Be bloody careful out there

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Morgan   100 µW

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Be bloody careful out there

Post by Morgan » Feb 12 2010 4:54am

Recently I had a wee safety issue that will be best summed up by the photo.

If someone could tell me how to upload a photo here, you will see exactly what I mean.

Please bear in mind I am not too technically minded.....

M.


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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by AussieJester » Feb 12 2010 6:00am

You can use the ES server to upload pics to look under where you type your message
hit the browse button, navigate to the picture on your computer select it then click the add file
button, bout as simple as it can be...
assess essentials007.JPG
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assess essentials001.JPG
assess essentials001.JPG (173.59 KiB) Viewed 792 times
And people say Lithium Polymer are dangerous :shock:

KiM

EDIT: wanna sell that diff in there amongst the charred remains?

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 12 2010 6:05am

Looks like a headways pack still plugged into the charger?

What happened there? How over voltaged do you have to get a headways cell to make it pop like that. :)
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Lyen   10 kW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Lyen » Feb 12 2010 6:45am

OMG! How did it happened? Is the BMS still okay with the Lifepo4 pack?
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monster   100 kW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by monster » Feb 12 2010 8:07am

was it padded to protect it from bumps? thats how one of my packs blew. no padding means the insulation gets worn down by rubbing against the supports, then you get a short circuit. this might not be the case here but its always my first thought whenever i see a pictre like this.

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TylerDurden   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by TylerDurden » Feb 12 2010 8:39am

Those appear to be PSI greenies that ship with the cyclone kits.

Venting with flame is not supposed to happen with LFP in overcharge; although it may get hot enough to ignite combustible packing material.
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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 12 2010 8:44am

Something vented forcefully enough to blow the end off the crimped and tack welded steel cans of the cells.

It appears it was a large pack, if the the plastic sack to the far right in the photo is holding the rest of the cells in the pack as it appears to be.
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TylerDurden   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by TylerDurden » Feb 12 2010 9:01am

I think the plastic is covering another ride.

Monster has a good point. From the other pics on picasa, the bike was in a crash. If the connecting straps or balance leads got bent, they could wear through the insulation and short.

Usually, a poster will ask "WTF happened???"... in this case, the poster seems to know, but isn't saying.
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Ypedal   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Ypedal » Feb 12 2010 9:27am

More Input !! :lol:

( I see a cyclone setup on there with the telltale chargers and red connectors with XLR charge plugs.. PSI greenie cells )

But please, More information !!??
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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 12 2010 9:29am

Good observation Tyler. I just looked through that album myself, and it looks like the trike was in a fairly major wreck, enough to fold up and break a rim, and evidence of sliding on its side.

It appears there was no battery venting or visible issues directly after the wreck.

Then it appears the bike chassis/wheels were repaired, and the damaged battery pack plugged in to be charged.

If straps or wires in the pack were shorting cell groups in the pack, it could easily result in the voltage of some cells being doubled or tripled.

It would be fun to do some cell testing on the effects of bringing a similar cell, like a headways, up to 20-30v and see what happens. :)

I know just the guy for the job. ;)
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

Morgan   100 µW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Morgan » Feb 12 2010 9:31am

Get a smoke alarm.

Small fire caused this to burn.

Nylon type seat burned and all else followed.

Be bloody careful dudes.

No damage done to anyone......this time.

Did I say get a smoke alarm?

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grindz145   100 MW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by grindz145 » Feb 12 2010 9:48am

What BMS did you have implemented? Sorry about your bike.... Glad to hear nobody was hurt! :!:

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Morgan » Feb 12 2010 10:17am

One careful lady owner......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T9DSgEclPA

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 12 2010 10:30am

The initial small fire being unrelated to the batteries?
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Canis Lupus   100 W

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Canis Lupus » Feb 12 2010 11:22am

That trike had a hard life.

Interesting set up though. It was a delta hand powered, with special colouring, "charcoal chrom-alloy". :)

Wouldn't mind a bit of exercise to the upper body with one of those.
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Lock   10 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Lock » Feb 12 2010 11:28am

OP appears to be the owner or principal at The Electric Bicycle Company in Christchurch NZ:
http://theelectricbicycle.co.nz/

Odd he is not more forthcoming w/details about this "event"... perhaps he has fire insurance but not accident insurance
:wink:
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Canis Lupus   100 W

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Canis Lupus » Feb 12 2010 11:39am

Lock wrote:OP appears to be the owner or principal at The Electric Bicycle Company in Christchurch NZ:
http://theelectricbicycle.co.nz/

Odd he is not more forthcoming w/details about this "event"... perhaps he has fire insurance but not accident insurance
:wink:
Lock
Just looked at their "shop". They charge like a wounded bull, but their business seems to be exploding. :D

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by John in CR » Feb 12 2010 2:26pm

It sounds like NZ has a big leg up on the Aussie's regarding ebike laws. Are those regular Cyclone kits or something different? A 12 month anything goes warranty is pretty strong. Of course it looks like they may have jacked prices up enough that big % of claims doesn't matter.

LFP, did you notice their challenge? I'm sure you and recumpence et al, can kick the $#it out of a stock cycle. Free airfare etc to NZ and the loser has to serve your dinner when he eats crow sounds pretty nice. NZ is supposed to be a great place to visit.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by AussieJester » Feb 12 2010 6:08pm

John in CR wrote: NZ is supposed to be a great place to visit.
Nice place to visit, judging by all the Kiwis that we have in Australia, not such a nice place to live..
might just be because we have more sheep here though :mrgreen:

KiM

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by rkosiorek » Feb 12 2010 7:06pm

maybe i missed something. did the frame tubes bend from the heat? or was a collision involved?

in either case it looks like a relatively small incident turned rather nasty before it ran it's course. good to hear that there were no injuries.

after i saw those pictures and showed them to some visting friends we started discussing living wills. for myself i said that 'I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens, just pull the plug.'

They got up, unplugged the computer, and threw out my beer.

They're such asses ...

rick
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Lock   10 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Lock » Feb 12 2010 8:08pm

14hrs now since Lawrence(?) posted his pics... Still hoping to hear some explanation other than insurance fraud... Don't wish to see LiFePO4 mixed up in this...
tks
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Morgan   100 µW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Morgan » Feb 27 2010 4:28am

I apologise for the delay in reply, but we just rode in the Wellington Auckland cycle challenge. I believe it is a first for NZ, possibly the world. We raced in a cycle race with some pretty amazing cyclists riding 6kg carbon frames. Guim ( Spanish guy riding Wisper around the world )rode a Wisper carbon ali frame 250W rear hub drive with 15AH Li-Po onboard. Craig rode a 300W Cyclone on a Giant Suede cruiser bike running PSI old cells. I was tech support with Dean doing the driving. Craig was faster, but Guim had a greater range. It was a real Hare and Tortoise race.

I was really impressed with the cyclists and how well they accepted us, it was a pleasure to watch them ride. I was only jealous to be stuck in a bloody car. I was also really impressed with how well organised Stephen Cox and his entourage staged the ride. They are very sharp. If anyone fancies a couple of weeks in NZ, I could not recommend anything cooler to do than ride this route. It takes in all the beautiful old roads, you have a 'traffic management team' protecting you on the road and 130+ riders (this year) with you. What could be more fun? They created an electric category for us. Next year..........

You can see the videos by googling electric bicycle world tour and hitting the vimeo link.

Anyway, I should say that the fire was caused by a broken connection in a charging plug. Plug overheated and burnt, seat burnt, battery cases burnt, batteries fell on the ground. If you charge batteries without a smoke alarm, you are bloody stupid. That is all I was trying to say. Small things can have a big consequence, and unsupervised electrics can beat fuses and logic and burn anyway.

The other photos of the destroyed wheel and arm are entirely unrelated. I was testing the machine at max speed, hit pothole, broke weld on wheel, glove slipped off right pedal, front wheel crossed 90 and flipped and rolled down the road. This is the last high speed test I do without full pads. I have some good ones now, thanks for asking.

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Morgan » Feb 27 2010 5:18am

By the way I loved the charges like a wounded bull but business is exploding comment. L oh bloody L, I nearly cried. You must surely be a Northerner? You remind me so much of a pal from Paris du Nord. What is a quarter of Eiffel?

To run a business long term, as a reputable business there are a lot of expenses. GST, advertising, freight, comms, warranty, assembly, servicing, import fees, accountant, packing, printing, tooling, product development, testing and then the not insignificant amount of time I spend doing this. The Electric Bicycle Company Limited currently runs at a loss. I don't expect this to change in a hurry. I just want to get people out of their cars. If I was to sell 100 electric bikes in the next 10 years, and the owners were to use the bikes for 10% of their journeys, I take 10 cars off the road.

In reality I will get a lot more than 100 in ten years, the owners will ride them far more than 10% of the time. I will take a lot of cars off the road. We will all be better for it.

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Lock   10 GW

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Re: Be bloody careful out there

Post by Lock » Feb 27 2010 5:43am

Morgan wrote:I just want to get people out of their cars.
That'd be two thumbs way up Morgan. Tks for clarifying things re your fire. Not sure how to address broken plug wires `cept to say that smoke alarms are too after the fact. Success to you
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