2WD Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 06, 2012 4:01 pm

recharge of lighting pack:
13.102Ah
208.6Wh
2.95Ap
44.3Wp
13.84Vm
16.49V end of charge
15.99V under the headlight lowbeam load.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by texaspyro » Feb 06, 2012 8:06 pm

amberwolf wrote: saying that I was a braver man than he, and he woudln't ride it on the track.
Phyzzieboy is a wise man... :twisted: He'll ride the atomic powered plasma spewing dick cycle, but won't go near the CrazyBike... sorta says something...
Last edited by texaspyro on Feb 08, 2012 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by mdd0127 » Feb 06, 2012 8:32 pm

Well, speaking from experience here, LFP built the dickcycle so he kind of knows it's quirks and what to expect. Same with me on mine. With both of my previous recumbent experiences, both being non electric, general confusion took over and I crashed them both within 50 feet. I'll jump a dirtbike at 60mph in the sand but can't imagine riding a chopper. It's all about what you're used to and having some idea what to expect. I am going to give Crazybike a try next time I'm down there for sure though. Who knows, I might just convert!
Turn it OFF!!!

Apocaloptimist! (thx Kiwi!)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Alan B » Feb 06, 2012 8:42 pm

I'm experimenting with a bikeE and getting used to a recumbent (pedal only so far). It is quite a different feeling, but it is comfortable and the view is great. I am looking forward to the motorization phase of this experiment. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by sangesf » Feb 06, 2012 8:48 pm

amberwolf wrote:The thing is, the main drain by far is an incandescent (halogen) car headlight. Perhaps those also draw more current as voltage drops? I suppose I should check that.

The only other things on the lighting pack are an automotive LED brake-light bar with a simple resistive voltage drop/current limiter and series LEDs, and the turn signal lamps which are "12VAC" LED MR16 units--I'm sure they have switching regulators in them, too, but they are not on enough to account for very much current draw (almost certainly not the amount I am seeing).

To be absolutely sure of the phenomenon I think I am seeing, I would have to do timed tests with each of those loads at the house, at various stages on the discharge curve, and see if it still takes mroe Ah for the same duration at lower voltages.
Btw... What exactly is the issue you're having with the "lighting" battery?

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 07, 2012 1:21 am

No real "issue" per-se, just that it seems like as the battery gets lower in voltage/SOC, the lighting uses more Ah for the same trip. Doesn't seem to make sense, but I am not certain that this is even happening, it may just be a mis-measurement.

I forgot to bring the watt meter with me to keep track of lighting pack usage on my commute today, so I am now recharging the pack again, so I can retest this whole thing from scratch.
texaspyro wrote:Phyzzieboy is a wise man... :twisted: He'll ride the atomic powered plasma spewing dick cycle, but won't go near the CrazyBike... sorta says something...
Yes, but I'm not totally sure *what*, yet. :P

He did have a point at that time, but I still wanna see him ride it in it's normal stable configuration.
mdd0127 wrote:Well, speaking from experience here, LFP built the dickcycle so he kind of knows it's quirks and what to expect. Same with me on mine. With both of my previous recumbent experiences, both being non electric, general confusion took over and I crashed them both within 50 feet. I'll jump a dirtbike at 60mph in the sand but can't imagine riding a chopper. It's all about what you're used to and having some idea what to expect. I am going to give Crazybike a try next time I'm down there for sure though. Who knows, I might just convert!
You might. :) But my guess is not. ;)

I am rather the opposite; I'd rather not even GO 60mph, much less in unstable terrain. :lol:

Alan B wrote:I'm experimenting with a bikeE and getting used to a recumbent (pedal only so far). It is quite a different feeling, but it is comfortable and the view is great. I am looking forward to the motorization phase of this experiment. :)
It certainly changes things, because that instability you get at low speed (especially when you wobble side to side as you try to start pedalling from a stop) will not exist, as you can use your feet on the ground to stay stable untl you get to speed if you like. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Alan B » Feb 07, 2012 9:18 pm

Yes, using the motor to get to "stable speed" is a major advantage of a powered recumbent.

I received my BMC gearmotor in a 20" wheel, so the motor mounting phase begins very soon...

Looking forward to it. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by sangesf » Feb 07, 2012 9:25 pm

Had a chance to check the lighting pack yet?
FWIW, I tested the amp draw of my blinker lights (no clue what the wattage is), but found it to be only .3a when constant on (no blinking) off of a 13.2v battery..
Now the amp draw from the (mechanical) blinker relay is another story...
Haven't had a chance to check that yet... But I doubt it's all that much... If it's really large, I'll let ya know, IF you're using the same type of relay for your blinkers, don't know if THOSE draw any concernable amount when current drops.. Although I DO know that when voltage gets below 11v they stop working.. (Tested that out with some SLAs)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 07, 2012 9:48 pm

No testing yet.

I have only a digital blinkers; I manually flick the switch on and off with my thumb. :) The old honda scooter blinker from the mid-80s died for the last time a while back, and I have yet to build myself an electronic one.

The old electromechanical relay itself was in series with the lights and signal switch, so it only drew power when they were activated. They were still incandescent bulbs at that time, before I switched to the LED MR16s that Texaspyro sent me (that happen to barely fit in the housings). The relay drew no separate current from anything, so there was only the current flowing thru the bulbs (1 rear and 1 front) also flowing thru the relay, whenever it was activated. It wasn't a thermal type, but an R/C + relay coil.

I never really drew up a schematic for it, but I *think* the blinker worked by the light passing current thru capacitor until it charged up and then that engaged the relay, which shorted out the cap via the resistor and discharged it until the relay dropped out, opening the circuit again. Then repeat the cycle as long as power was applied. But I am not even sure that would owrk, so I could be very wrong.

Either way, the turn signal draw right now is pretty insignificant, especially compared to the car headlight. Same with the LED brake light bar. Taillight is not powered by the 12V system, as it still uses a CFL powered by the traction pack and a laptop AC adapter booster in series with the pack.

Car headlight uses 2.something amps, almost 3A IIRC, unless I turn on the high beam, which takes almost 6A. I always run that light, day or night (as well as the taillight).





@Alan: i am pretty sure you'll really like it, especially if you already like the BikeE. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by sangesf » Feb 07, 2012 10:07 pm

In regards to the hi/lo lamp/bulb/housing.. Remind menwhat kind and how you have it attached?
P.S. My light switch has two "modes".. At this time my front halogen is on both, but if I can get a decent low/hi beam and it works well.... ;)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 07, 2012 10:21 pm

I just welded a little piece of square tubing to the bottom of the steel headlight adjustment housing, since I took the whole unit including plug and wiring off the old 85 Ford LTD before I was forced to get rid of it by the city.

Then i drilled a hole thru the tubing, horizontally, and bolted it to an old bike headlight mount that I'd clamped around the front steering stem.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 20#p462420

The switch is just a 4PDT center-off toggle that's mounted in a bit of metal plate and ziptied to the handlebars, with some plastic under it to keep it from shorting. It's wired with power to the center row (all contacts together so they share the load on all four), low to the top row and high beam to the bottom row, with a big fat stud diode from some old linear PSU wired from high (anode) to low (cathode) so it can't turn on the high beam when low is selected, but turning on high beam flows both thru the switch to high beam and thru the diode to low beam. The other end of the headlight harness just goes to ground at it's common terminal.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 11#p469111

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 09, 2012 2:52 am

Had to hauld two trailer loads full of dog food today; this is where having the big cargo bike would've been handy. First load was 183.5lbs, second was 168lbs. Weight-wise I think the trailer and CrazyBike2's pods could've hauled all of it in one load, but it wouldn't have physically fit without being stacked too high and causing stability problems. So I just did two loads and only used the trailer, leaving the pods empty.

Traffic was insane on the way there for the first load, and pretty bad on the way back home with it; I guess they're gearing up for some kind of circus at the south end of Metrocenter so the whole area is crazy with traffic. Just getting onto/across westbound Dunlap was a 15-minute wait, because of traffic coming from the freeway and what was already on Dunlap, with people waiting to get into Metrocenter and those gawking at whatever was happening up there, instead of going when the light changed each time. :roll:

But the bike with the unlaoded trailer rode really well. I lashed the trailer to the bike with a steel dog tie-out cable, too, in case it's tube clamp failed or worked loose, so I couldn't lose the trailer no matter what:
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I've found that as long as I don't load outside the original framework, the trailer is pretty stable even with over 200lbs on it.(sorry I can't get focus to be consistent; I'm not sure if it's me or the camera, but focus seems to be a crapshoot these days--I take 10 pics and 2 of them might be in focus).
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Someone walking by when I was stopped at one point said "that's quite a train you've got there", and he's right. :)
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Cuz really, long bike is LONG:
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Some pics with no ambient lighting except a streetlight a couple hundred feet away, just the bike's own lighting. First the same side view:
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Then the right side:
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Then from behind:
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It's pretty bright and easily visible, even with no lights on the trailer itself (just reflectors) becaue of th taillight lighting up the trailer. .


The trip used a little more Wh/mile than normal, but by much, just 33Wh/mile vs the typical 27-29Wh/mile I've been getting. But it was at a much slower speed, as I stayed down around 18MPH cruising with the empty trailer, and down below 15MPH, closer to 12MPH most of the time, for the loaded trailer. Only went faster when I needed to get across or thru traffic, as it still pulls to one side a little more than the other, so it tends to wobble a bit at faster speeds, worse with higher loads on it regardless of tire pressure. It's due to the off-center mounting, I guess.


Anyway:
55m 31s trip time
10.98miles
21.2mph max
11.8mph avg

33.9Wh/mile
6.859Ah / 6.988
377Wh
63.52Amax

58.3Vstart
53.2Vrest
50Vmin

1.8% Regen
0.1259Ah Regen
-7.25A peak Regen


Also, earlier, another coworker took a ride on the bike and most definitely had the EV grin. :) It only took him about 30 seconds to get the hang of balancing it and steering it, though he stayed pretty slow while steering which actually makes it harder on this bike.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 17, 2012 4:20 am

Longer than usual work commute next two days (probably about 24-25 miles round trip) so am adding a backup pack for this:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 12#p535912

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 17, 2012 5:33 pm

Finished up the pack:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 42#p536242
and mounted it with pallet straps:
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It is pretty secure; a little foam under the front edge to keep it from sliding and scraping while I was tightening the straps, with the straps running in the slots for the handle so they can't slide around, then out to the triangles on the bottom of the frame. I'd like to make them tighter, but I can't pull hard enough without causing the strap to slip. Takes one hand to hold the strap clip in place, and the other to pull.
DSC06106.JPG
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Only test so far is a wheelspin test, am eating lunch right now then will take it for a spin. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 18, 2012 10:02 pm

Ride went fine, but the RC LiPo has more voltage sag than the main pack. :( So it doesn't accelerate as hard from a stop as with the main one.

It's only half the capacity of the main pack, too, so maybe it would be better in 3P or 4P, so I will try that later once I get more packs repaired and tested.

Anyway, I only went around the block, so here's the numbers:

1m 49s trip time
0.438miles
20.9mph max
14.4mph avg

38.9Wh/mile
0.316Ah
17.693Wh
49.91Amax

58.1Vstart
57.5Vrest
54.3Vmin

4.0% Regen
0.0123Ah Regen
-A peak Regen

The CA odo also rolled over to exactly 2400 miles as I finished. :) I forget now what the total is, but I think that's well over 3500 miles now total on the frame, though many things have changed on the bike during that time.

I recharged it using the bulk charger used for the other pack, which is the same desired terminal voltage.

Then last night I went off to work, which including all the roundabout ways I had to get around freeways and non-thru roads was a bit more than 13 miles, and took a bit less than an hour. Most of it I was able to stay at 19-20MPH, but there were quite a few stops/starts, and a couple places I had to go down to around 15MPH or less because of road conditions I couldn't see from the google maps satellite pics I used to review the route with beforehand. Some of those areas are in terrible shape, where even the patches over the potholes had partly or mostly disintegrated.

Thankfully there was almost no traffic at any point, so I didnt have to ride in the sometimes-unnavigable righthand edge of the road, and was able to mostly just take the lane. Other than the road conditions, it was pretty uneventful.

I changed my mind about battery use, and decided to use the ammo-can RC LiPo pack as far as it would take me, down to what should be 80% or so max discharge. At the ~1C rate I was typically using (~450W cruising, voltage sag down to anywhere from 56V at teh start to 50V at the end, during cruise; worse when accelerating), that would be about 49V or so, for 3.5V/cell, if I figured things right.

It ended up only taking about 69% of capacity to get there, though. So at a guess I could get ~15 miles range out of this pack, maybe a bit more, down to 80%, for a pack steady-state LVC of 49V. Due to voltage sag, the actual LVC can't be at that point, because it dropped to 48.8V even at the 69% SOC, during startup conditions. At a guess it'd have to be 44-45V actual pack LVC, or 3.2V-ish cell-level LVC.

I had some other thoughts, but was interrupted by doggies, and now I don't remember what they were. :(

So now trip data, outbound, using the 14s2p RC LiPo pack:
49m 50s trip time
13.33miles
23.5mph max
16.0mph avg

27.4Wh/mile
6.931Ah / 7.0444Ah
372.56Wh
62.42Amax

58.1Vstart
52.2Vrest
48.8Vmin

2.1% Regen
0.1508Ah Regen
-9.61A peak Regen



Homebound trip, using the main pack. Trip took longer because I missed a couple of turns that looked a lot different at dawn than they had at night, and had to go around some things, and backtrack a bit once. Was still pretty empty on the roads, though the road conditions were a bit better southbound than they had been northbound, and I could see better to avoid damaged parts of the roads, too, so I was able to maintain better speed.

55m 27s trip time
15.33miles
24.1mph max
16.5mph avg

24.1Wh/mile
6.796Ah / 6.9205Ah
374.47Wh
65.24Amax

58.3Vstart
53.3Vrest
49.6Vmin

1.8% Regen
0.1228Ah Regen
-9.696A peak Regen


Interestingly, even though I accelerated harder with stiffer voltage during accel, took longer, rode further and faster, I used less Ah and only a tiny bit more Wh (because the voltage didn't sag as much).

It might be the number of stops/starts, but they seemed similar. Didn't count them, though, so I don't know. Might be wind or slope, but I didn't notice much in the way of wind either way, besides that caused by riding.


EDTI: OH, now I remembered what I was thinking of earlier. The taillight wasn't working when I got home, but it had been when I left work. So somewhere in the 15 miles it stopped, but I dunno when. What I found after tracing the wiring was that the cord from the laptop adapter that's used to boost the pack voltage by 19V was cut thru, probably by the chain, as the zip tie had disintegrated that held the cord in a bundle to the frame. :(

It had very obviously shorted during the cut-thru, as both ends were blackened and melted, and I figured the adapter was toast...but after splicing and powering on, it still works just fine. :shock: I guess whoever made the crappy Averatec laptops didn't also make their AC adapters! :lol:

So taillight was at least an easy fix. At least the failure happened in daylight, rather than at night, but at night I would have at least noticed it (as it is bright enough to light up stuff beside and to the rear of the bike for some distance; easy to tell if it's on or not just looking in the mirrors).

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 20, 2012 2:12 am

I didn't bike to work for yesterday's trip; I was exhausted and a friend offered a ride, so I took him up on it. Glad I did because I don't htink I would have made it all teh way home wihtout either stopping for at least one nap, or probably dozing off while riding.

Which would be bad. :(

Also--I got paid mileage for riding the bike in; only ten bucks but it's essentially like getting paid half-time just for riding. :)


As it was, I still was so tired after finishing up the overnight shift on the remodel this morning, that I fixed food and then fell asleep holding it without ever geting to eat any. In the few hours I was home, I only got a couple hours of sleep (in short naps) before having to go back in to work at my regular store this afternoon; the food just went into the fridge because I was too tired to think of bringing it with me to eat before starting work (or after). I felt lke I was in a daze, but on the ride to work (a normal short commute thankfully) managed to not do anythign dumb or get run over. If there had been more traffic I might've had problems keeping track of it, but it wasn't bad; a little less than usual, actually.

I got home and fed the dogs and let them out, sat down and started to check ES, realized I was really hungry, and promptly dozed off. :roll: Woke up again a couple of times and repeated the cycle; this tiem I actually got the food started reheating (while I type this up and replied to another few posts beforehand), and am hoping to actually get to eat some of it before I doze off again. :lol: All the dogs are really really bored with me; I am just too wiped out to go out and play with them though. At least they have each other to play with. :)

On a good note, I apparently impressed the people in charge of the remodel enough that they asked me to help with another remodel coming up next month, on the east side of the valley. It would be good because it would net me almost twice the hours that my usual shifts would (since these days I'm back to 25-ish hours a week), and I definitely need the money.

It's about the same distance as the one I just did, though there are fewer possible routes because North Mountain is in the way; one route goes up Cave Creek Road, which goes up between two of the mountains (big hills, really), and that's a lot of elevation change over a fair distance. Problem results not from the elevation change itself, but from the length of time I'd be going uphill. I think I would wind up heating the motor a lot, and definitely using a lot of battery. If for any reason I could not recharge at the destination (charger failure, etc). I would probably not be able to make it home without way more pedalling than I would be capable of, especially after the amount and kind of work I did at this other remodel.

I'd be able to coast down the hill on the way home, probably, with little or no motor or pedalling, so that would help. I don't think I could regen down it and still keep sufficient speed, though, so I would still have only whatever the remaining charge was in the packs after the trip out there.

There are another couple of routes, but neither is all that safe using the main roads--Greenway and Bell. Both are 45MPH+ roads, and people actually drive more like freeway speeds on them thru the stretches I need to be on. Greenway is a little better in that there is a wide sidewalk/bikepath I could ride on, but not at 20MPH, so I would be riding for a lot longer time. Not normaly an issue, but on my way *to* work I like to get there early just in case of problems, so have to head out early, and also have to still leave extra time, so a 1.5 hour allotment for travel time (expected to be actually half that) would double to heading out 3 hours before Ihave to be there, and possibly just sitting around able to do basically nothing useful for quite a long time once I get there, if I'm really really early (potentially 1.5 hours early if everything goes right).

I can also take half-mile streets and side streets for the unsafe stretches, but speed can be forced down due to road condtions there, and detours are common, with either streets that don't go thru at all or that go way around "enclosed neighborhoods" that only have one way in or out.

Anyway, I have to trace out some routes with satellite imagery to see what's really up (since the maps like google maps arent' always accurate for non-main roads), and find out if there actually are usable easy routes. I also don't know if I will be approved for doing the remodel instead of my regular work shifts (it's either-or; can't do both), so this whole pondering session may prove totally useless.


Hmpf. If AZ didn't limit ebikes to 20MPH, I wouldn't have any problems--I'd just ride fast enough to keep up with traffic in the places I had to...and have a bigger battery. :lol:

And now I am off to re-reheat my food, becuase I just realized how long I have taken typing this up and rambling. :roll:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Alan B » Feb 20, 2012 8:02 am

Driving tired is pretty much equivalent to driving drunk. Be careful. It is not worth it if it results in an accident.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 21, 2012 12:52 am

Yeah, that's the biggest reason why I got the ride from the friend instead of riding myself, that second day. :(

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 23, 2012 2:26 am

Today I decided to try fitting a couple of "spare" controllers, neither of which I've actually used yet. Turns out both have some issues, though I expected that with the second one.
DSC06124.JPG
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No problems each time I went back to the repaired 12FET generic "ecrazyman", so the motor, connectors, and wires are all ok.

The first is a Methods' 100V 100A 18FET "infineon", one of the (I think) XC846-chip types, from before they were programmable, IIRC. (it has the header but software available to us doesn't talk to this one, AFAIK. Haven't actually tried yet). It has a switch on it for low or high voltage use (it is where I borrowed the idea for the one on my Lyen 6FET that is on DGA).
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I'd repaired this quite some time ago, to use for the 2010 Undead Race, but I had problems after playing around with it on the Fusin and DayGlo Avenger, trying to find the Fusin's phase/hall color combo for it. I had blown another FET or more (cant' remember now), and then fixed it in time for the UR. Didn't end up using it as instead I think I used the 12FET generic one I'd replaced the melted shunt and blown caps on from Ianmcnally, but I had worked out the hall/phase combo for the 9C for it...which did not work when I hooked it up; all I got was grindiness, even off-ground. :(

So, I played with variations and tried the simpler method of finding the right combo, but that method didn't work. I drew up a full 36-spot grid for all possible combos,
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and went thru them, and found several rough-running forwards and reverses, and a couple of almost-normal ones for each direction. But even those were MUCH noisier than normal, even once at speed. Off-ground they would at least spin, and drew only about 1.6A once at speed, even at full speed (~40MPH off-ground). But it wouldn't even start the wheel moving when on-ground even without me on the bike. :( Just grindiness.

So something is still wrong with the controller. Dunno what yet; will have to start scoping it out to see what the waveforms look like, and see if they tell me which FETs are still bad or whatever.

Also, I found some oddities:
--Regen braking does not work in forward motion. I shorted BK to GND with a jumper, and verified it's connection with a meter when it didn't appear to work. Brake signal input does stop the controller, but it does not actively brake the wheel (whcih does work on the 12FET EC). There is no throttle regen, either.
--Regen DOES work in reverse. I added a switch to let me enable reverse (so I can back the bike up, finally!) from X3 to GND (note there is no DX3, just X3). During testing of braking, it actively braked the wheel when X3 was grounded.
--neither X1 nor X2 do anything noticeable in off-ground testing. Most likely the controller is not programmed for anything to be different in throttle control with them.

I did go ahead and put the 3-speed switch on the bike...on the little nub of tube I have in front of the steering pivot. Right now it is wired with X3 reverse as top position, and middle as "default" speed, and bottom as X2. The actual switch is the one that came with the first Fusin kit from Dogman; I broke the throttle assembly off of it a long time ago, but the switch is still good. :) If I can't use it with this controller, I can hook it up to the 12FET EC or something instead.
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Unfortunately unless I can enable forward regen, I will not be able to use this controller on this bike, because I MUST have regen braking to help me slow down--the front rim brakes are completley insufficient to do it (and even with regen it is still insufficient sometimes--it takes far too long to stop).

But at least I have learned by accident that X3 is the same as DX3, and should enable reverse on the 12FET EC, too (it also doesn't have a DX3 pad).



Next I tried a Crystalyte "48V" unit 12FET or 15FET (is as big as an 18, but PCB doesn't run full length)
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from Karma, which already had a known issue that it required starting the wheel moving forward before it would begin running. I have not finished troubleshooting, but so far only tested one combo--the very first combo I tried worked audibly better than any of the combos for the 18FET, but not as well as the 12FET EC.
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On-ground testing started to move but ground to a stop instantly. This might be a false positive or it might be that I will need to take it out on the road to test it, throttling up and pedalling hard at the same time. If I have to pedal hard with no assist to startup, I can't use this controller on this bike--my knees won't take that for long.

Regen either does not work or is not enabled on this controller, or perhaps it does not have that function avaialble. Haven't explored it yet. Brakes just turn off the motor power.

The end cap has two switches on it, neither of which were wired to anything (there are nubs cut off on one switch, and various nubs on pads inside, probably from a CA-DP connector that isn't on there anymore). The second switch with no nubs might have once been soldered to the red wire that is spliced together in a loop now, which appears to be this controller's equivalent of the "ignition" wire.
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I'll play with this more later; I had to stop to feed the dogs and myself. :)

I did find this LED spotlamp that Texaspyro sent to be very useful while doing the wiring combos. I just put it into a clip-on desk lamp, and clipped that to the bike frame to point it at the controller area:
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Attachments
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 28, 2012 1:00 am

Haven't been able to get back to the controller stuff yet.

Today was VERY windy and gusty both on the way to work and coming home. I don't know what official reports are, but coming home around two hours ago was bad enough that it took up to 720W to maintain 12MPH, at times! It was close to 1300W to maintain 20MPH and I was wondering if I'd overheat the motor. It is ventilated, and I stopped to check--while pretty warm on the windings it was not hot, so I guess the wind blowing around was helping cool it.

A few times I could not even maintain 20MPH and the best I could do was 18-ish, at nearly 2KW and so I had to slow down to mitigate risk of overheating motor or controller. Only lasted at most 10-20 seconds each time but it felt like forever.

There were severe enough crosswinds to blow me into the sidewalk's curb at one point, scraping the rightside cargo pod, and another time to blow me into the lane to the left of me by over a foot before I could wrestle it back to the middle of the right lane. No traffic this time of night, so no problem, but if it had been that bad when I was on my way to work at midday, I might well have stopped for a while to see if it got better! :shock:

Occasionally the wind would push from behind, and I'd suddenly feel and hear the motor not pulling any current, yet still feel myself accelerating.

Pretty sure that instantaneous readings were correct, as when it was not gusting or I was in wind-shadow of buildings/trees/etc., readings were much more normal.

I think something must've gotten corrupt in the CA readings this trip, though, so I don't take all the data seriously--some of it is obviously wrong. Shows over 100A peak (never ever been over 60-ish before), and even regen A peak was extremely high.

At first I thought I must've forgotten to reset it after charging (since I do that htru the CA in reverse) but then it would show at least doulbe the miles (from yesterday's commute), and at least a couple of Ah of regen, from recharging. It doesnt' show either, and the uber-high MPH average reading is totally bizarre, so it's some other wierdness. I'll be resetting again after charging is done tonight (probably is now, actually) and then we'll see if the problem persists tomorrow, or if it's a one-off glitch.


25m 32s trip time
4.891miles
20.3mph max
47.8mph avg :?:

49.1Wh/mile :?:
2.87Ah
497.1Wh :?:
103.5Amax :?:

58.3Vstart
56.3Vrest
49.2Vmin

18.3% Regen :?:
0.0051Ah Regen
-37.2A peak Regen :?:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Feb 29, 2012 2:41 pm

CA data perfectly normal for yesterday's trip, so either the power cycle or the reset fixed it. :? Working, anyway.

But on the ride home the rear wheel snapped a spoke, which I had to replace today. Again it's on the drive side, in the same line and series of them that broke before. Replaced easily enough, but annoying, wasting half an hour today. Plus, this rim is getting pretty untruable, and I'll have to swap it out for a different one soon. :(

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 05, 2012 4:15 am

A few days ago (friday?) it was all windy again, on teh way to work, but not so much on the way back. It was more than 60Wh/mile just to get to work, no pedalling. Took what felt like forever to get started from each stop, and watts-at-speed were as bad or worse than when the CA wasn't reading right, but this time all was normal with it; just that it took more than twice the power to reach work vs normal. The way home was pretty close to normal.

I'd written down all the numbers but got distracted before posting them, apparently, and can't find the sheet now. :roll: All I remember for sure was >60Wh/mile for the 2.2 mile trip to work, and the 68A peak current, and seeing lots of very high wattages during accelleration *and* cruise. I checked the motor temperature by hand and it was kinda warm, but not even hot-tea kinda hot, on the windings and what metal I could reach thru the large vent holes. The magnet ring, however, was notably warmer than the rest.


Also, on the way home, the lighting pack ran out, and I had to switch to the secondary one. It cut out rather suddenly, so I guess it has a BMS of some type inside it, at least for LVC. When I got home I switched back to the Ultralife pack and watched it with a wattmeter, and it went down from 11V to about 9V very rapidly (seconds) and then just shut off. So whatever cutoff it has is at that point.


The rear wheel is having more problems, though no spokes are broken, it is bent up sideways beyond the ability to retension spokes to fix. I'll have to unlace it and try rebending it flat, then relacing it. But since that is such a huge PITA and time-waster, I first have to fix up a different wheel to replace this one and use for my commuting. I figure with the little functional waking spare time I have right now it's probably going to take days to work up a wheel.


But the worst part:

The front rim, for the motor wheel, is bent too, sideways, and has been growing worse. I've already tensioned it up as much as I possibly can on several spokes, and loosening the other side doesn't help as the spokes will just rattle around. It's basically got to be unbent just like the rear rim...but I don't ahve the option of a "spare wheel" for it, as I don't have spokes to build the rotor/magnet ring off the other (9C/GM) into any of the rims I've got, at least not with any easy lacings.

I am probably going to have to try some lacings with it in various rims and see what I can do.

It wouldn't matter about it being bent, but it makes me have to keep the rim brakes looser than they should be, so I don't wear the pads out just from riding down the road, so I can't brake hard enough to stop quickly even with regen braking. If I adjust the pads for proper braking, they are worn enough from just the ride after a commute to no longer properly brake. That's a lot of wear. :( It's also enough to add a couple of Wh/mile to my power usage.


Same problem I had with the original Fusin on DayGlo Avenger, after bending it's rim in a skid, though CB2's problem is not nearly as bad.


If the rear rim was any better off, I would just finish what I meant to do originally and weld on brake studs for the rear wheel. But it would also just wear the pads quickly if adjusted properly. It might still help even if left adjusted loosely, so I'll probably install them.

A disc brake would be better, but I have to build a hub that has freewheel threads on one side and disc brake mounts on the other...but I only have front aluminum ones with the brake mounts, and I don't think I can succesfully reliably meld one with a threaded freewheel type. I do have a pair of steel hubs that are identical and can be mated with freewheel threads on each side, and use a thread-on disc (I have two cheap ones).

That would at least give me "reliable" rear brakes. Since I have none at all right now, that would add that much more braking power to the bike. I might be able to do both disc and rim in the rear, so we'll see what happens, when I have time to actually try doing this.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 06, 2012 9:32 pm

Wrenches as torque arms *can* work, but even at only 2KW max sustained, cruise 400-700W, and 300-400W regen peak, they are not a perfect solution:
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That was a nice older made-in-USA wrench, too. :( Not like the cheap Chinese one I bent open on DayGlo Avenger previously, and was able to sledgehammer back into clamping. This one was nice and hard and just broke instead of bending.

I don't know when it broke, but I suspect the last few days, possibly even yesterday. Starting sometime the night before, I began to hurt all over so bad that on the way to work I didn't even bother trying to help startups by pedalling. Then while at work I could feel myself coming down with a cold ro something, and by the time I was on the way home I was so sick I didn't even try to pedal or go very fast; I think my peak speed was about 15MPH. I didnt' trust my driving so I kept it slow and out of any traffic. Today I laid in bed most of the day and am now mostly over the cold I think.

So if it was already ready to go, then the strain of the power against the winds last week plus yesterday's no-pedal startups probably caused it to fail. I usually check it each ride but have not done so last couple of weeks (see what happens when you forget to check? :lol: :oops:)

I don't know which side failed first. Could've been the hose clamp on the short torque arm, which then let it wiggle and twist on that end, which could've put more stress on the wrench and broke it.


Anyway, I decided that while I was having to fix the bike anyway, I'd just setup DGA to ride to work for now, with the ammo-can RC LiPo pack running the Lyen 6FET and Fusin front hub, and get several things fixed on CB2 while it's down. I was hoping I could do most of it today, but I was too sick until a couple of hours ago, and even now am still having troulbe focusing on things, and a little dizzy, and sneezing/coughing. So I did not get a lot done.


I took the whole front fork off, wheel and all, and decided to shorten up the add-on 1-1/8" headtube that had previous caused the geometry issue leading to death-wobble and my crash and broken leg/ankle at Death Race 2011, and then install the same nicer fork that I'd used for that race. But I must've mixed up the bearings and races for that fork with another one, because the ones I have are loose and allow the whole fork to wobble around--they don't fit right in the headset either. I found some that are too big, and many that are too small, but cannot find the ones that are the right size. Also can't find any other headsets that are any differnet and will still fit in this headtube. Again--some are too big, most are too small (1").


I did some experimentation with various frames' headtubes and forks, and found that the Trek that's the front part of my new bike must be larger than 1-1/8", because it fits that double-crown Hill Assault fork just fine where the one on CB2 will not. Unfortunate since I need it on CB2, not the new bike.


I also thought I might take some of the various spokes I have, including some Ianmcnally had sent me along with a rim, and see if I could lace up that other GM/9C into a wheel. But I cannot find my red box with the spokes in it. Must be buried under something (possibly behind the several hundred pounds of dog food that's taking up a lot of the bike parts room). So no wheel building today, either. I'm just not up to moving that much stuff to find the spokes.


i am thinking that in the next few days I might, just for now, weld up a swingarm for a regular bicycle wheel (rather than the one for the MC wheel using NV as jackshaft), and use a front hub on the new bike, just to get it going as a spare bike, while I continue to collect the parts to build the MC wheel the way I need to. I haven't yet got a seat made for the bike, or the cargo frame. STill have to decide if I am going to permanently mount the seat or make it removable/adjustable. But that's all for the new bike, so I'll psot about that in it's thread when i have more info.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 11, 2012 10:29 pm

Been too many things going on to get much done on CB2, and nothing on the new bike. Had to fix the fence at the driveway gate--apparently if whoever built the fence bothered with concrete to hold the posts in, they didn't do it very close to the surface. So it rusted thru a few inches down, and when I opened the gate on Friday when doing yard work to get the mower and stuff thrru, the gate almost fell off the fence. All that was holding it up was the chainlink wired between the hingepost and the vertical post next to it.
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I started to dig it out to fix it, but for unknown reasons, when i went back inside to get some tools, Fred and Nana started a fight with each other (no idea who started it, it was just before I got to the porch to open the door). I didn't get hurt very much getting them apart, and all they had was scratches, but teh bruising on my right hand was enough to not only stop me from digging the post out, but also to do much work on the bikes. :roll:

For now I just hammered in some conduit into the ground either side of it and wired it to that, but I need to finish digging it out of the ground and weld a new piece across the rusted-out section. Then wrap it all up in plastic and re-bury it.



Today my hand isn't aching much so I started at least working on the wheel-lacing. In this case I decided to lace the GM/9C into a 24" rim. It's meant for CB2 but I can also use it for the new bike until I get a chain drive going, if I have to.

I am nowhere near finished with the lacing, but it is started. I don't have spokes anywhere near the right length to lace it up, but I borrowed Karma's idea:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 35#p301135
which has worked for years for him, on a bike of similar weight to DayGlo Avenger. I took spokes off an old ten speed bike's wheel, since i have a number of those that I will almost certainly never use as complete wheels. Then I marked the spokes before I started bending and lacing them, but I won't be sure that I did it right until I am actually done. I figure on having to do it twice before I get it good enough. :lol:

The biggest problem I have is that the only suitable rim I have is pretty out-of-true: it's the one I had used on CB2 for the DeathRace 2011, that got bend up from sideloading/bouncing in the trailer on the way there. But it is the only one I have that can be even reasonably trued well enough to work properly with rim brakes, and rim brakes are still all I have for CB2.

I have about another 22 hours before I have to get ready to leave for my long commute, the first of 2 weeks' worth. I doubt I will be taking CB2 for it at least the first day or two, maybe more. DGA will have to do the job instead.

I'll have a 3-day weekend Fri Sat Sun to maybe get it ready for the commute the second week, if I don't get it before then.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 18, 2012 6:21 am

I rode DayGlo Avenger for the past few days, Mon-Thu. On Fri morning, on my way home from work, the Fusin geared hubmotor failed, when the clutch cracked, leaving it unable to transfer motor power to the wheel. I got that fixed well enough to get home, but DGA needed a new clutch. Since it turned out to be impossible with my tools of the moment to remove the clutch from the existing motor, or a spare clutch from a dead motor, I decided to fix up CrazyBike2. If I failed at that, I coudl always move it's 9C hubmotor wheel over to DGA in place of the Fusin, and that wouldnt' take very long.


So far it has been a success, though rather than a repair it turned into a major remodel of the bike. I have not road tested it yet as it is pouring rain outside just now, about 4am on Sunday. If it stops for a moment I'll take it out and we'll see how it performs.

As a summary:
--I moved the 26" motor wheel to the rear.
--Added a freewheel thread to it off an old rear hub.
--Installed a single-speed freewheel to that.
--replaced the front crappy fork with a slightly better Suntour identical to the one I used at DeathRace2011, but this one is from Mdd0127.
--Welded a disc brake mount on that fork.
--used the 24" disc brake wheel from the old Mongoose originally bought from Goodwill for that specific purpose.
--replaced the 160mm disc with a 180.
--installed a YUS caliper for the disc.
--lengthened the steering tie rod and affixed it to the clamp-on "stem" on the new fork.
--bolted the headlight to the front of that stem in place of handlebars.
--moved the controller from the front triangle to just in front of the seat under the center toptube.

There may end up more changes by the time I'm done. I should have pics up in a little bit; been trying to take them as I did the work so there are mroe than a few.

I want to also cut off the rim brake studs and reinforcing U-bar from the fork and move them down to the 24" wheel position, but that depends on handling with the disc brakes. Having both woudl be ideal. But it might not be necessary: I also have an identical wheel to this 24" in a 26", from Mdd0127. WIth that I can use disc and rim brakes at the same time on this fork.

Right now I only have regen braking for the rear, but now at least I *have* rear brakes. I want to weld on studs for rim brakes, but probably wont' have time to do it for now. I would have had time for this and more, but I was so exhausted when I got home Friday morning (almost midday, actually) that I slept almost all day and night, only getting up to eat something and feed the dogs, and I think I may have browsed the forum and/or posted here and there (can't remember) and then slept more until almost all the way thru Saturday, too, wiht a little forum browsing that I do remember vaguely.

But while sleeping I dreamed the solutions to the bike problems, and woke up actually still remembering them in detail, which is unusual these days.

More later after "dinner". :)

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