system, or is it at this point still untested (beyond the results posted in this thread)?

If it worked before, what was the previous system it worked on?


My battery has upp's 'grade A cells', not LG or Samsung. Bottom of the barrel 52 volts battery they offer.
Then it probably also has the cheapest BMS, which means it probably has no balancing function. That means that the unmatched cells used in it will probably get more unbalanced (unequal in voltage, with less and less charge in some cells vs others) over time. The harder it is used, and the farther it is discharged each time, the faster this generally occurs. It's a common problem in cheap battery packs. This doesn't affect the problem you have now, but it is something to keep an eye on for the future, especially if there is no balancing function built into the BMS.

I looked at the provided link, but unfortunately they don't give specifics of the battery you actually have there, just generic information that doesn't narrow down exact parts installed in your battery or how they work (like whether it has a balancing BMS or not, or how the system is wired (like relays or thermal cutouts, etc, that could cause clicks).

The only BMS info they have is
BMS safety protection system to prevent battery damage
Using intelligent BMS detection system, when the battery is high temperature and high pressure, it will automatically start the BMS protection system to cut off the power supply to prevent the battery from igniting. To provide you with security guarantee!
which has at least one mistranslation or incorrect statement in it: there is no pressure sensor on any of these BMSs to tell what cell pressure is--the sensor would really have to be inside each cell to correctly check this, anyway, and that is definitely not the case, so it can't tell if the battery is "high pressure". It *might* have a temperature sensor mounted in the middle of the cell pack somewhere that is wired to the BMS to tell if it is high temperature, though most BMS don't have this (especially the cheap ones). Some have one onboard the BMS but that can't tell what temperature the battery itself is, only the BMS component closest to the sensor.

They also claim
Authentic and reliable A-grade battery, long battery life, waterproof!
The unit pack power uses A-grade battery cells, and the battery life is much higher than other similar batteries! And with waterproof design, don't worry about your battery getting rained
but this is unlikely to be true; it might be water resistant but most of the cases like this I've encountered aren't glued or otherwise sealed shut, just screwed together with no seal between case halves, and most don't have seals at the switch, keylock, or charge / discharge connectors. Yours might be different, but another something to watch out for over time.


When I hooked it up to my battery the controller turned on, display works, speed sensor works, programming works, basically all worked except pas and throttle
If those don't work, then that means the motor does not operate at all, does not turn the chainring (since throttle and PAS are the ways to make that happen). Some systems have a Walk Mode you can engage with a button press or combination--does the system operate correctly using that? (you can check the BBSHD manual for how to engage this function if it exists).

I thought the controller was making a slight clicking sound but I was wrong, it's my battery making the clicking sounds when I engage the throttle.


There should be nothing inside the battery to make a click, with a couple of possible exceptions. A click is usually made by a relay, and other than high-powered expensive BMSs for large high-power batteries (also expensive) I am not aware of any BMSs that use relays. The other exception is an overtemperature sensor that rather than reporting actual temperatures to a BMS simply acts as a thermal switch beyond some unsafe high limit (often using ones designed around 70 degrees C). These will click very very softly once when disconnecting, then after the thing they are touching that got them so hot finally cools down enough, they'll do it again as they reconnect, but it is not immediate, and can take minutes to turn back on depending on the temperature increase and thermal mass of the thing that got hot.

In either case, the battery's BMS would shut off it's output when the click happens, turning all power to the rest of the system off, and you would see nothing on the display, no controller response, no lights, etc. If that isn't happening, either the BMS in the pack is broken or otherwise not working correctly, or the click you're hearing is not something in the BMS function or control.

Sometimes a spark on a broken connection or very bad solder joint (that didnt' actually make a connection) will sound like a click. There are a number of high-current connections inside the battery that could cause that if they're not made correctly, but it would require opening the battery to find them.


I got inside the programming and lowered the amps to 14, then 12 then 1amp. When I dropped it to 1 amp I got the motor to engage just a little, turning the chainring like a quarter inch...

Do you mean the BBSHD (controller) programming? (presumably via the display?)

Best guess with info posted so far then is that the battery is unable to supply current without extreme voltage drop. The voltage drop then causes either:

--controller LVC to engage, turning off controller response to control inputs, but leaving controller / display powered on.

--battery LVC to engage, turning off battery power entirely, and turning off controller / display completely.

Such voltage drop can come from a battery that is essentially completely discharged (empty) or that is so imbalanced that at least one group of cells is empty (or is defective or improperly connected and has such high internal resistance that any current flow thru it causes it's voltage to drop below cutoff point).

What does the battery voltage measure, using a voltmeter set to 200VDC, on the battery output terminals connected to the controller itself? First test with the system turned off, then with it on but not trying to use it, then when trying to use it. Note down each voltage here in the thread, and it may tell us enough about the battery condition to begin diagnosing it.
 
Answering one part of the questions real quick. My battery is paired with my bbs02b. Yes it operated successfully with my 02 over this past summer and fall.

Second answer to a following question. No I haven't successfully run this ludicrous controller before. Has not operated within my ownership.

Ive tested the ludicrous controller with the paired bbshd I bought and with my bbs02b I've had and results were identical.

And what I meant by programing is I connected my phone to the controller using the speeed app to alter amperage
 
--controller LVC to engage, turning off controller response to control inputs, but leaving controller / display powered on.

I think this is most likely
 
Additional photos showing how I had to repair the power cables as they were cut because the seller switched to a hub drive and cut the wires to wire up his new system.
 

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Some people have told me that this controller requires a high continuous amp battery, maybe 30 amps continuous isn't enough..even when it's turned down as I know for sure the clicking is my bms activating
 
If your BMS was "activating", you would lose all power to the bike.

If that is not happening, your BMS is not "activating".

A BMS can only either allow all power thru to the system, or cut off all power to the system. It can't limit anything in any other way.

If there is a clicking coming from your battery or BMS, there is something else going on you would need to investigate inside it.
 
I am losing all functionality but the display stays on. I have a spare bms I can install and see if I get some different results. It would make sense as in the past my 52 volt 13ah battery would cut out at 48 volts with lvc set to 43v on my bbs02b. It's not an old battery by any means, only 220 miles on it
 
SplatMatic69er said:
I am losing all functionality but the display stays on
then your BMS is not shutting off, because that would cut all power to anything running off the battery, including the display.
 
Mmm I've spent too much time and effort trying to troubleshoot shoot this controller. I'm contemplating salvaging the fets off of it and perhaps replacing the stock bafang fets with the ludi fets. Is that a viable idea? Is it worth it considering bafang uses 3077 fets? I don't have a baseline to compare them but Luna's site states they use 'military grade' fets.
 
amberwolf said:
SplatMatic69er said:
I am losing all functionality but the display stays on
then your BMS is not shutting off, because that would cut all power to anything running off the battery, including the display.

Thank you amberwolf for helping me troubleshoot this issue. I feel like I can trust you and that means a lot for a noob like myself. I just wanted to tell you that 😊
 
SplatMatic69er said:
Mmm I've spent too much time and effort trying to troubleshoot shoot this controller. I'm contemplating salvaging the fets off of it and perhaps replacing the stock bafang fets with the ludi fets. Is that a viable idea? Is it worth it considering bafang uses 3077 fets?

Since it hasn't yet been established what specifically is actually causing the problem you are seeing (at least, what's posted here in the thread doesn't), it seems a bit premature to destroy the controller and harvest parts.... ;)

Some thoughts you might pursue:

You haven't posted what the blink code you see on the controller is, or what you found that it means (presumably you have at least looked up the code...).

You also said you think it is likely that the controller LVC is kicking in, but you haven't posted anything about the testing done to determine this. You'd need to check the setup program to find out what the LVC is set to, *and* check with a multimeter (not just the display meter/etc) what the voltage at the controller's battery connection is, both before the problem happens, just sitting there powered on, and at the moment the problem happens. If the voltage never dips below the controller's LVC as set in the program, then the controller is not shutting off due to LVC.

You have already said that the sound comes from the battery when the problem happens, not from the controller.

This implies the controller is not causing the problem***, but that the battery is. If true, it would be a shame to destroy a possibly perfectly working controller.

So, before you do anything else, I would recommend finding out what in the battery is actually causing the noise. This requires carefully opening up the battery and documenting everything you find as you go, and at each step retest the problem in case it is something loose that changes behavior when moved, etc., and so you can listen for the sound at various points inside the battery to locate the specific part it is coming from.

***it's still possible the controller (or the motor) has a serious fault in it that is causing such a high current that something in the battery is overloaded, but that something is most likely itself a fault, rather than a protection (because all of the normal protection types in a battery cut all power like a switch).

I don't have a baseline to compare them but Luna's site states they use 'military grade' fets.
Luna says a lot of things. ;) If you ever de-pot the controller far enough to see the FET markings without damaging anything, you can verify exactly what they are by looking up their brand, model number, and specs based on those markings. There *are* military grade parts of many kinds available, and each has a separate part number or suffix from the commercial versions, so they are very easy to tell apart.
 
A part of the reason I think the controller is 'broken' is that I bought it with a used bbshd. The previous owner said "the mid drive is broken" in his listing of his khs500. He told me he replaced the nylon gear because it was torn up but installed it incorrectly. I'm guessing due to the poorly installed nylon gear, the motor when powered up was up against too much resistance and when throttling up it blew, that's my guess. The previous owner when asked said the controller was working and the nylon gear was the only problem. Well the controller did turn on and power up so I think it was a bit of a white lie to ensure I buy the motor.

I did search what the blinking light means but came up empty. I even contacted Luna and they said they didn't know, but they would have to know...It's almost like Luna trys to bury any information about their products, which would make sense considering their reputation among diy riders in the community. They're like Apple in many ways if you know what I mean.
 
I believe I will depot this ludi v1. Someone told me Luna hates the idea of reverse engineering their controllers. I'll post whatever information I come across while the de-potting.
 
SplatMatic69er said:
A part of the reason I think the controller is 'broken' is that I bought it with a used bbshd. The previous owner said "the mid drive is broken" in his listing of his khs500. He told me he replaced the nylon gear because it was torn up but installed it incorrectly. I'm guessing due to the poorly installed nylon gear, the motor when powered up was up against too much resistance and when throttling up it blew, that's my guess. The previous owner when asked said the controller was working and the nylon gear was the only problem. Well the controller did turn on and power up so I think it was a bit of a white lie to ensure I buy the motor.
While that is certainly possible...if the controller blew in the way described, the FETs would not be useful because they will be what blew. (possibly also taking out the gate drivers).

Also, since the gear has not yet been reinstalled correctly (at least, not by any of the info yet posted here), the system is still unlikely to work until that is done, and any mechanical or other damage done (if any) to other parts in the system by the incorrect installation has been corrected.



I did search what the blinking light means but came up empty. I even contacted Luna and they said they didn't know, but they would have to know...It's almost like Luna trys to bury any information about their products, which would make sense considering their reputation among diy riders in the community. They're like Apple in many ways if you know what I mean.

I would suggest looking up the BBSHD error codes rather than just info from Luna, because as I noted before, this is not a Luna product at it's core, it is an upgraded BBSHD controller, and there should be plenty of info about those here on ES and elsewhere. ;)

I haven't read any of the results, just skimmed them, but there are at least a few probable hits in this search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bbshd+blink+codes
and there are other searches that might find more info (such as looking for the specific blink code, and any error numbers that might come up on the display, or logged by the setup program, etc.).
 
It was just a blown ludi v1. I had never broken a controller so I didn't know first hand how a blown controller acted. Thank you for helping me diagnose the issue, much appreciation.
 
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