Cyclone (Oro) Throttle with Cycle Analyst

marose1

100 µW
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
8
I have the standard 500 watt Cyclone Kit, with Oro Throttle Assembly and Motor with internal controller. I recently bought the Cycle Analyst Version 2.2 Standalone Model (CA-SA) and have wired it with the external shunt and speedometer pickup to display all of the various information.

Now I want to wire the CA in accordance with Section 9.3 of the Manual (available at http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml) to directly regulate the current ("current throttle"). I read somewhere that the Cyclone Throttle is a "Hall" type throttle (as opposed to potentiometer type), and whether or not this is correct, I want to know if the Cyclone Oro throttle will work properly to regulate current when wired to the CA in accordance with Section 9.3 of the Manual.

Also, there are six wires inside the sheathed cable coming from the Cyclone throttle (gray, red, green, white, yellow ans black). According to information that I have found here: http://www.ypedal.com/cyclone2.htm, the yellow wire is the speed signal/adjustment wire from the throttle, which is the correct wire for input from throttle to post "Vi" of the CA and output from post "Th" of the CA to the controller. Can anybody verify this?
 
All correct (yellow wire and all) and works for me. The only thing you got wrong is the link to the following page, which also saved my day: http://www.ypedal.com/Cyclone2.htm (notice capital C :) )

Now regarding the Hall/potentiometer issue. Combining the information from sections 8.18 and 9.2 in the manual, one can learn that the CA is actually designed to work with most ebike Hall effect throttles, and in order to work with a potentiometer one would need to employ an extra resistor. Thus, I assume the ORO throttle is good to go without modification. Can anybody verify this?

Like I said elsewhere on the board, a word of caution: do not forget to set the Aux Voltage Function (Sec. 8.17 in the manual) before you hook everything up, or else the bike will start going full throttle as soon as the CA starts up. If it does happen to you (like it did to me), grab the bike and lift the motorized wheel in the air so you may more calmly set the Aux Voltage Function.

With Luck!
 
Thanks for the info/reply! I finished the wiring today and when the on/off switch on the Cyclone (Oro) throttle assembly is in the "on" position the throttle works as expected. In the CA-SA, I now have the speed limit set at "20 mph", the max current set at "20 amps", and, under advanced settings, the Aux Voltage Function is set to "Amps Limit". Under these conditions, the max amps drawn is 20 under heavy load (previously 31 amps w/o current limit) and the motor completely cuts out when the speed is at or above 22 mph.

There is one minor problem -- the motor "chatters" slightly when the on/off switch on the throttle assembly is in "off" position (regardless of throttle position). I don't know what is causing this problem -- but I am now disconnecting the Anderson Connector from the battery at all times to power down the system.

I would appreciate any suggestions on how to remedy the motor "chatter" problem during times when the on/off switch on the throttle assembly is in the "off" Position. It is noted that I did not have this problem prior to wiring my CA-SA for Current Throttle per Section 9.3 of the User Manual, and it is also noted that the CA is not powered down by the on/off switch on the throttle assembly.
 
My Luna Cycle Cyclone came with an Oro throttle (half twist), and as soon as I plug it into a Cycle Analyst V3, the CA's display goes blank and lights up bright green. Could someone teach me how to use this throttle with a CA V3? I've included a photo of the throttle's connectors. I'm assuming the two-pin connector is for measuring the battery voltage and to turn the controller on. I'm guessing the thing in the black heat-shrink is a voltage reducer to enable the voltage indicator on the throttle to read correctly. I thought I'd ask before rearranging the pins in the 3-pin connector.

Is there anything I need to change in the CA's menu for the Oro throttle to work?

Also, to connect the Th out of the CA3 to the Cyclone's controller's throttle input, do I just use 2 pins of the throttle input connector on the controller (one to the battery's ground and the other to the CA3's Th out connector)? Why does the throttle have 3 wires but only 2 are used?

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Hey robocam,
I would find the throttle signal cable first with a multimeter. I don't remember exactly which one it is when I did this work on my eBike while testing the throttle but if you look at the controller itself its the green wire; so based on that and looking at your picture the throttle hall signal should be the bright yellow on the three prong connector.

G.
 
Thanks G. Upon closer inspection, I found out the throttle and CA input pin functions didn't match, so a simple swap of pin locations fixed the problem. I wish they'd standardize.

I have a new problem now. When the switch on the throttle is in the "on" position, the CA's voltage reads high. When it's in the "off" position, the voltage reading matches what my multimeter says. I've attached photos. Something in the Oro throttle is messing with the CA's voltage readout while not affecting my multimeter's readout. I may remove whatever's under that shrink-wrap to see if it fixes it. I don't need the Oro battery meter anyway.

Also, when I turn the switch off, the red LED on the ORO throttle blinks, normally used to indicate a dead battery. Before it was hooked to the CA, the LEDs on the throttle would just turn off when the switch was in the "off" position. I may have to move some wires around so that the power switch does what it's supposed to do.

Here's a schematic of an Oro throttle. I wonder if it's the same. I assume the +24 would be whatever your battery voltage would be.

http://www.ypedal.com/bikeE-cyclone-throttle.JPG

One more anomaly. Before I connected the Oro throttle to the CA, the display would read a negative current when the motor was not running. With the throttle connected and turned on, the display would read a positive current. I may have to look into the regen options in the manual. The wattage is positive when the motor is running, so the shunt isn't hooked up backwards.

Oh, and for some reason, the display lights up brighter when the throttle is connected and switched on (you can see it in the pics).
 

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Okay, before starting: *Make sure drive chain is OFF the bike*, so the motor can't move the ebike if something goes hi-wire... trust me... it could happen.

With that said, one reason why you could be seeing the negative current is due to the power coming from the Positive lead of the controller feeding into the CA; that also would explain why the light is brighter too, the internal regulator is being helped by the external stuff...

The +24 is the ignition cable, is whatever voltage your main pack has. This is what is toggled via the switch; the +5 is for powering the electronics and the hall sensor. Cyclone controller will not send any voltage when the ignition is turned off so the throttle cannot be used if the ignition is off.

I am going by CA 2.4 here, so stop me at any moment if what I say doesn't apply: So, first there are two ways you can connect the throttle to the CA unit.

Way #1 is the CA works as a limiter. For this mode you only need to plug ONE cable to the lead that comes out of the external shunt, no other cables are needed. If you've noticed the shunt has a black cable terminated with heatshrink tubing, this one has a white, a green and a black IIRC. The green is the thorttle signal cable from CA, and that one is soldered to the input from the ORO throttle with a 2-10k resistor, depending on voltage here. I used a 4k resistor for mine on the Cyclone digital display throttle, and a diode. Then it connects to the throttle input of the controller. This is all you need to get it working, no need to open the CA to solder anything doing it this way. Double check the manual to see if the resistor goes before or after, I am speaking from memory here.

Way #2 is the CA works as an on-demand regulator. This way you run the ORO throttle signal to the CA unit, and solder the signal to the POT on the board. Then the green cable at the shunt goes to the controller. So when user applies throttle it tells CA to give it more amps up to whatever max you've specified; so if you set MAX AMPS to be 40, full throttle will be 40 amps, and zero throttle will be no amps, and 50% throttle will be 20 amps. This worked much better than the Way #1 in my testing, but I could never got it to do full throttle even setting the limit to 99 amps... it worked, but not what I wanted.

Which way are you connecting it to the CA?

G.
 
Hi G,

With the CA3, you connect the throttle to the CA itself, so that's how I have mine hooked up. I think I found out why the voltage reading is off on the CA when I turn the Oro throttle on. If you look at the photo, you'll see the red wire (5V input to the throttle) going to the 2-pin connector paralleled with the green wire. The white wire connects to the battery + (52V in my case). The rocker switch on the Oro throttle connects to the green and white wires. Basically, when you flip the switch to the "on" position, it sends the full battery voltage to the Cyclone controller via the green wire to turn it on, and since it's paralleled with the throttle's red 5V input line, it turns the throttle on as well. Under the black shrink wrap is a 2180 ohm resistor wired in series with only the red wire. I assume that was someone's solution to bring the voltage down so that the battery can power the throttle instead of a regulated 5V power source. Whatever it's brought down to, it's certainly not 5V. That is probably why the CA's voltage reading is messed with when the throttle is turned on.

So what I've done is, I cut the red wire from the 2-pin plug and put it in the proper 5V location of the 3-pin throttle connector (and I left out the resistor). Now it doesn't mess with the CA's voltage reading anymore. I'm not sure why the gray wire is in the throttle's 3-pin plug. I don't see how it works there. Right now, I only have 5V, ground, and the yellow throttle wires going to the 3-pin throttle connector, and it works perfectly but only when there is power at the gray wire, which leads me to my new problem.

Since the gray wire has to have power in order for the throttle to work, I need to find a way to bring the battery voltage down to 24V or whatever the throttle wants to see. If I connect the gray wire to the red 5V line, the throttle will work, but the red battery indicator LED will flash (normally used to indicate a dead battery). I was going to try testing resistors in series with the gray wire. Is there a better way to do this?

Here's the Oro throttle's schematic again for reference.

http://www.ypedal.com/bikeE-cyclone-throttle.JPG
 

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Yeah, no such a thing as a nifty throttle plug on CA2.4, you have to build this contraption with a resistor and diode to get it to work... Yeah, for some reason the ORO throttle does things somewhat different than the Cyclone digital numeric display throttle.

Did you got it to work?

G.
 
So, if you look at the controller cables you have the RED ignition cable that is the IGNITION connector (not THROTTLE connector which is red, dark green black), again we are looking at the controller here, not the throttle. So if you jump the ignition so its always on (use a switch somewhere else, or just leave it jumped), then you can use the RED from the THROTTLE connector which is +5 V regulated when the ignition is ON. That will power the throttle but won't give you the voltage light color readout.

The ORO throttle has two parts to it:

The light bar on the throttle can be hooked up directly to the battery and that part of the circuit goes through the switch (as opposed to the hall, the other part, which its power comes directly from the +5 from the controller when ignition is ON), The ORO is supposed to be a 48V throttle so you don't need +24V for it to work, albeit you won't see much change if you use a 52V LiFePo pack... you might always see it green and only turn yellow when its almost done... not sure as I have LiPos, not LiFePo...

My ORO throttle didn't come with any resistor; so I have no idea why yours does have one... hmmm...

G.
 
Since I have it plugged into the CA, it provides the 5V, so I don't need to jump the ignition. But for some reason, the throttle won't work until there is voltage at the gray wire. I'm going to disconnect the throttle's red wire and only send 5V to the gray wire to see what happens.

gman1971 said:
So, if you look at the controller cables you have the RED ignition cable that is the IGNITION connector (not THROTTLE connector which is red, dark green black), again we are looking at the controller here, not the throttle. So if you jump the ignition so its always on (use a switch somewhere else, or just leave it jumped), then you can use the RED from the THROTTLE connector which is +5 V regulated when the ignition is ON. That will power the throttle but won't give you the voltage light color readout.

The ORO throttle has two parts to it:

The light bar on the throttle can be hooked up directly to the battery and that part of the circuit goes through the switch (as opposed to the hall, the other part, which its power comes directly from the +5 from the controller when ignition is ON), The ORO is supposed to be a 48V throttle so you don't need +24V for it to work, albeit you won't see much change if you use a 52V LiFePo pack... you might always see it green and only turn yellow when its almost done... not sure as I have LiPos, not LiFePo...

My ORO throttle didn't come with any resistor; so I have no idea why yours does have one... hmmm...

G.
 
Hey Robocam, how is it working for you? Any updates on this?

G.
 
Hi Gman!

The throttle is working great! I'll have to see how it behaves when the battery is fully charged/depleted.

I've discovered that the gray wire is the 5V input for the throttle (not red as in the diagram). If I send 5V to the throttle through this wire, it turns on the LED battery gauge as well. The red wire senses the battery voltage for the battery gauge. I experimented with different resistor values and settled on 4229 ohms (3900 and 330 ohm resistors in series). My battery was at 40%, and it made the yellow LED light up on the throttle. But the most important thing is that this got rid of the problem where the CA would display a higher voltage than actual. Also, now the red low-battery LED doesn't blink. The blinking caused the green backlight of the CA to vary in brightness with the flashing, which was annoying.

gman1971 said:
Hey Robocam, how is it working for you? Any updates on this?

G.
 

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Sweet, that is awesome, so the CA3 is much better looks like the CA2.4 then .. man, I hate you now, you see... now I am going to have to buy a CA3... dang it... this suxs... any donations? :)

G.
 
Haha, what do you mean? All I did was get the Oro throttle to work with it =)

gman1971 said:
Sweet, that is awesome, so the CA3 is much better looks like the CA2.4 then .. man, I hate you now, you see... now I am going to have to buy a CA3... dang it... this suxs... any donations? :)

G.
 
robocam said:
Haha, what do you mean? All I did was get the Oro throttle to work with it =)

gman1971 said:
Sweet, that is awesome, so the CA3 is much better looks like the CA2.4 then .. man, I hate you now, you see... now I am going to have to buy a CA3... dang it... this suxs... any donations? :)

G.

Well, means that CA2 was a nightmare to get hooked up to the throttle, but CA3 seems like it just plugs right in... so that's good for starters... the CA2 you had to do this fancy resistor and diode setup and adjust a lot of things on the CA unit itself... not easy... :)

G.
 
Hi all
I'm trying to sort out a cyclone mid drive ( headline motor with internal controller) that isn't working with a new battery. It has an oro throttle that seems to be giving an error code. When first turned on it displays a green led for full voltage (24v system) and with a twist of the throttle There is no motor action, and a rapid red blinking led on the throttle ( faster than the flat battery flash).
Can't find anything on the net nor here on ES
Anyone know what it might be. I haven't really started testing it yet.
Cheers
K
 
Did you try contacting cyclone about it?

kdog said:
Hi all
I'm trying to sort out a cyclone mid drive ( headline motor with internal controller) that isn't working with a new battery. It has an oro throttle that seems to be giving an error code. When first turned on it displays a green led for full voltage (24v system) and with a twist of the throttle There is no motor action, and a rapid red blinking led on the throttle ( faster than the flat battery flash).
Can't find anything on the net nor here on ES
Anyone know what it might be. I haven't really started testing it yet.
Cheers
K
 
Kdog, sounds to me like your battery bms amps is not up to the task of a cyclone motor. I have the same motor and I use at least a 50amp bms in my batteries.
 
kdog said:
Hi all
I'm trying to sort out a cyclone mid drive ( headline motor with internal controller) that isn't working with a new battery. It has an oro throttle that seems to be giving an error code. When first turned on it displays a green led for full voltage (24v system) and with a twist of the throttle There is no motor action, and a rapid red blinking led on the throttle ( faster than the flat battery flash).
Can't find anything on the net nor here on ES
Anyone know what it might be. I haven't really started testing it yet.
Cheers
K

Hi kdog - I am brand new to this forum (joined to be able to talk to you on this thread) as there seems to be zero info out there on the Oro/Cyclone twist throttle (see link below) and would really appreciate your help. I am running a DiBlasi R34 electrified trike (see link below) for my wife (mobility issues) and it is a life-saver so we are keen to get it back on the road. Recently the twist throttle has intermittently stalled with a fast-blinking red LED which looks like the problem you were having above. If you can remember (!) anything about this, could you let me know - at the very least, what does the blinking red LED even mean? I can order new battery / motor (Headline "HEV06703G") but at US$400 each I don't want to get the wrong "fix". Many thanks in advance!

Trike: https://missioncycles.co.uk/product/diblasi-r34-electric-folding-trike/
Oro/Cyclone twist throttle: https://lunacycle.com/oro-right-half-twist-throttle-for-cyclone-drive-with-power-switch-and-led/
 
Hi bobbygee
It's unlikely to be the battery especially if it's not happening under high power situations....so don't go replacing that yet.
I'm trying to remember what the issue was but I think, I ended up replacing both the throttle and the controller board. this is built into the motor in these units so thats means buying a new motor, unless you want to buy a a new board and fit it yourself, which is fiddly and I don't recommend.
I don't think I ever found out what the actual problem was, just replaced these two items and it worked.
I'll have a further look into it a see if I find anything, and get back to you here if I do.
The sales guy at the Taiwanese factory was really helpful, can't remember his name (if he's even still there)
Good luck, they are not the easiest of setups to trouble shoot.
 
Thank you kdog - very helpful. :thumb:

I would love to say I am going to take on the controller rebuild, but this David forgot his slingshot and that Goliath is looking big and hairy...

I did contact Cyclone and "Paco" told me it would be the motor - reading the forum it seems Cyclone have stopped selling new controllers as they cause lots of customer queries...

The post* you cite explains how/why the throttle LED flashes - the twist throttle has a smart connector that talks to the motor board so "knows" when the motor has failed.

I've ordered a new motor from the OEM (DiBlasi) - do you guys know how/if I can order a new motor direct from Cyclone ((Headline "HEV06703G") ??? Seems to be a wholesale/trade only setup on their website...

Thanks again kdog - hopefully we'll be back on the road before Xmas!

*https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56899
 
robocam said:
Thanks G. Upon closer inspection, I found out the throttle and CA input pin functions didn't match, so a simple swap of pin locations fixed the problem. I wish they'd standardize.

I have a new problem now. When the switch on the throttle is in the "on" position, the CA's voltage reads high. When it's in the "off" position, the voltage reading matches what my multimeter says. I've attached photos. Something in the Oro throttle is messing with the CA's voltage readout while not affecting my multimeter's readout. I may remove whatever's under that shrink-wrap to see if it fixes it. I don't need the Oro battery meter anyway.

Also, when I turn the switch off, the red LED on the ORO throttle blinks, normally used to indicate a dead battery. Before it was hooked to the CA, the LEDs on the throttle would just turn off when the switch was in the "off" position. I may have to move some wires around so that the power switch does what it's supposed to do.

Here's a schematic of an Oro throttle. I wonder if it's the same. I assume the +24 would be whatever your battery voltage would be.

http://www.ypedal.com/bikeE-cyclone-throttle.JPG

One more anomaly. Before I connected the Oro throttle to the CA, the display would read a negative current when the motor was not running. With the throttle connected and turned on, the display would read a positive current. I may have to look into the regen options in the manual. The wattage is positive when the motor is running, so the shunt isn't hooked up backwards.

Oh, and for some reason, the display lights up brighter when the throttle is connected and switched on (you can see it in the pics).

Did you figure out why the voltages were reading differently?
 
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