Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @370A

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Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @370A

Post by Lyen » Jun 09, 2010 7:41 am

First of all, I have to apologize for not making this program available to everyone since I have an agreement with the programmer not to distribute to freely to the public. The only intend of it is to expand the capabilities to those who purchased the Lyen Edition controllers. The program is not open source nor is it a public domain software.

Additional features:

1. Phase current up to 370 Amps (old version: 160A)
Image
Image

2. Rated current up to 65 Amps (old version: 57A)
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Image

3. More LVC voltage selection (old version missing voltage range 33-40,43-51,57.5-66.5)
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Image

4. Tolerance Voltage up to 8V (old version: 4V)
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Image

5. More controller boards selections (up to 36 FET)
6. Halt Voltage is now call low voltage
7. Speed Mode 0 = button mode, 1 = switch mode (old version: 0 = switch mode, 1 = cycle mode)
8. Bar Protect is now called Drive Saving

Known bugs:
Spelling for Drive Saving selection 1: Have is incorrect
Spelling for Slip Charge Mode 0: Ture should spell as True
P3 Indicater selection 1 cannot display the last letter of the word

All the owners with the Lyen Edition controllers please PM me with you email address if interested. Thanks!

Regards,
Lyen
Last edited by Lyen on Jun 09, 2010 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Jeremy Harris » Jun 09, 2010 7:53 am

As this seems to be a commercial for your products, rather than something to be shared by all forum users, shouldn't it really be down in the "for sale" section?

My view is that the primary purpose of this forum is the free sharing of knowledge and experience, which sort of implies that most of us have an "open source" outlook on what is posted here. Your programmer screenshots look nice, but as they are a commercial offering that's only available to your customers they look very much like an advert to me.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Ariane » Jun 09, 2010 7:55 am

Hi Lyen,

I have beefy up the trace on my Lyen edition 18 Mosfet 4310 actually I use about the same version of this program shown in this post. My current setting is 80 Amps rated current and my phase current is 200 amps.

The controller is working well with this setting but is get warm (not too much just barely warm) if I'm running it at WOT. I have try 100 amps current setting and 250 phase current but the controller is getting really hot with theses settings but torque and acceleration was awesome.


Good day!
Black Arrow

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Lyen » Jun 09, 2010 8:28 am

Jeremy Harris wrote:As this seems to be a commercial for your products, rather than something to be shared by all forum users, shouldn't it really be down in the "for sale" section?

My view is that the primary purpose of this forum is the free sharing of knowledge and experience, which sort of implies that most of us have an "open source" outlook on what is posted here. Your programmer screenshots look nice, but as they are a commercial offering that's only available to your customers they look very much like an advert to me.

Jeremy
Hi Jeremy!

I apologize and knew I will made a lot of people upset. I was debating on whether to place it under the "for sale" section too. But since they will be a lot of on-going discussions and debuging so I have decided to put the topic here with technical related questions. Also, the thread in the for sale section can only last 60 days. I'm partially like a rubber band being pulled by the programmer on one side while trying to help the others. It is kind of like trying to teach people how to use Windows 7 and discover known bugs without sharing the link to download it. :|

Sincerely,
Lyen
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Jeremy Harris » Jun 09, 2010 10:05 am

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, and acknowledge that for those who don't want to just buy a XieChang controller direct from Keywin and do the mods themselves buying an already modified controller from you is a good option.

From my perspective though, like a lot of others on here I'm perfectly happy to mod the controller hardware and reprogramme controllers myself, so I buy XieChang boards direct from Keywin and do my own mods. My weakness is the software, as I wouldn't know where to start in modifying Keywin's code. Seeing some temptingly modified software that isn't going to be made available to me or any of the many other XieChang controller users on here is a bit irritating and seems to be contrary to the ethos of this forum.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by RWP » Jun 09, 2010 10:31 am

Lyen,
What would it take to make this available?
This is a very generous community. I would guess that something could be worked out to make this win-win.

Roy

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by amberwolf » Jun 10, 2010 3:41 am

I would be interested in experimenting with this (PM on the way).

FWIW, I would expect that at some point, this software would become publicly available, once the programmer has moved on to other things or has gone to yet newer versions, perhaps?

BTW, I would venture that this is just a little bit like at least one version of the F/G BMS thread, where I recently saw a post stating that not all of it would be open-source for various reasons I don't recall, or like Method's LTC-based BMS that isn't publicly available in the form shown, etc.

Personally I don't see a problem with it if it eventually leads to better ebike stuff for all, one way or another. ;) It just takes longer this way.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by amberwolf » Jun 10, 2010 4:50 am

Ok, a few questions. These might already be answered in the various discussions about the Keywin Parameter Designer as it seems very similar, but I'd like to ask here in the interests of improving the "instant grokability" of the program to a relative n00b (one that knows enough about what not to set parameters to, but might not know what some of these parameter names refer to).

Some are obvious, such as Sensor Degree, but could be better named Sensor Angle or Phase Angle, as that is how it is usually referred to when discussing that sort of thing.

Phase Current is obvious; current per phase winding of the motor.

Rated Current is less obvious; one can guess that it must mean Battery Current Limit, but it is not a certainty.

Low Voltage is obvious, but LVC is a very common term used for this, and might be even better to use here.

Toler Voltage I do not know what it means. I don't even have but one guess, and that is a hysteresis voltage between operating and LVC. Meaning, how far does it have to rise up again after LVC has been reached before it will allow "recovery" and respond to throttle again. But that is a guess based on little real information, and probably wrong.

Highest Voltage seems obvious, but I am not sure of it's purpose. Normally an HVC would be for battery charging cutoff, and the controller has nothing to do with that unless it refers to a regen setup. Even if it did, it would seem to need a much wider range of voltages, and much finder gradation. So I do not really know what this one means. If it is indeed an HVC, perhaps a different name would be helpful, that better describes what it really is

Block time I have read of but do not yet know what it does/means. The name might be fine, and just need better explanation in a "help" file.

Auto Curising Time(s) I suppose is really "Auto Cruising Time(s)". I guess that this means how long do you have to hold the throttle in one position before it automatically takes over holding it for you?

Slip Charge Mode I do not have a guess for.

EBS Level I guess would be how much regeneration does it do when using ebrakes, and thus how much force is generated? But nothing explains what 0, 1, and 2 mean.

Limit Speed.....I guess this is in Km/h, rather than Mph, otherwise not being able to limit to 20MPH (or less for some areas) seems odd.

3 Speed Mode doesnt' explain even a little what difference in the modes really is, or what it does. I can guess that it means a switch actually mechanically switches between one of three positions, or a button simply toggles thru which mode it's in, each time it is pressed.

Speed 1, 2 and 3 are almost obvious, but I can't tell if they mean percent of max speed, or a total in Km/h or Mph.

Indicate mode doesn't ring any bells, so I don't know how to implement that.

Converse Speed has me baffled.

Same for Guard Level, Drie Saving, 1_1 Choice, and P3 Indidates.

Speed

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 10, 2010 5:14 am

Software is either open-source, or it can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. :twisted:
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Miles » Jun 10, 2010 5:30 am

liveforphysics wrote:Software is either open-source, or it can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. :twisted:
Who pays your wages? :mrgreen: :lol:

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 10, 2010 5:39 am

Miles wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:Software is either open-source, or it can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. :twisted:
Who pays your wages? :mrgreen: :lol:
You got me there... for now... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Hyena » Jun 10, 2010 6:23 am

+1 on what amberwolf said. Although I did know what everything did having not programmed one for a while I've kinda forgotten a few of the parameters now and it'd be nice for them to be relabelled in plain english.
Things like "only fake indicate" should be selectable to on or off IMO.
as for slip charge mode, that means automatic regen when you back off the throttle doesn't it ? I may be wrong, it's one of the things I can't remember.
EBS level is regen right ?
Again clear labels would make it more user friendly, eg
Rename slip charge mode to
EBS level to ' Regen braking strength' etc

Any other features you can have implemented Lyen ?
Something I'd like to see is to have the current selectable with the speed mode switches - so you can select 50% speed and also enter a value of say 20 amps for the current. I know it kind of does this in a round about way anyway with the speed modes, but to have it absolute so it'd can't overshoot on hard acceleration or hills.

Also I don't have a problem with Lyen posting this here, as he said it'll disappear from the FS forum and really it is relevant and beneficial to alot of people.
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Jeremy Harris » Jun 10, 2010 7:30 am

liveforphysics wrote:Software is either open-source, or it can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. :twisted:

I'm with you on that, Luke, as least as far as this stuff goes.

The ethics of this particular case are interesting, in that the programme illustrated here is very obviously a hacked version of the Keywin Parameter Designer. As Keywin has made the PArameter Designer free to anyone, then I wonder quite how the whole intellectual property thing quite stacks up here. Does a hacker have a moral right to own the IP on their hacked copy of someone else's code?

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Ariane » Jun 10, 2010 7:53 am

Hi Guys,

The Lyen edition of this software has maximum rated current of 65 amps, I use the version from CHXS and this version is rated for 100 amps (rated current) and is perfect for my needs, I have no gain to use the Lyen version (sorry Lyen just a fact).

Good day!
Black Arrow
Last edited by Ariane on Jun 11, 2010 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by John in CR » Jun 10, 2010 11:13 am

I'm curious about the guys voicing strong support of open source, does that viewpoint apply to all IP or is the design or methodology related to a physical item different, and you take no issue with those not being shared with the world? I personally feel everything should be open source, because it will lead to accelerated advancements in this world. I understand that the difficult issue becomes how to reward developers if they don't participate in production, but maybe something as simple as flat royalty percentage(s) that includes participants in open source type efforts could work better than the current system. I favor the free sharing of all ideas, and anything that stifles development is bad.

I don't have any problem with someone keeping their own ideas under wraps when they plan to pursue production, I just disagree with the approach because it slows advancement. In this particular case maybe a good middle ground can be reached where everyone here is happy, eg the software is free, but just to ES members who have to go thru Lyen to get the password.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by wasp » Jun 10, 2010 12:21 pm

BlackArrow wrote:Hi Guys,

The Lyen edition of this software has maximum rated current of 65 amps, I use the version from CHX and this version is rated for 100 amps (rated current) and is perfect for my needs, I have no gain to use the Lyen version (sorry Lyen just a fact).

Good day!
Black Arrow
really i've been running at 75amps for a month now...and i could go higher
as for people wanting the software for free...the price of admission is lyen's smallest controller
call gm or apple or microsoft and tell them you want thier program's for free? see were it gets you
there is parameter designer software already posted for free so stop crying
did keywin come up with this software? or is he the "hacker"?

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Mike1 » Jun 10, 2010 1:09 pm

Those members who simply want to increase the current limit above the levels available in their existing software don't actually need this new version. Simply program your board with a lower board type setting, this will increase the current limit, e.g changing the setting from EB218 to EB212 will approximately double the limits.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Ariane » Jun 10, 2010 1:10 pm

Wasp,

From the start I'm talking about the "rated current" I'm not talking about the "phase current setting" if you use the Keywin e-bike lab parameter design to program "your" Lyen controller with no mods on your shunt, the maximum value allowed with this program is 57 amps.

The Lyen version of this program in this post as maximum setting of 65 amps, the version I used from CHXS is 100 amps (rate current) and 370 amps (phase current).

Methods use a little shunt value on is 100 Volt 100 amps 18 fets controller than 57 amps with this program is more than enough the explanation is here :

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... it=methods

Good day!
Black Arrow
Last edited by Ariane on Jun 11, 2010 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by will_newton » Jun 10, 2010 2:22 pm

I appreciate the work Lyen. You are well within your rights to do as you like. If folks have a beef, they need to take it up with Keywin, not Lyen.

Keywin's software is the one with no manual, Keywin's is the one with bad translations, Keywin's is the one with missing voltage values. Meanwhile Keywin provides little support to some of the people that are showing him how to make his products better by even providing a manual of what the basic functions are.

After posting my manual, I have had PM's from several folks saying they are working on rewrites of the PD software. Where the hell are you people? Half of you are evil genius engineers and none of you can do better than this software?!?!?! Why in the hell have I had to make up the half-assed manual in the Tech. Ref. forum just trying to figure out WTF any of this stuff means. For God's sake, I am a freaking idiot that can work the search function, I don't know crap about programming this stuff. I haven't even gotten my controller installed in a bike, yet I assembled a manual that lots of folks are referring to! Imagine if you knew what you were doing! :D

Lyen, if you want to impress me, write us a manual for your software or help provide info about the functions of various fields. I don't think explaining the functions of your software compromises it. You can be a hero by helping other Keywin PD users at the same time as your own customers and build up some very good feelings on E-S by being a source of REAL information about the Parameter designer Software. I already want to buy one of your controllers just to get access to the software's missing voltage cutoff values.
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by number1cruncher » Jun 10, 2010 3:34 pm

I think anyone can just use hex edit and manipulate the field values themselves. For instance you can increase the speed values >120%.

Lyen is a good guy. He helps lots of people around here. I don't see anything morally wrong with what he is doing. However, I do agree that by keeping it closed source, he is missing out on a lot of valuable input.

Whatever, I've had his software for two months and haven't even opened it. I guess its not too important...
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Hyena » Jun 10, 2010 7:37 pm

I think you guys who are saying Lyen has stolen this from Keywin are unaware of their relationship...

Lyens controllers aren't totally revolutionary and unique, they're basically ecrazyman controllers with upgrades where it counts. Not that keywins controllers ever had terrible QC or components, and I say this of electronics in general, but how many times have people said "I wish I could pay a little extra and have it made with better components" This is what Lyens controllers are and he's modifying the existing software to suit.
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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by mdd0127 » Jun 10, 2010 10:46 pm

BlackArrow wrote:Hi Guys,

The Lyen edition of this software has maximum rated current of 65 amps, I use the version from CHX and this version is rated for 100 amps (rated current) and is perfect for my needs, I have no gain to use the Lyen version (sorry Lyen just a fact).

Good day!
Black Arrow

Sorry if this is a dumb one but who is CHX?
Turn it OFF!!!

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Ariane » Jun 11, 2010 9:23 am

mdd0127 wrote:
BlackArrow wrote:Hi Guys,

The Lyen edition of this software has maximum rated current of 65 amps, I use the version from CHX and this version is rated for 100 amps (rated current) and is perfect for my needs, I have no gain to use the Lyen version (sorry Lyen just a fact).

Good day!
Black Arrow

Sorry if this is a dumb one but who is CHX?
I'm sorry for the confusion is my misktake is CHXS correction done.

Good day!
Black Arrrow

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by amberwolf » Jun 15, 2010 4:06 pm

Tom_D in another thread asked a very good question:
:arrow: Can you just change and flash one parameter value, or do you have to populate them all ? I don't want to upset the rest of defaults values.

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Re: Beta Testers Wanted On Updated Lyen Controller Program @

Post by Hyena » Jun 15, 2010 6:44 pm

I doubt it, I'd say the software completely reflashes the settings and if you were to leave some fields blank (assuming the software allows it) it won't work.
Doesn't paramater designer come with a default ASV file ? Just mod the desired parameters and leave the rest.
Failing that, I'm sure Lyen or Keywin could supply you with the asv file they flash these controllers with if you bugger it up.
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