Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

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ajtest   100 mW

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by ajtest » Sep 03 2010 1:55pm

Having bought one of these controllers months ago I am just about to wire it up to some lipo. To be on the safe side I ordered 2 extra 5s packs just in case some were DOA.

As HobbyKing (Germany) have sent me 10 fully working packs I was wondering rather than going for 20s 2P and leaving 2 packs on the bench at home - if anyone has run this controller with a CA at 25S? (X5305)

Cheers

Andrew

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by texaspyro » Sep 03 2010 2:13pm

I don't know about running 25S, but having some spare packs seems like a good idea. I like my packs to be well matched and balanced. If you can arrange your packs to that they are easily accessible and wired so that the sub-packs can be swapped out, it is a good idea to rotate the spare packs into the bike. At every charge/week/whenever (but regularly), remove the sub-packs from one end of the stack, add the spare ones to the other.

This keeps the cells well matched. Dropping a fresh pack into the middle of a string with many cycles on it can be hard on the cells.

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by methods » Sep 03 2010 2:36pm

ajtest wrote:As HobbyKing (Germany) have sent me 10 fully working packs I was wondering rather than going for 20s 2P and leaving 2 packs on the bench at home - if anyone has run this controller with a CA at 25S? (X5305)
Do not run the controller on 25S -> 24S maximum.
Even if you only charge to 4V/cell -> Still, NO 25S.

I wrote a paragraph of reasons - but deleted them.
Just take my word for it.
This controller is already on the ragged, ragged, ragged edge on 24S

(Notice I said 24S and not 100V -> This is because I am taking into consideration surface charge and the subsequent burn-off)

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by El_Steak » Sep 03 2010 3:26pm

methods wrote: This controller is already on the ragged, ragged, ragged edge on 24S
Good to know!

I now have close to 1000km on that controller at 24s and maybe another 500km or so at 18s.

Rock solid and always cool to the touch (as opposed to my poor 9c motor).
TidalForce S-750 frame
Rear 2807 in a 24" wheel fed by a Methods 100V 100A controller
LiPo config: 24s3p 15ah
All the details here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=17166

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by methods » Sep 04 2010 12:39am

I only run 24S on my bikes.
Other than my original 12 fet (that blew for other reasons) I have never blown a controller on 24S.
I have lost a fet here or there - but never a melt-down.

BUT -> Take that up to 25S and your margin will drop like a rock.
Running electrolytic caps at greater than the rated voltage is asking to get your teeth kicked out :mrgreen:
The IR fets have margin - but those caps are Chinese.

Speaking of 9C motors -> Those motors are the greatest.
I have totally trashed two 5305's but I have yet to kill a 9C -> Even after taking one up to >220C (smoke show on Video).
I still run that motor on my trike.....

So yea guys - stick to 24S and you will enjoy your controller much longer.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 04 2010 12:49am

methods wrote:I only run 24S on my bikes.
Other than my original 12 fet (that blew for other reasons) I have never blown a controller on 24S.
I have lost a fet here or there - but never a melt-down.

BUT -> Take that up to 25S and your margin will drop like a rock.
Running electrolytic caps at greater than the rated voltage is asking to get your teeth kicked out :mrgreen:
The IR fets have margin - but those caps are Chinese.

Speaking of 9C motors -> Those motors are the greatest.
I have totally trashed two 5305's but I have yet to kill a 9C -> Even after taking one up to >220C (smoke show on Video).
I still run that motor on my trike.....

So yea guys - stick to 24S and you will enjoy your controller much longer.

-methods

He is just trying to hog all the performance for himself. Run 25s, and do lots of stall/low RPM motor operation *. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by methods » Sep 04 2010 1:42am

High voltage + Low RPM = Good

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 04 2010 1:47am

Arlin+Lipo+Bmx+Cops Looking For him=Good :wink:
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by El_Steak » Sep 18 2010 3:52pm

I'm planning on adding a switch tomy bike so I can run my Lipo pack in 24s3p (100V 15ah) for high performance or 12s6p (50V 30ah) for long range.

I know there's a switch inside the Methods controller for high and low voltage range. When switching my pack to 12s LiPo (50V hot), can I leave the controller input voltage switch on the high setting or do I risk messing it up?
TidalForce S-750 frame
Rear 2807 in a 24" wheel fed by a Methods 100V 100A controller
LiPo config: 24s3p 15ah
All the details here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=17166

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by methods » Sep 18 2010 8:09pm

Why dont you just use the 3-Speed switch?
Set it to 25%, 50%, and 100%
There will be no appreciable difference between running the switch at a lower setting and running your batteries in a different configuration. The only real difference to be appreciated will be when you screw up while switching the pack from Series to Parallel and get KFF. This is the same rule as charging - Set your pack up and DONT CHANGE IT. You were in the Lipo thread and I am sure you saw time and time again where people were changing their pack configuration and forgetting to change the balance taps at the same time as the andersons and BAM-> Kentucky Fried Fingers.

As a reminder -> The 3spd switch literally re-maps your throttle.... it is not a 3spd switch at all because in actuality it limits both speed AND current. This means that if you set it to LOW and crank the throttle it is equivalent to just tipping into the "regular" throttle. You end up with the exact same effect as 12S - only now you can have 12S or 24S on the fly. You do not suffer any of the inefficiencies that you normally get with 24S (big shoot-thru currents on takeoff). Yea - sure maybe the controller runs a few percent less efficient but I dont think you will notice it. If you really want to increase range - just set your current limit to 20A.

I can not think of any benefit of running your packs in parallel rather than series. Only drawbacks.

Now - to answer your question....
Yes, if you run 12S you have to set the switch to the 12S mode
Will it work in the 24S mode? Yes
Do you want to do that? errr... I wouldn't - stresses the components to run them outside the range I spec'ed out.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by John in CR » Sep 18 2010 8:32pm

Methods,

Wouldn't steep long hills be the exception to that? Partial throttle up hills means you're limiting the phase current only by chopping it up into narrower tall spikes doesn't it?

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by geoff57 » Sep 19 2010 5:46am

Hi
Not really by reducing the power level with the "speed" setting you do reduce the ability to climb hills, BUT it depends what you need to climb hills. If a setup that can climb hills is normally 12S if you are running at 24S then a setting of about 50% will give you about the same amount of power. It is best to find the ideal correct level on level ground, also just remember with a LHM switch changing to full power is easily.
There is one thing to remember weather you either change the battery configuration or altering the "speed" setting you will not change the ability to climb hills, with a car you go into a lower gear that is not the same thing, a lower gear allows the motor to still spin at the same speed but the wheels turn slower giving more torque to the car's wheels. With a hub motor the torque is set to a fixed value, you will go higher up a hill with a higher voltage as the bike goes faster, it will stop eventually. The only way to get round that is to fit a motor with enough torque to climb the steepest hill you want to, this will give you a slower top speed on the flat, so you will need to have a battery pack with a higher voltage to get the high speed you want.
You never get both speed and hill climbing on the same bike, if you did then there would not be such a wide variety of different designs of vehicles. The only way to get speed and hill climbing is to move the motor out of the wheel and put a gearbox in the drive train that way a low gear gives you low speed high torque and a high gear would give you higher speeds but no torque.

Geoff

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by El_Steak » Sep 19 2010 9:58am

I tried with the 3 speed switch yesterday. I programmed the lower setting to give me around 20-23 mph top speed. I then did an 8 km run in which I went easy on the throttle and pedal-assisted a bit. I got a pretty bad 19 wh/km (30wh/mi) result. This is higher than I expected hence the reason I want to try switching the pack to a lower voltage to see if I'd get better efficiency.

I'll do the same run at 12s and let you know if it makes any difference
TidalForce S-750 frame
Rear 2807 in a 24" wheel fed by a Methods 100V 100A controller
LiPo config: 24s3p 15ah
All the details here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=17166

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by Arlo1 » Sep 25 2010 3:17pm

This is what this controller can do :mrgreen:
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by novembersierra28 » Nov 03 2010 5:26pm

I hope it's alright if I ask this, but, it is my understanding that this controller rated for 72v but handles 100v?
I think you need a 26" on the rear and 20" on the front, that would stop the wheelies
a video of a driveby/top speed stats / acceleration would be terrific, i'm dying to get my hands on one of these :D
Arlo1 wrote:This is what this controller can do :mrgreen:

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by Arlo1 » Nov 04 2010 10:01am

novembersierra28 wrote:I hope it's alright if I ask this, but, it is my understanding that this controller rated for 72v but handles 100v?
I think you need a 26" on the rear and 20" on the front, that would stop the wheelies
a video of a driveby/top speed stats / acceleration would be terrific, i'm dying to get my hands on one of these :D
Arlo1 wrote:This is what this controller can do :mrgreen:
Haha I dont want to stop the wheelies!
It needs some small mods to handle 100 volts!
My Leaf motor controller build. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&p=963227#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
HI power controller design. Game Changer
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by steveo » Nov 04 2010 7:24pm

Arlo1 wrote:This is what this controller can do :mrgreen:
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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by methods » Nov 04 2010 7:39pm

I suggest mounting a basket on the handlebars to help stop the wheelies.
Fill it full of bricks.

If you dont have bricks - then might I suggest a 5 Gallon Alhambra water bottle full of gasoline and 10 boxes of strike anywhere matches....

Or a kid would work too. Just make sure he weighs at lest 50 lbs. :mrgreen:

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by The Mighty Volt » Nov 06 2010 12:24pm

@Methods, or anyone else who knows the history of motor controllers....what is the reasoning behind the significant size difference in the Crystalyte and Infineon controller builds?

Thanks.

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by Pedalex » Apr 01 2011 3:48am

hi!

is this 100/50V Controler still available? and where to get it. i clicked the BUY HERE link in the first post but it was a dead link


some noob questions:
does the low voltage cut off switch too when i switch from 100 to 50V? i mean can i set a LVC of let´s say 76V in the 100V mode and can set a 40V Cut off in 50V mode? :?:
i have to 48(54,6)V packs in series so that´s 108 V - or is 100V the absolute max??

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by geoff57 » Apr 01 2011 7:45am

Pedalex wrote:hi!

is this 100/50V Controler still available? and where to get it. i clicked the BUY HERE link in the first post but it was a dead link


some noob questions:
does the low voltage cut off switch too when i switch from 100 to 50V? i mean can i set a LVC of let´s say 76V in the 100V mode and can set a 40V Cut off in 50V mode? :?:
i have to 48(54,6)V packs in series so that´s 108 V - or is 100V the absolute max??
Hi
Not sure on the voltage switching question but as for the max voltage I think the caps in the controller were the controlling factor, if you want to go over 100V then go for a 18 Fet controller by lyen that should be able to handle your voltage and the latest 18 Fet controllers have the same VR system as the smaller high voltage controllers of the infineon type, I personally think high voltage is a bad way of putting it the latest method is more like a wide voltage window controller, the previous type had a window of 44V the new controllers can go from 36V to over 100V without any component changes.

Geoff

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by ajtest » May 24 2011 11:00am

I've had one of these controllers for > a year now and love it.

Recently I added some more lipo to take up the pack from 20S to 24S.

All good so far except that I have lost the regen braking which I liked a lot mostly for the smooth braking rather than any efficiency improvement.

Anyone managed to get it working at 24S?

Andrew

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by Doctorbass » May 24 2011 2:07pm

100% working on 24s lipo or makita cells

but dont push it too hard with high rpm per volt motor.. ike the 5302 or 5303.. the very high phase current will blow the 4110 fets 100V rated :wink:

These controlelr handle prettty good 24s with slower motor like the HT or 5304 or 5305

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by methods » May 25 2011 12:48am

I set the maximum regen voltage to 90V. When I developed these things were still "new" and I did not have any test data to ensure things would not blow if I let regen go up to 100V.

If you want regen to go up to 100V just change out R12. You will easily see where I modified it on the board. The calculation is trivial - but you should research that and find the answer for yourself. As a starting point - I believe that I changed it to about 1k.

Good luck :)

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Methods 100V 100A Programmable Regen Controller

Post by ajtest » May 25 2011 4:16am

Thanks for that Methods - I thought it might be something along those lines as it was working fine at 20s.

I guess the question is - Doctorbass - what value did you use for R12?

Andrew

X5305 on 700c Turnigy 25c 24S 2P

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