Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't care

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Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't care

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 10 2010 6:28am

This has some potential. It's a new FET just relased last month, and it's pretty damn exciting.

This FET applied in an RC controller type design could actually cool itself. lol :)


Big advantages:

It doesn't try to cool through a PCB! Cooling through a PCB = fail-boat.

It's not pacakge limited (like many SMT junk parts), yet it's cooling side is opposite it's connection side, so you can cool it!

The cooling tab is isolated for 2,500v. This means, no dicking around with kapton and silicon pads etc etc.

Combined Rth of 0.33C/W in an all ready isolated package!!!!!!! WOW!

Even at 175degC junction temp, it's only 1.9mOhm RdsOn!! WOW! 0.9mOhm RdsOn cold (as if the cold RdsOn ever matters)

1600amp pulse, 500amp intrensic diode with 150ns Trr (meaning it should tollerate freewheeling currents pretty well).

350amp current rating with a 100C case temp, (500amp 25c curent rating, a useless spec to look good on a datasheet)

Roughly 1"x1" foot print means it's possible to make a 300-phase amp rated controller (~100 battery amps) not much bigger than a pack of smokes (caps would be the biggest part aside from heatsink). Or, do a 12-18fet version for a serious controller. :)

Pd rated at 820watts (cute that they put numbers like this on the datasheet, but entirely impractical, still though, it has a decent cooling area.)

Datasheet:

http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/DS10026 ... 075T2).pdf
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by rhitee05 » Jul 10 2010 9:07am

That's a nice piece of silicon. :-)

Shame you can't seem to buy it anywhere yet! :-(

I like it. Leaded package is easy to work with, lots of leads = low inductance and resistance, easy to cool. Probably expensive, but since you could probably replace 4x 4110s it could be worth it.
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 10 2010 9:19am

rhitee05 wrote:That's a nice piece of silicon. :-)

Shame you can't seem to buy it anywhere yet! :-(

I like it. Leaded package is easy to work with, lots of leads = low inductance and resistance, easy to cool. Probably expensive, but since you could probably replace 4x 4110s it could be worth it.

Totally agreed.

I have not seen any other 75v fet with this level and quantity of excellent and useful practical advantages. Many FETs/packages seem to have 1 or 2 aspects that are fantastic, but suck in other important ways. This guy seems to a pretty big list of things that fit into my "fantastic" category.

If somebody made an RC motor controller based around 6 of these FETs, it would be leaps ahead of any other RC controller on the market.
If somebody made an e-bike controller around 12 of these FETs... it would be the most powerful ebike ever built (as far as I know), and it could be tiny, and under normal ebike loads of a few KW, it wouldn't even be able to heat itself up. lol


I'm going to be making a fairly big order of IXYS parts today through my Future Electronics rep/clown, and I'm going to do my best to request 6 of this bad boy, or at least try to get pricing and availability. Normally they make me buy in 50piece minimums though, and I bet this is a $10-$15 fet. :(
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by johnrobholmes » Jul 10 2010 9:27am

Heyyya, thats a nice looking bit of chip! In a few more generations it will be even better too!

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by 12p3phPMDC » Jul 10 2010 9:30am

Gotta love the DCB packages! Great find, I think that this part is going to be a winner and
probably alot cheaper than the SOT227b. Solder a 1"x1" heat sink on each fet and you'll be golden!!
Last edited by 12p3phPMDC on Jul 10 2010 2:05pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 10 2010 9:37am

12p3phPMDC wrote:Gotta love the DCB packages! Great find, I think that this part is going to be a winner and
probably alot cheaper than the SOT227b. Solder a 1"x1" heat sink on each on and you'll be golden!!
Being as the cooling tab is isolated, you can stick them all on the same sink even. :) :) :)

I makes me really happy to see Mfg's making some packages that make sense for modern power electronics. Knowing IXYS, the 85v, 100v, and 150v versions will follow in the next few months. :)
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by John in CR » Jul 10 2010 9:58am

liveforphysics wrote:
12p3phPMDC wrote:Gotta love the DCB packages! Great find, I think that this part is going to be a winner and
probably alot cheaper than the SOT227b. Solder a 1"x1" heat sink on each on and you'll be golden!!
Being as the cooling tab is isolated, you can stick them all on the same sink even. :) :) :)

I makes me really happy to see Mfg's making some packages that make sense for modern power electronics. Knowing IXYS, the 85v, 100v, and 150v versions will follow in the next few months. :)
Put me down for 24 of the 150V variety when they come out. Then I would definitely have a 100mph+ 2wd screamer. I'm still going to try to get some runs out of my Lyen high voltage controllers at conservative settings with 2 of my big motors before their permanent home driving very high turn count motors that I have. I figure someone has to post a good number this summer, so why not give it a shot?

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 10 2010 10:11am

First, lets make sure they aren't like $25-40 each... IXYS has been known to do pricing like that for fets in the past, I'm betting/hoping this guy will only be around $10-15 though.
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by rhitee05 » Jul 10 2010 10:56am

It'd be great if they were cheaper, but $10/ea seems totally reasonable. That's about how much 4x 4110's would cost you and be roughly equivalent. $15/ea might even be worth it for the heatsinking advantages. With really good cooling, 300A+ per FET should be doable.

This would be an excellent part for someone who wanted to make a really ridiculous water-cooled controller. It appears that heat would really be the limit, not lead melting unlike other packages.
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by 12p3phPMDC » Jul 10 2010 12:44pm

liveforphysics wrote:
12p3phPMDC wrote:Gotta love the DCB packages! Great find, I think that this part is going to be a winner and
probably alot cheaper than the SOT227b. Solder a 1"x1" heat sink on each on and you'll be golden!!
Being as the cooling tab is isolated, you can stick them all on the same sink even. :) :) :)

I makes me really happy to see Mfg's making some packages that make sense for modern power electronics. Knowing IXYS, the 85v, 100v, and 150v versions will follow in the next few months. :)
Yea, like that slug of copper heat sink in my SOT227 thread...

Image

The SOT227 is still easier to tie into a busbar...

IXYS is definitely a forerunner in the FET arena.. :mrgreen:
Last edited by 12p3phPMDC on Jul 10 2010 4:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by bigmoose » Jul 10 2010 4:52pm

Luke, GREAT find, I love the package and the specs... except for the 5v max Vgs... it's a blasted logic level FET... I prefer the ol' fashioned ones with Vgs of 20 volts...
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by hydro-one » Jul 10 2010 4:59pm

GREAT NEWS!!!!

This would be so cool, the fets could be mounted inside the tubes of the bike. The controller would not be visible anymore (except on IR)

Pack of smokes controller coming up!!!
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 10 2010 6:58pm

bigmoose wrote:Luke, GREAT find, I love the package and the specs... except for the 5v max Vgs... it's a blasted logic level FET... I prefer the ol' fashioned ones with Vgs of 20 volts...

Thanks, it sure seems like a pretty good chip. :) My IXYS guy from Future Electronics said no such part# was in his ordering search form, and he has seen no lit or anything on the product... Evidently, since it's less than a month old, they haven't added them to the system yet.

The logic level gate short coming can be decently worked around with the use isolated DC/DC supplies for the gate drivers rather than boot-strapping through right? Still though, at these current levels, you're going to get some serious ground plane stability and resultant gate bounce, and a logic level gate doesn't give you jack-squat of a safe window to play in for bouncing. I also wish they had higher gate voltage needs, but it seems like everything these days is moving towards the low voltage gate. It's great for non-power electronics, and kinda a big hazard for something like a motor controller application.
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by rhitee05 » Jul 10 2010 7:29pm

I think you guys are misreading the datasheet. The max Vgs is +- 20V as we're used to. Perhaps you're confusing the threshold voltage Vth, which has a max of 5V.
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 10 2010 7:46pm

rhitee05 wrote:I think you guys are misreading the datasheet. The max Vgs is +- 20V as we're used to. Perhaps you're confusing the threshold voltage Vth, which has a max of 5V.

Maybe I'm not interpreting it correctly, but doesn't it show the switching plateau occur at a gate voltage of ~5v in figure 9? I could be reading it wrong, but I kinda saw it as it's not damaged by bringing the gate to 20v (like most of the IR logic level stuff as well), but it's saturating the junction by ~5v?
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by John in CR » Jul 10 2010 8:01pm

liveforphysics wrote:Thanks, it sure seems like a pretty good chip. :) My IXYS guy from Future Electronics said no such part# was in his ordering search form, and he has seen no lit or anything on the product... Evidently, since it's less than a month old, they haven't added them to the system yet.
Do they do beta testers for this kind of stuff, or special developers packages? Let's get a few hundred for free!

Can these be used with the boards in our existing controllers? I understand the connection is different, so a custom case would be necessary.

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 10 2010 8:16pm

John in CR wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:Thanks, it sure seems like a pretty good chip. :) My IXYS guy from Future Electronics said no such part# was in his ordering search form, and he has seen no lit or anything on the product... Evidently, since it's less than a month old, they haven't added them to the system yet.
Do they do beta testers for this kind of stuff, or special developers packages? Let's get a few hundred for free!

Can these be used with the boards in our existing controllers? I understand the connection is different, so a custom case would be necessary.
The assumption is that they tested the piss out of thousands of them for a year or so before they write a spec-sheet for them, but I will give it a shot. ;)
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by CamLight » Jul 10 2010 9:32pm

Nice FET!
The theta-js is about the same as their TO-264-cased parts but it's isolated!! Very cool.

I have at least two projects I could use several hundred of these on right now. Unfortunately, I'm guessing we won't see any available this year and when we do, they'll be $75. :cry:

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by grindz145 » Jul 10 2010 10:32pm

bigmoose wrote:Luke, GREAT find, I love the package and the specs... except for the 5v max Vgs... it's a blasted logic level FET... I prefer the ol' fashioned ones with Vgs of 20 volts...
and thats the easy part to get right! No doubt they could make it otherwise. I cant believe this is SOIC!?! wild.

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 11 2010 1:24am

CamLight wrote:Nice FET!
The theta-js is about the same as their TO-264-cased parts but it's isolated!! Very cool.

I have at least two projects I could use several hundred of these on right now. Unfortunately, I'm guessing we won't see any available this year and when we do, they'll be $75. :cry:

Hey, if you're going to order several hundred, you gotta let me piggyback on your order. :)

I highly doubt they will be over $15-20. I think IXYS has been doing a pretty good job lately with keeping prices only about 3x what IR would charge. ;) It's just a shame IR doesn't offer anything that comes close to this... they have some equally good fantastic silicon bits, but they're only sticking them in really dumb packages so far...
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by Doctorbass » Jul 11 2010 2:03am

Ah Great find!

A small light controller using these and these new nanotech 90C lipo will push agan the limit of high performance Ebike and RC !! :twisted:

now we must find some supra conductor Brushless motors!!!

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by CamLight » Jul 11 2010 3:57am

liveforphysics wrote:Hey, if you're going to order several hundred, you gotta let me piggyback on your order. :)

I highly doubt they will be over $15-20. I think IXYS has been doing a pretty good job lately with keeping prices only about 3x what IR would charge. ;) It's just a shame IR doesn't offer anything that comes close to this... they have some equally good fantastic silicon bits, but they're only sticking them in really dumb packages so far...
Sheesh, I'll say. Not even a TO-264!
At least they have some TO-247's though. :roll:

If they're only $20, I'll be getting at least a thousand of them and will be happy to add your order to mine.
If they're as expensive as I think they'll be, I'm just getting 100 or so pieces for a special project.

But, IMHO, all this is for naught as they won't be available for a verrrrry long time from any distributors...if ever. :(

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 11 2010 4:27am

This seems to be the best option IR has:

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datashe ... -7ppbf.pdf

A total fail for an un-coolable package (dispite the Rth claims, which are only there to please a retard spec sheet reader).

If mounted to a PCB with a heatsink on the back of the board, and a heatsink on the back of the chip, you would still have a worthless part with this high current FET from IR.

They make some mean TO-247plus package stuff that works well, but this IXYS package setup is a giant leap ahead of anything else I've seen.

Lets hope you're guess is wrong about it being cost-prohibitive or not being for sale anytime soon!
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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by CamLight » Jul 11 2010 4:40am

liveforphysics wrote:Lets hope you're guess is wrong about it being cost-prohibitive or not being for sale anytime soon!
Amen to that! :D

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Re: Awesome new FET package :) :) :) Not a geek? you won't

Post by Hyena » Jul 11 2010 6:55am

hydro-one wrote:This would be so cool, the fets could be mounted inside the tubes of the bike. The controller would not be visible anymore
Thats what I was thinking too. My next build will be a custom frame with 18S lipo housed inside the top and down tubes. If I could squeeze a 6 fet controller in there too with a few of these bad boys using the whole frame as a heat sink I'd be laughing.

Like Doctorbass said, this along with battery progress like the 90C lipos is a great leap forward for future EVs :)
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