Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby mdd0127 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:04 pm

I think it would be a good idea to look into some maxxis downhill tubes. I might have given you one at some point.....can't remember. They're extremely thick and even though I ride through fields of goatheads and cacti, I haven't had a flat with one yet. I slime them anyway though. I'll dig through my stuff again to see if I have any more spares.

I'm making good progress on getting the new solar setup installed on my little rv so I might be able to come down soon. Maybe in a week or two. Everything's taking longer that I expect it too but it's moving along at least. Wilbur chewed that cyst off of the back of his leg so now he's got a big gaping hole in it. I took him to the vet and the vet said the stitches would just rip out and sent him home with antibiotics. Hopefully it heals up soon. I'll email you that asr manual tonight. Been so busy I forgot about it!
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:59 am

ddk wrote:Captain Obvious Here:

I'm gonna have to ask the o-o-o-OBVIOUS question

-are the valves tightly screwed into the valve bodies? :)

That's a very good thought, but yeah, that's the second thing I checked. :lol:

I slept fitfully but tiredly enough that I didn't end up getting up until a couple hours before I had to leave for work today, so I simply pulled both tubes out, and put in a much thinner one I'd patched before and has been sitting since the day I setup the Twinnertube 1.0 system.

I did not put in a second one, as it takes some time to work them both into the tire evenly. I didn't have that kind of time before work, especially if for some reason the first tube I tried didn't work, but thankfully it did. It has held 55PSI form the time I installed it until I just checked a few minutes ago, so a little more than 13 hours now, including my ~5-mile commute today.

I did put a spare tube in the toolbox on the bike, but it is one that had the valve stem leak, and I patched it, but have no idea if it will hold.


I examined the tubes briefly when taking them out, and found a pinky-sized hole in one (the one using the secondary valve hole). That hole is almost lined up 180 from the valve stem, and is on the inside circumference of the tube, so my theory is a "pinch flat" on the primary valve hole with the valve stem of the other tube. I do not think that there is enough room for it to expand into the hole normally, but if the other tube went flat first, it could've allowed the still-full tube to expand very slightly into that hole's edge, and then when I tried to air up the flat one on the primary valve hole, it might've pinched the other one, and then later could've cut thru the tube despite the tape/etc I had around the hole.

What is interesting is that I was able to inflate this tube several times after that point, and it held air for a while, even though I'd've expected the Slime to be unable to reach that part of the tube. But I think because the tubes are side by side, the more-inflated one squishes the less-inflated one so narrow that it lets slime ride up the walls and into leaks even on the inside circumference, allowing it to plug holes up there. I see no way it could've plugged a hole this big if it hadn't been being pinched closed by the valve stem of the other tube, though, so that's another part of why I have the theory above about how it was caused.


I didn't see a hole in the other tube, using the primary valve hole, but I haven't tried to air it up outside of the tire yet. Hopefully I'll have time to investigate the tubes in the next few days.



mdd0127 wrote:I think it would be a good idea to look into some maxxis downhill tubes. I might have given you one at some point.....can't remember. They're extremely thick and even though I ride through fields of goatheads and cacti, I haven't had a flat with one yet. I slime them anyway though. I'll dig through my stuff again to see if I have any more spares.

I don't think I got any tubes from you, but the tire I'm using probably did come from you, as well as the one I'd like to use but has knobbies that make it too wide for my frame. :lol: I don't rmemeber any tubes in any of the tires. (except for the two mongoose basher wheels, but IIRC those were normal tubes, possibly even originals).


The thickness of the tube itself I'm not so worried about, but more the quality of the bond between the brass valve stem core-holder, and the rubber of the valve stem part of the tire. That is where I am getting too many failures, unrelated to the rim's hole (not caused by wearing or cutting, it's just a rupture from within the tube, or in some cases complete separation of rubber from brass!).

Mold-line separation is the other place I have had repeated problems, where the tube casing simply splits right along one of the molding lines, usually on the inner circumference where they tend to be thinner.

I generally don't get "normal" flats, as the tire liners and such tend to keep the gnarly road debris stuff out of the tubes, but I sure do get some doozies from all the abnormal sources. :roll:

I was looking around and saw that even Michelin offers some DH tubes; and that DH tubes in general don't seem much more expensive than crappy standard or even walmart tubes would be (8-20 bucks, vs. 4-15 bucks), at least online. Might be different at an LBS, so I will have to call around and see. If DH tubes have better valve stem bonds, and are rated for at least 70-100PSI or more, then I am willing to go out and buy at least one to test with.

Any recommendations for good DH brands regarding valve stems specifically would be helpful. I doubt MadRhino follows this thread, but if he does, I'd like to hear his opinion, too. :)


I'm making good progress on getting the new solar setup installed on my little rv so I might be able to come down soon. Maybe in a week or two. Everything's taking longer that I expect it too but it's moving along at least. Wilbur chewed that cyst off of the back of his leg so now he's got a big gaping hole in it. I took him to the vet and the vet said the stitches would just rip out and sent him home with antibiotics. Hopefully it heals up soon. I'll email you that asr manual tonight. Been so busy I forgot about it!

Poor Wilbur...Bonnie used to do the same kind of thing when she had owies, as did another dog I had a couple of decades or more ago, who got them alot because he was so alllergic to various things that he chewed holes in himself a lot. I'd usually just smear people-antibiotic cream on the owie, then wrap a bandage around it. Then I'd soak another bandage in water and cayenne pepper, and wrap that around the first one after it dried. He pretty much didn't pick at those. ;) Another dog I'd had long before that didn't care what I put on them, she'd eat any bandage I put on her. :roll: At one point when she really hurt her leg, I had to make a little metal "cast" for it that I bolted togehter around the leg to keep her from licking it till it wore thru to some major blood vessel. :roll: She was kind of a neurotic dumb dog, that was pretty smart in some ways.


No hurry on anything; life is always a mixed bag of fast and slow and hurry-up-and-wait. :)

The ASR88 is still sitting on the table awaiting time enough to poke at it's guts again, to see if I can hand-wire across all the corroded traces and thru-holes, once I figure out where they go. Hopefully that will bring it back to life, instead of having to buy a new or repaired board.


Also, I forgot to get your static mat/strap and your Meanwell back to you when you were here last. :oops: Remind me about those when you are here next!
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby Alan B » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:23 pm

Are the tubes with fully threaded metal stems better?
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:08 pm

I don't know; the schrader ones I have had always look like the pics in recent posts, with a rubber tube from within the tube's shell up to the threaded part of the stem, and a brass hollow core inside that rubber tube, with internal threads for the valve core.

I *have* had a couple of Presta tubes, with fully-metal stems, bought because there weren't any schrader ones in the size I needed, and I was out and about with no other way home, thanks to yet another blown valve stem, back when I was riding DayGlo Avenger as just a pedal bike, before I started motorizing things. I don't recall a valve or stem problem with those, so maybe that would make a difference.

Are there specific brands that use all-metal stems?

If so, how do they setup the interface between the stem and the tube casing? That interface is what fails in each of the cases I have had so far.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby Alan B » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:14 pm

The schrader stems I have that are fully metal are Schwalbe. They have a nut to hold the stem in place which makes airing them up easier.

Looks like my moped tubes are metal also, those are kenda. Looks like a particular style.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:28 pm

I guess I'll have to look around. I wonder if there are any moped tubes that will stretch to fit a 26" bike rim, within a 2.1" bike tire?


Testing of the over-discharged lighting pack is now started, as it had finally charged fully to 4.1V/cell, at something close to 20Ah (I don't have the exact number as I didn't write down the Ah as I charged, having to shut it all off several times when leaving the house for work and such, just a general idea of the total. Very unscientific, and I meant to note it all down, but ended up being in too much of a hurry to leave for work each time).


Now I am using the Venom RC charger to do a discharge test on it. I added a balance lead for the charger to read cell voltages, which i salvaged off a damaged RC pack Pdf had sent (I used that one because several leads were already removed from the pack, whereas most of the others I have are intact).

The Venom says it will do 5A discharge testing, but that isn't really true. It might do 5A at a certain total wattage, which is a lot lower than the wattage put out by the pack at 12.3V. At that voltage, it only does 2.0A. Eventually, when the pack reached about 11.8V, it increased to 2.1A, and later to 2.2A at around 11.6V. So I guess it is basically keeping the wattage output from the pack steady, at whatever the max wattage of the Venom's discharge circuitry can handle.

This is the opposite of the way I would actually want to test it--I'd rather have it *decrease* the current load on it as the pack gets lower in voltage/capacity, but it is what it is. If I had time to sit down and watch it or could be sure I would check it often enough, I would do a manual discharge with lamps or something resistive, at a higher current, which would then drop both wattage and current as voltage dropped.

I cant' find a way in teh Venom to change the final minimum discharge voltage per-cell, though I thought it did have a way to do that I can't find it now. I can choose how many cells in the pack, whcih is 3s for this one, but it always goes to 3.0V/cell for the cutoff point. I guess that's fine, since I want to test these things deeply anyway.


So far there is AFAICT zero heating of the cells, they remain at room temperature--below it, actually, by 2 degrees now, 1 degree an hour ago, as the Venom heats the air in the kitchen up. Starting cell temperature using an old aquatic thermometer with the bulb between any two cells was 78F, and current temperature is 86F (room temp is 88F now, started at 78F). Fortunately today is almost 10F cooler outside than it was yesterday, at only 92F, or the house would be even hotter inside, potentially affecting test results--it was 91F in the house itself when I got home from work yesterday.

Cells are within 0.03V of each other during discharge so far, I think. I am having trouble reading the graph in LogView as it runs, but the Venom display shows less variation than that (0.01V max difference).

I accidentally unclipped the SLA-to-Venom power lead a few minutes into the test, so the first log is pretty short. Then I also forgot to turn off the safety shut off for capacity, or increase it from the 5000mAh default it's at, so the first test stopped at that point, around 2.5 hours into the discharge. The third test is still running, after having increased the limit to the theoretical remaining capacity of the pack. I figure there will be time enough to test half the pack capacity before I have to stop the test and put the pack in safe storage before I leave for work.


I was going to start this test last night, but I think what I ate for lunch had something wrong with it, as about an hour after eating I felt like emptying myself and collapsing. I managed to make it thru the rest of my shift, barely, and only finally puked about halfway home. As a coworker pointed out, at least I didn't have to roll the window down first. :lol: :roll: I felt pretty bad all night long and part of this morning, so I didn't get out of bed to do much until after midday, which kinda screwed up a lot of plans I had for today. Since I don't go in till late this evening for work, I went ahead and started the discharge test anyway, to see how far it gets before I have to leave.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:51 pm

Test is still going well so far, am on fifth segment of the first discharge test; it'll finish this time.

I forgot that I had the little analog ammeter on the pack, until I glanced at it while setting it up last night, and noted it said only a hair over 1A, while the Venom said 2.3A. I know that little meter isn't perfectly accurate, but it isn't that far off, either. So I hooked up the Turnigy Watt Meter (which isn't the most accurate either, but it's an easy third reading without pulling the CA off of the bike.). That reads very different from the Venom in every category. Not terribly surprising, but I think I trust the TWM more than the Venom, as the TWM readings when used with a Watts Up or CA in series with it tended to be pretty close to either of those.
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There is some voltage drop across the TWM (and the little ammeter) but even totalled up is not even 5% of the 400mV difference between the TWM's voltage readings and the Venom's.

The TWM reports 1.85A while the Venom shows 2.3A, and the little ammeter 1.1A. TWM counted 4.9Ah when the Venom said 6.8! That's a pretty severe difference, and likely would result in undercharging of batteries when it's set to cut off at the "capacity" of the pack, and started from "drained".

So, while I will have useful information from the discharge curves themselves, I cant' take the actual numbers at face value.


I also forgot to post some pics of stuff from yesterday and a few days prior when I last fixed the rear tire.

Yesterday I fixed the turn signal switch temporarily, using a screw thru the hole where the square switch pin used to go before it broke off. I just had to deepen the hole until it went all the way thru the switch cover, so I could put the screw in thru from the outside. (I tried a couple of pinning methods first but they wouldn't even stay in as soon as I moved the switch). I am considering cutting off the screw head, but before I do I am looking for a slightly shorter screw of the same thread pitch/type/diameter, as that would also fix the problem:
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Then the day I fixed the rear tire, I snapped off the rightside collar on the clamping dropouts. No biggie, as I am not even sure it *needs* the clamp, and there's still one on the left side. I'll fix it later, next time I have to deal with rear wheel stuff, I guess.
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I suppose I probably tightened it too far, plus my weld obviously wasn't penetrating the collar far enough. It's ok; I already have an idea for a better clamp, once I find my thicker steel plate stuff.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:50 am

Discharge completed uneventfully, though as expected it didn't go down to actually 9V (3V/cell), because the Venom is reading voltages wrong. Once it stopped discharging (at what it thinks is 2.3A but is really 1.8A), cells went to :
From most positive first, 3.22, 3.27, 3.30, read using the Fluke DMM.
The Venom says they're at 3.15, 3.21, 3.24. Not a lot of difference, but defnite.

Some screenshots of Logview, one for each segment of the test. If I can figure out how to merge logs to make one long shot, I will, but right now I can't find a way to do it, or to set all the graphs to the same vertical scale so I could just stitch all the graphs together as pictures.

Also, I think something is wrong with some of the log files, as only the last two show the full length of the test. All teh others are cut short at only minutes worth of data, even though the file sizes on at least one of them indicate there should be hours' worth of data. :( Only the very first test actually was cut short, when I accidentally switched the Venom off. The other tests did have more data, which was displayed originally, before I saved the file and shut it all off to leave it, and later restarted the Venom for the next segment.

EDIT: I think that what is wrong is that Logview is actually saving only the first file in a session, and using the data from the first session when saving the next files. Unless Logview is closed and reopened, it can't save a new session! :( So unless the data is somehow still hidden inside the files and can be hacked out, it's now lost for the first charging sessions. :evil: The files are large enough to contain the correct data, but they won't display it in logview.
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Recharging is in progress now, at what the Venom thinks is 5A, but is really only 4A per the TWM. :roll: I was going to post the in-progress graph, but apparently if you save while logging is in progress, it does not actually save the log of what you are seeing, but rather some old cached copy of the last log before that. :? Totally bizarre. :roll: Anyway, so I waited to post this until the recharge was "done" according to the Venom.

EDIT: Actually, it is worse than that: apparently if you save a log file, and then start a new session by initiating a new cycle on the Venom, Logview does not know how to save any of that data, but instead just goes back and saves the old file's data instead (to the new filename you choose), whether or not logging is still in progress. :evil: That's really stupid.

So I could not save the data, and had to just take a screenshot on the laptop in the other room to post the graph. For some reason, even though it does not show the menu on screen, it captures the file menu dropdown, instead of the left side of the graph. That's even more bizarre. Then immediately after taking the screenshot, the program stopped responding for no explicable reason, and I had to kill it with Task manager. There has got to be a bug in the program somewhere strange to do this sort of thing.

Anyway, this is the screenshot full screen, so you cah see which graphs are which (if you can read them in the shrunken pic), and then below it is one that would have made it easier to read if it had been able to capture it.
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Note the green "capacity" line, it seems to reset at one point, which also makes no sense, and then start counting upward again. The display on the Venom doesn't do that, and continues counting up to 20 just fine. :?
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby Harold in CR » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:31 am

On those valve stem leaks, have you ever tried shrink tube to cover the whole stem, then air it up ?? Might be you are getting some kind of flexing and that fatigues the old rubber as the hot dry climate messes with the rubber ?
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:19 pm

Harold in CR wrote:On those valve stem leaks, have you ever tried shrink tube to cover the whole stem, then air it up ?? Might be you are getting some kind of flexing and that fatigues the old rubber as the hot dry climate messes with the rubber ?

I actually never thought of heatshrink. :oops: That will be my next trick. ;) I'll do that on the one I patched the stem of, and try it out, see if it keeps the patch in place. I'm pretty sure I have some of the right diameter.


The only flexing I can imagine happening (especially on the enlarged valve holes on my motor wheel) is the valve stem being thin enough that all the weight of my bikes plus me when hitting potholes/bumps is forcing the stem to expand, which the brass part can't do so only the rubber does, eventually tearing it. The stem itself isn't being pushed around by anything AFAICT, but without fixing a camera to the wheel and videoing it, I cant' tell for sure.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby Alan B » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:22 pm

With all the weight of your setup, and the daily use and reliability that you need, a moped tire would be good. They are also inexpensive. They do require clearance and to fit the rims.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:45 pm

I've been looking for a set of them locally for cheap enough to afford, preferably whole moped wheels with tires on them, used, that I can recycle into the bikes. So far a few sets have come up via people I know or meet, etc., but all of them either flaked out, sold or gave them to others before I got there (even though they said they were held for me), raised the price beyond new cost, or decided not to sell. :roll:

I have two sets of dirtbike wheels with tires, but A) they're knobbies and B) they're really big and heavy. I'm planning on using one of them anyway, on the newer bike being built for heavy-duty use, but on CrazyBike2 it's a bit much. I have considered it several times now, anyway, recently. :) But I'd need to either go front wheel drive again, or setup a middrive, and if I'm going that far I need to spend that time working on the new bike instead.



In today's news, that battery pack appears to be working normally. I left it on a headlight until the pack dropped to 10.8V (3.6V/cell), which took more than two hours, close to three I think. Unfortunately I forgot what time I started the test at, so I don't know exactly, and I also forgot to write down the wattmeter readings so I don't know what all the readings were. Too many distractions today with dogs and yardwork and housework. :roll: I almost forgot I was doing the test at all, and managed to remember only at the last minute.

Oh, and the final wattmeter results from the charging session just prior to that showed that it took in 22.3Ah, from 9.8V up to 12.42V (4.14V/cell).

I haven't recharged it yet, as the SLA used to run the Venom are still recharging on the Sorenson.


A couple of days ago, a coworker gave me one of his old MC helmets, a half-helmet by AFX. It's from 2007, FX-3 II, with the POW-MIA "you are not forgotten" logo on each side. It fits at least as well as my bicycle helmet, maybe better, and so far it doesn't seem to be too hot to wear. It should provide much better protection than a bicycle helmet, even the type like my swirly-colored Nutcase, should I ever need head protection in a crash or fall. I would prefer it not be black both for visibility and to stay cooler, but hey, I can't argue with it for the price. :) I'll probably add reflective tape to front and rear to increase visibility at least at night.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby texaspyro » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:44 pm

amberwolf wrote:I'll probably add reflective tape to front and rear to increase visibility at least at night.


Don't forget the obligitory duct tape and day-glo paint...
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby The fingers » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:13 pm

Be sure to write your blood type and emergency phone number on the inside if you do not carry a Red Cross donor card in your wallet. (got the idea from a MC rider @ work) Free stuff is great!
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Wed May 09, 2012 9:12 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Harold in CR wrote:On those valve stem leaks, have you ever tried shrink tube to cover the whole stem, then air it up ?? Might be you are getting some kind of flexing and that fatigues the old rubber as the hot dry climate messes with the rubber ?

I actually never thought of heatshrink. :oops: That will be my next trick. ;) I'll do that on the one I patched the stem of, and try it out, see if it keeps the patch in place. I'm pretty sure I have some of the right diameter.

This is now under test here:
viewtopic.php?p=576368#p576368
Image
though it hasn't seen a road test yet.


This morning I left to go help a friend put a harbor freight trailer together for his motorcycle, and about half a mile from the house the headlight on CrazyBike2 fell off. :roll:
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Metal fatigue from vibration on the road, with that heavy cantilevered load out on the old bike headlight mount, which was never meant to take this weight at that angle with the bending it had already taken to aim the light.
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I went back home and used a retail shelf bracket that was being tossed out during the remodels as a quick fix. Have to actually custom-make a new bracket that will let me pivot the light to aim it without just bending the bracket to get it right.
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Only a bit of filing/grinding at the top of that slot was needed to let the pivot bolt fit thru it, but it can't actually pivot because the bracket sits right against the weld for the square tube to the headlight frame.
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Another wierd problem is that somewhere along the way, a couple of miles or so, the disc brakes just stopped grabbing. They work mechanically, and the pads "grip" the rotor fine. Adjusting the pre-tension on the cable changes nothing; I can already get full braking movement well before the brake handle reaches the handlebar.

While I was at the friend's place, I even swapped the pads on the caliper for the ones on the complete spare caliper I have been carrying with me since I installed this, just in case the cheap-looking flimsy-feeling caliper came apart (which hasn't happened). No change. Same with using the whole spare caliper.

So that leaves a problem wwith the disc itself? I see and feel nothing wrong with it, no oiliness, no dust, color changes, etc. But there is ZERO friction on it--I can hand-spin the wheel offground, and squeeze the disc brake lever, and no change in spin rate happens, even though the pads appear to be making full contact with the disc. :?

Fortunatley I still have regen braking and the rim brakes, so I used those for the ride home. About 90% of the way home, maybe 3/4 mile from the house, the very light sprinkling rain that had just started turned into a heckuva windstorm (enough to almost blow me off the road, and nearly overturning a tall but small van when it passed out of the wind-shadow of a building), and really started raining cats and dogs. Fur everywhere, it was terrible. ;)

I had to slam on my brakes for a couple of car drivers that suddenly forgot how to drive (this happens every time it rains here--the water melts their brains or something), and guess what? The disc brakes worked--screaming horribly, and nowhere near as well as they should, but they worked. :?

So....contamination on the disc itself is all I can think of. I got home and used ammonia to clean the disc, in case it is oily it should help remove it. It is still raining a little out there, though the wind has just about died to a breeze, so I am not yet going to go test it. When the rain stops I will see if the brakes are working again as they should. They do stop the wheel completely now in the off-ground test, and I can't hand-spin it against them.


The contamination theory bothers me, though, because there is NOTHING I could have ridden thru that would do that, especially in the very short time between leaving the house and the failure of the brakes. Nothing on the wheel/hub/etc that could have done it either. It is just hte only logical remaingin answer.


As a side note, I have for a while been checking the motro and controller temperatures by "manual" feel test, and they're a lot hotter than they used to be when in front. Teh cotnroller is still only warm, but it is quite noticeably so, where it wasn't really when in front frame. The motor is too hot to touch the windings right after stopping on any portion of the ride. I can just barely touch them before I must remove my fingers from them. The covers are pretty warm near the coils, but not super-hot. Between spoke flanges is also not hot, just warm. Axle and whatnot is all cool.

So it is only at the windings, meaning that being in teh rear between the cargo pods and behind/under the seat, it is getting nowhere near the airflow it used to when in the fornt fork. Also, the change in covers with different cooling hole types is not doing what I had hoped (though it probably is cooling it significantly--I need to test this with a thermometer and sensor, with cooling as-is and with the holes all sealed with tape).
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Tue May 15, 2012 1:57 am

The disc brake in front is still acting wierd, and I haven't figured it out yet. It doesn't really have any braking power at all, no matter how hard I squeeze it. Kinda like wet rubber rim brakes on a shiny steel rim. :( And they make a horrendous noise when just beginning to engage; just about like car disc brakes that are worn down a lot do--not a squeal, but a metallic grinding that is beyond loud. I need to take them all apart and clean the rotor again, then check and clean the whole caliper, pads, etc., and see what happens.



The rear wheel flat problem has returned as well. It is a fast-slow leak, in that while I ride and am at work (6-8 hours or so) it does not seem to lose any pressure at 55psi, but overnight (12-14 hours) it loses all of it's pressure. I haven't taken the wheel and tire off to check the tube yet, but I don't see a problem with the valve stem so far, so I'm not sure where the leak might be.



The temporary headlight bracket hasn't failed yet, which is good cuz I havent' had time to dig out the stuff to make the new one from.



Other than that, things seem to be working ok.


It's getting hot enough (102F outside when I left for work today about 3pm, and 90F in the house, 92F inside and out when I got home about 9pm), that I need to get cracking on the swamp cooler fixes for this year. Stuff I have meant to do all year last year and this winter and never took time to get to. Definitely gotta do it now. Will probably delay several other projects.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby JohnC » Tue May 15, 2012 8:50 am

amberwolf wrote: I need to get cracking on the swamp cooler fixes for this year.


AW, Can you post your swamp cooler design on your youtube page? Thanks.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Tue May 15, 2012 2:59 pm

The existing design, or my planned fixes?

The existing one is a Mastercool from probably 15-20 years ago, at a guess, and the casing is all rusted out on the bottom. A temporary fix a few years ago was to use some clogged-up sprayfoam cans and smear their contents around the outside of the tray, with remnants of old clothes stuffed into the holes left when I poked at some of the more rusted sections. It worked ok, but still leaked, and birds have pecked and pulled quite a bit of the foam in the leaky wet areas, making it mostly pointless after a few months or so.

At some point the old rusty pump died, and I connected the water inlet directly to the drip pipe over the cardboard on the air inlet, and set the valves for just a trickle, which mostly wet the cardboard enough for cooling the air as it passed thru, but it wastes a fair bit of water. Technically it's not wasted, as it waters the mulberry tree that partly shades that end of the house and the cooler itself, but it is a lot of water--probably a hundred gallons a day including the water evaporated into the cooling air, if I run it 24/7. :shock: So it only gets run long enough to cool the house down to livability, then shut off both water and motor.

I now have an old aquarium powerhead that should work as a pump, but the theory isn't tested yet.

Later I was given a disintegrating misting "rope", which I reduced to the non-broken sections and sort of wrapped around the intake end of the cooler. The misting wastes very little water, as almost all of it gets sucked into the air intake, and it cools more efficiently than the drip-pipe-soaked cardboard the cooler was designed around. But it makes it much more humid in the house, whcih makes it feel a lot hotter once I shut the cooler off. :/


So my current plans revolve around welding up a new water pan for the cooler, and making up whatever I need to get the aquarium powerhead to work in place of the old pump. Most likely the pan will be made from the sheet metal of the bodies of the several salvaged clothes washers and dryers I have here, as that's the only larger sheets I have available, other than old retail shelving, which isn't any thicker metal and is harder to get apart.


The main motor of the system is pretty old, and I have to lube the bearings several times a season now, or the motor fails to startup and just hums. :( I'm considering an oil-filled hubmotor to replace it with. :) I fleetingly considered Auraslip's broken-axle 9C, but I'd have to re-seal the covers to do the oil-filling. I have to scrape the deposits off the motor nameplate and see what it's rated at, to figure out if the hubmotor could survive continuous usage at those power levels. I don't have a power meter that can read the wattage usage of the existing AC motor, but I might see about borrowing a Killawatt meter from SRP (they let you do that thru the libraries here, IIRC). Not sure if the KAW can handle the startup current, though.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:07 am

Guess he wasn't really interested in the swamp cooler, with no reply after a couple of weeks. :(


Anyway, speaking of swamp coolers, since I still haven't finished fixing mine, a friend brought me the "portable" one he uses in his shop/patio/etc., to borrow for the summer (or until I fix mine, at least):
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I will have to make a duct to run from it's output to a window so I can properly use it to push air thru the house (rather than just keep adding humidity to existing internal air), but it works very well. I have not yet measured the temperature difference it can create at its output vs the intake air, but it feels like 20F or more. Should be enough.


FWIW, I haven't been riding CrazyBike2 (except for shopping trips) for the last week and a half or so; instead I have been riding the "new" Fusin Test Bike here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39877
I definitely prefer CB2, mostly due to seating and cargo capacity, but it is nice to have full-suspension on the Fusin Test bike, making me want to finish CB2's ultimate replacement even more.

I had been doing some testing/troubleshooting on that Fusin test bike, when I was interrupted by the postman delivering a box of goodies from Methods. He had said he was sending it, but no full list of what was in there. Naturally I had to stop and see what was in it...

Batteries. Lots of 18650s, some individual little prismatics, and some RC LiPo -looking cells.
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And a single A123 cell (I've never had one in my hands before, and somehow expected them to be smaller, though bigger than the 18650s).
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No time to even really look thru them, so for now they all go in a box in the grill outside, just like my known-dud RC LiPo cells. :) (just in case, you know? cuz the USPS beat the box up pretty bad)


Lots of connectors, including some alligator clips I actually was wishing I had more of, just a couple days ago...now I do! Lots of JST cables, which I can use to make Y-cables or extensions or whatever. Lots of little red high-current plugs that I forget what they're called, polarized. Some other assorted bits and bobs I didn't have time to really look thru yet.
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At least part of an Eagletree setup; I haven't even read the labels on everything yet. :oops:
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A throttle...
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...presumably for this controller, which appears to be a monster, a prototype experiment, I think. :)
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I hooked it up to CrazyBike2's 9C real quick, and it powers on and argues with the motor about which way it's trying to go, but I didn't have time to find the right phase/hall combo yet (I tried a couple of quick phase combo changes, one is forward but grindy and one is backward but grindy, and another is nohting at all but incredibly high current even just touching the throttle).


After I get done with the Fusin testing I need to finish (probably tomorrow night, I hope), I want to try hooking this thing up right and see if I can burn out CrazyBike2's motor (not really....but maybe see if I can wheelie it a little :lol:).

There's also some prototype bits of the LVC/HVC system he's working on:
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These will also eventually go on CB2, on the RC LiPo packs I am eventually going to get tested and repaired and built into a bigger /longer range pack or add-on pack to the existing experimental one. For now, they will get wired into the ammocan pack that's on the Fusin bike, as soon as I get a chance to do it.

Then those friends came by with that swamp cooler I pictured above, we went to the store and stuff, and time got away from me again. Then when I got back to the house (later than planned), another friend was already waiting for me, to pick me up so we could go get this:
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It's an older powerchair, brushed motors just like what I used on CrazyBike2 the first time around, the little 300W 2-pole type I think.
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Uses 2 35Ah SLA,
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which were "recently replaced" by the last owner (probably several months or more ago, at a guess); who then replaced the whole chair when that didnt' fix his problems with it. It sat unused, until now when he's having his old place cleaned out, and rather than toss this like so much other stuff has had to be, my friend thought (correctly!) that I could use it. :) For ease of lifting in transport, we took the seat off, batteries out, etc., so we could actually lift the things into and out of his truck.
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It's recharging right now; was at 23.5V resting according to my WU meter (whcih already has the right Anderson SB50 on it to just plug right in). It's now charging using it's built-in charger, monitored with the WU, at about 2.8A (charger's max is 3A).
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It does seem to work, though I only tested it as the chassis, with the joystick unit taken off the chair.
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I didn't test all teh controls as the cover/labels has come off of them, and I have no idea which button does what (except I found the power button by accident, first try, by lucky guess, using a bit of metal to short the switch pads).


I'm not quite sure yet what I will turn it into....



Another tidbit that was going to be tossed is this old Sony Stereocorder, which is almsot identical to the old Sony Tapecorder I first experimented with recording my compositions on from my junky keyboard of the time. (I still have the tapes, but not the Tapecorder). I only had time to just plug it in and see if it would play, and it doesnt, but the capstan doesn't pop up and hold the tape against the rollers/etc like it should, so it will need disassembly and cleaning or repair (it was very dusty with sticky dust on the outside, could be inside, too). Gonna be a long while bfore I have time to do anything with it. :(
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Now if I could just find some spare time (while still having an income) like I find these tidbits to work on, I could actually *do* something with them!
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby auraslip » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:17 am

What a haul!
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:37 am

Aaaaand, I blew up the controller. :roll:

Took me something like 3 hours of dicking around to find the right phase/hall combo, because the connector on my motor end of the halls apparently had gone intermittent on a pin somewhere.

First, I thought I could be clever, and use the lights on the ebike motor/controller tester unit (like the one Lyen sells) that Mdd0127 gave me, to figure out what the combo was without actually hooking up the motor/controller together and potentially blowing up FETs or something (I did that once with a bad combo, on an 18FET). Theoretically, it should have worked. Really, it probably did, but due to the intermittent connector problem at the motor end, I woudlnt' have known it--it would just end up as one of the "growly" bad combos. :cry:

So after wasting way more time than I should have allowed for that, I figured the theory was flawed and just tried the John in CR method, of trying the phases till I got a good combo (backward in this case), then I swapped two of them, and then searched for the right hall sequence, but I could never get the right one--they were *ALL* bad, which is impossible, because I got a good REVERSE.

So I went back to the reverse that worked, and now THAT didnt' work. I got hte tester out and everything worked on that...so halls were good and phases were good on both motor and controller.

WTF. :shock: :evil:

I was about ready to give up, cuz I was really tired and I was also really hot, as I had not yet noticed that that evap cooler pictured above (which I was trying out) had run out of water, but had already succeeded in making it more than 50% humidity in the front half of the house, and was now just making the air warmer as the big motor runnign the squirrel cage fan added it's heat to the air, without any cooling going on. I can't even take off my shirt or I'll get eaten alive by the little mosquitos that seem to warp in from nowhere in the bajillions everytime a room gets darker than full sunlight (which in my house is all the time, as it's usually more like twilight in here at best, trying to save energy/money).


But I persevered, and just cut the connectors off both controller and motor, as I had no more JSTs to replace the motor connector with, and just started alligator-clipping them together in the combos. On the fourth one, I got it, finally. WHen I checked, it turned out to be the one that it SHOULD have been based on my ebike-tester experiment, although now I can't remember how I arrived at the experiment OR the results, of course. :roll:


Now, all excited, I looped all the wires on there (not tying anything down), soldered and taped the hall wire connections, moved the CA back to this bike off the FUsin test bike, and then took CrazyBike2 outside to test it on the road. :D


First thing that happened was....nothing. Huh? It had just worked...so I checked all the connectiosn, power cycled it, and it worked for an instant, then nothing. Great. Played with the throttle connector, because as I bumped that with my knee it seemed to work again. Nothing. Red herring. PUlled the controller out of the tool-box side (left black box) where I'd kinda just dropped it in there for the test, and realized it probably had clicked the little Hi-Low voltage pack button, putting it into 100V pack mode. My pack is only 58.3 max, so.... Clicked the switch, retried it, and whammo! Powah!


Ok, so now I FINALLY get it on the road, and start going....160A on the CA for realtime battery current as I took off....wow. Guess I shouldn't hard-throttle it on THIS controller like I usually do.

MUCH gentler on the throttle, I let it build up speed, till I hit 20MPH and coasted to a stop...because I forgot to hook up the ebrake, so no regen braking, and the disc brake still hasn't been fixed, so it does almost nothing, and the rim brakes aren't adjsuted tight enough cuz the rim is not true enough and they just rub, so they only help to slow and stop at low speeds, after regen has done most of the work, on the regualr 12FET. Good thing it was after midnight with no one on the road.


Turned around, and took off slower this time, but it was still pretty high--124A at startup! Didn't tail off much till I got past 12MPH, where it was still at 60A, but it sure did accelerate fast compared to normal. I hit the throttle hard, and saw 196A on there as the bike practically shot forward, feeling the G's for a second, and let it go, again coasting aroudn 17MPH down to my front yard...then I touched the throttle to push it up over the sloping curb and onto my front walkway, to the house, and halfway up that it died. No response.

I figured I must've hit the hi/lo voltage button with the bump getting over the sidewalk, but no, that wasnt' it. Noticed the phase wires at the motor side were actually kinda hot, not melty-hot but definitely not happy. They're not beefy or anything, just standard 9C 2807 phase wires, so I didn't expect them to take this abuse for long (which is why this was just a short 1/8 mile trip at most).

My first worry was that I'd melted the motor, but it wasnt' hot, not even as warm on the windings as it would be if I had a full commute to work. Lifted wheel off ground by tilting bike up on a cargo pod edge, and spun wheel by hand--could definitely feel resistance, though not "cogging". Unplugged phase wires from controller, and resistance went away, so the problem is in the controller. :(


I haven't opened it up yet; I just don't have time to fix it right now even if it's easy; I already wasted way way too much time tonight as it was. (and 20 minutes typing this all up, too, so I don't forget what happened/etc).

So, Methods, sorry it didnt' last very long....I didnt' even get a wheelie out of it. :lol: I'll have to see what I blew up in it later, fix it, and maybe undo some of the shunt mod so it isn't at quite so much risk of frying next time.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby methods » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:48 am

Just throw it in the gutter and move on. That's my advice. Use it for parts.
That entire run of prototypes were failure prone due (at least in part) to the crooked drilling of the heat sink. We saw a lot of blown fets on those. In hind sight I would have trimmed the fet tabs more aggressively or looped insulator around each one.

Dont post any pics of the inside of that controller or I will be forced to fly to your house and dismantle all your bikes.

I have a run of 24 fet controllers starting to trickle in. Once they get here maybe I can send you one of my fussy 12fets. I have a couple with sensitive throttle response. 100V 70A.



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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby methods » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:48 am

Just throw it in the gutter and move on. That's my advice. Use it for parts.
That entire run of prototypes were failure prone due (at least in part) to the crooked drilling of the heat sink. We saw a lot of blown fets on those. In hind sight I would have trimmed the fet tabs more aggressively or looped insulator around each one.

Dont post any pics of the inside of that controller or I will be forced to fly to your house and dismantle all your bikes.

I have a run of 24 fet controllers starting to trickle in. Once they get here maybe I can send you one of my fussy 12fets. I have a couple with sensitive throttle response. 100V 70A.



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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby amberwolf » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:07 pm

Ok, no surgery pics. :lol:

OTOH, I'd get to meet you shortly before we killed each other. :P

Still probably gonna fix it someday when I get back to the powerchair motor project.

Crazybike2 still has it's working 12FET on there, so no problems about that. I just figured it'd be fun to try this one on it, just to see how differently it might perform. :oops:
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Postby methods » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:19 pm

That will teach you to try and have fun with free stuff you found in a box.
If you want to troubleshoot something go after that Eagle Tree. I think I accidentally plugged 100V into it and let some smoke out. Never even bothered to look - just threw it in the bin. There is an RPM sensor, air speed sensor, and some other goodies. I instrumented my RC car before it exploded and got some good data. Airspeed rocks.

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amberwolf wrote:Crazybike2 still has it's working 12FET on there, so no problems about that. I just figured it'd be fun to try this one on it, just to see how differently it might perform. :oops:
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