New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by electricwheels.de » Jun 18 2011 8:00am

Here the latest pics of the modified HS-X / HT-X :shock:
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Ritzelseite.JPG
freewheel side
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Ritzelseite.JPG (93.54 KiB) Viewed 3671 times
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Bremsseite.JPG
modified H Series brake side
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Bremsseite.JPG (96.59 KiB) Viewed 3671 times
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Bremssseite detail 1.JPG
brake side detail 1
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Bremssseite detail 1.JPG (96.36 KiB) Viewed 3671 times
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Bremsseite detail 2.JPG
brake side detail 2
Crystalyte Nabenmotor Baureihe H Bremsseite detail 2.JPG (87.64 KiB) Viewed 3676 times
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by hochdorf » Jun 18 2011 9:50am

What for you will install hall sensors, if Crystalyte sells sensorless controllers?

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Bazaki » Jun 18 2011 1:55pm

Nice job, do you also have pictures of the shaft tunnel with wires ? I'm wondering how you will fit everything through that.

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 18 2011 2:12pm

What for you will install hall sensors, if Crystalyte sells sensorless controllers?
Hall sensors are very inexpensive, and fairly easy for the assembly line to install them correctly at the factory, difficult for the average customer to add them, and it's possible for someone who is inexperienced to install them wrong.

Having halls in the motor is a wise choice. It allows the customer to decide what controller they want to use. Also, a customer may already own an expensive controller that requires halls, so that person does not have to buy the Crystalyte sensorless controller if they don't want to.

A motor with halls will still work with a sensorless controller if that is what you want.

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by wojtek » Jun 18 2011 3:15pm

anyone knows the reason Kenny doesn't want to install hall sensors? is it about making more money by selling ensorless controllers? Same with crystalyte analyst, the controllers shipped to Europe don't have the CA cables with an excuse that there is an "issue" or compability problems ...
I know that some US vendors pressed successfully Kenny to make controller with CA from Justin.
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by methods » Jun 18 2011 6:06pm

Hey wojtek - you hit on a bunch of very important issues that a lot of people are talking about. Let me comment on what you said so that some others can better understand the situation as it stands today.

wojtek wrote:anyone knows the reason Kenny doesn't want to install hall sensors?
Yes Kenny (with Electric Rider I suspect) switched to sensorless to try and regain market share from the Infineon / 9C crowd. Think about it... 99.9% of Infineon controllers require halls.... so if the xlyte motors are sensorless then it only makes sense to buy the Crystalyte sensorless controller. Crystalyte used to be the best name in the market - even just a year or two ago they were the only game in town. Then the Infineon controllers EXPLODED onto the market - running away with most of the money.
wojtek wrote:is it about making more money by selling ensorless controllers?
Yes it is about making money.

wojtek wrote:Same with crystalyte analyst, the controllers shipped to Europe don't have the CA cables with an excuse that there is an "issue" or compability problems ...
Please DO NOT refer to the Crystalyte box as a "Crystalyte Analyst". I have carefully reviewed the specifications on this box and it in no way replaces the CA or is comparable to the CA. People may be a little excited when it first comes out... but when they realize that under the hood it is mostly bells and whistles without any meat and potatoes a lot of folks are going to be trying to install true Cycle Analyst cables (or buying Stand Alone) versions.


wojtek wrote:I know that some US vendors pressed successfully Kenny to make controller with CA from Justin.
There is NO COMPATIBILITY ISSUE. The CA can pick off the digital speed signal JUST FINE from the sensorless controllers. Justin even posted the instructions right here on ES.

Kenny can put sensors in the motors
Kenny can use 35mm stators
Kenny can install the CA connectors on his controllers

It is up to YOU the customers to DEMAND this! Do not settle for less! Don't allow business to get in the way of the ELECTRIC REVOLUTION!!!!!

new subject:

If you are new and you are reading this - PLEASE - before you make a purchase take the time to learn how important it is to have halls in your motor (compatibility with any controller) and how important it is to have a CA tap on your controller (the ability to log Ah... i.e have a Fuel Gauge). Using Voltage to determine the state of charge of a battery is unacceptable - especially if running LiFe cells as they pretty much flatline until they are 95% depleted. An ebike is like a car.... you never want to run out of gas!!! Does anyone here drive their car until it is out of gas - then try and push it to a gas station :shock: Hell no - and ebikes are just the same.... and to avoid this situation one must have a proper measure of Ah - so one must have a CA.

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by bigmoose » Jun 18 2011 7:35pm

So methy, all you guys talk about Kenny at Crystalyte. Is he the owner, chief engineer, chief sales guy... or all of them? How big then is the company Crystalyte?
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Ypedal » Jun 18 2011 7:49pm

Kenny is, Crystalyte !

Stokemonkey page had pictures of the crystalyte " Factory " a while back.. will see if i can dig them up.
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by deVries » Jun 18 2011 8:13pm

Ypedal wrote:Stokemonkey page had pictures of the crystalyte " Factory " a while back.. will see if i can dig them up.
Kenny builds the motors for Stokemonkey out of Portland too?

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by mikebikerad » Jun 18 2011 11:58pm

What is the model number on the hall sensors for these motors? Same as nine cont? Originial x5?

Thanks

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by wojtek » Jun 19 2011 6:15am

Methods, i totally agree with you!
unfortunately it is easier said than done. Especially in Europe. Hopefully after some time when the situation will establish, Kenny wont have more orders than production capacity ect...
Now it smells like a monopoly, more demand than supply + people do believe that new HS / HT outperforms pretty much any other motor.

I did ask crystalyte europe to press Kenny for that but they dont care. If i said I won't buy the controller unless it is with CA cable or a motor with hall sensors, they will just apologize and won't care at all.
There is a different mentality here in continental europe. As strange as it may seem.. England is totally different.

But you need to place a big order to be able to demand. And strong negotiation skills.
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by groundproximity » Jun 19 2011 9:24am

A quick look at Edwards instructions gave me this for a Crystalyte throttle:

Pin 1: +5V (red)
Pin 2: Ground (black)
Pin 3: Throttle Signal (Green)
Pin 4: Battery VCC- or to the ignition wire (thin red wire) from the controller (blue)

Hope this helps.
@ Planky

that means i need a 4 pin throttle, cause mine from Justine is 3 pin.
On the controller ot says throttle is 4 pin female so... didn´t know there are 4pin throttles ore maybe i can rewire the 3 pin to fit the 4 pin.

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by RVD » Jun 19 2011 10:01am

regarding CA, why not just buy the motor/wheel from kenny but then buy the controller from lyen? lyen sells sensorless controllers with a CA plug...or am i missing something here?
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by electricwheels.de » Jun 19 2011 4:13pm

mikebikerad wrote:What is the model number on the hall sensors for these motors? Same as nine cont? Originial x5?

Thanks
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Planky » Jun 19 2011 11:14pm

groundproximity wrote:
A quick look at Edwards instructions gave me this for a Crystalyte throttle:

Pin 1: +5V (red)
Pin 2: Ground (black)
Pin 3: Throttle Signal (Green)
Pin 4: Battery VCC- or to the ignition wire (thin red wire) from the controller (blue)

Hope this helps.
@ Planky

that means i need a 4 pin throttle, cause mine from Justine is 3 pin.
On the controller ot says throttle is 4 pin female so... didn´t know there are 4pin throttles ore maybe i can rewire the 3 pin to fit the 4 pin.

Thanks
I would just try using pins 1 to 3 before thinking about a different throttle. :)

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Doctorbass » Jun 20 2011 12:10am

HALL SENSOR INSTALLATION EXEMPLE


Here is pictures of one HT35 i modified for a friend here in Quebec:

Instead of pulling completly the stator, i partially pulled it just enough to let me have enough room to work on the hall sensor location.

Please note that as opposite of the X5, the hall sensor location is ON THE SAME SIDE than the phase wires connections!

( I used DP420 epoxy.. but any other epoxy should work) and also some 26 gauge TEFLON wires capable of 260 celisus.

The most difficult part was to pass the wires under the winding.. I used long nose grip to pull them one by one under it.

I also installed 10AWG turnigy silicon wire for each of the 3 phase.

The room for wire i the slot of the axel is smaller than on the old great X5.. it is actually 100mil narrower!.. so to cary 5 litle hall sensor wires pl;us the 3 x 10 gauge wires.. i had to work hard!..

I used grease on the wires to let them slide easy on the bearing of the side cover.

Everything worked perfectly the first time i tested ! :mrgreen:

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by electricwheels.de » Jun 20 2011 11:50am

Do I detect wrestle marks on the left shrinking tubes :wink:
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by andreym » Jun 20 2011 4:51pm

Doctorbass wrote:HALL SENSOR INSTALLATION EXEMPLE

I also installed 10AWG turnigy silicon wire for each of the 3 phase.

The room for wire i the slot of the axel is smaller than on the old great X5.. it is actually 100mil narrower!.. so to cary 5 litle hall sensor wires pl;us the 3 x 10 gauge wires..
Doc
I cannot believe you could fit there 3x 10awg wires!
Have you dremeled some more space in the slot for this?? :?:
I could only fit 3x12awg teflon wires and 6thin ptfe wires for halls and thermo-sensor and that was pretty hard to do!

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Webbo » Jun 22 2011 3:26am

Hi sorry to sound dumb but can somebody please explain in detail how to open a hs motor? I have taken the screws out etc but that's as far as I have got. Do you need a puller and if so what do you attach the puller forks too as the unit is smooth and doesn't seem to have anything to get some leave ridge from. Also if you are using a puller is the puller screw shaft in connection with the electric cable side or the disk rotor side? Is is possible to take both sides of the covers off? Any info would really help pictures would be a real help including a video etc. Thanks

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Dee Jay » Jun 22 2011 3:55am

Webbo wrote:Hi sorry to sound dumb but can somebody please explain in detail how to open a hs motor? I have taken the screws out etc but that's as far as I have got. Do you need a puller and if so what do you attach the puller forks too as the unit is smooth and doesn't seem to have anything to get some leave ridge from. Also if you are using a puller is the puller screw shaft in connection with the electric cable side or the disk rotor side? Is is possible to take both sides of the covers off? Any info would really help pictures would be a real help including a video etc. Thanks
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Doctorbass » Jun 22 2011 9:37am

andreym wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:HALL SENSOR INSTALLATION EXEMPLE

I also installed 10AWG turnigy silicon wire for each of the 3 phase.

The room for wire i the slot of the axel is smaller than on the old great X5.. it is actually 100mil narrower!.. so to cary 5 litle hall sensor wires pl;us the 3 x 10 gauge wires..
Doc
I cannot believe you could fit there 3x 10awg wires!
Have you dremeled some more space in the slot for this?? :?:
I could only fit 3x12awg teflon wires and 6thin ptfe wires for halls and thermo-sensor and that was pretty hard to do!

Image

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Yes.. it worked!.. 3 x 10 AWG wire! ( the turnigy silicon 200C)

It was hard but it finally worked!!.. the trick is to put grease on the inside diameter of the bearing and on the wires skin!

Also.. pay attentin to the amount of silicon you put arounhd the winding for your hall sensor! :shock: too much silicon will make the winding to heat up more! . The silicone is an insulator.. and will block air flow around that part of the winding! If it blow.. i'm sure it will be around this area if you leave too much silicon in place :wink:
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Bazaki » Jun 22 2011 10:02am

I prefer to let the hall sensor wires on top of the winding instead of through the inside, I think on top is more airflow for cooling the wires, inside is more thight to eachother and less airflow. Any thoughts ?

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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by mylittlepony » Jun 22 2011 4:54pm

Chaps,
I just fitted my HS35 (stock) to my bike and have noticed that the power cable seems to be rubbing on the inside of the hole in the cheek plate as the wheel rotates. I'm in two minds whether to open it up and investigate (worried I'll break something) and running it as it is in the hope the sheath wears away a bit and the problem goes away (worried it'll fail instead). Has anyone else come across this? Does it matter? It is definitely rubbing as the cable moves a bit if I rock the wheel back and forth, it also makes a rubbery squeeking noise.
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by shawn_1976 » Jun 23 2011 7:13am

mylittlepony wrote:Chaps,
I just fitted my HS35 (stock) to my bike and have noticed that the power cable seems to be rubbing on the inside of the hole in the cheek plate as the wheel rotates. I'm in two minds whether to open it up and investigate (worried I'll break something) and running it as it is in the hope the sheath wears away a bit and the problem goes away (worried it'll fail instead). Has anyone else come across this? Does it matter? It is definitely rubbing as the cable moves a bit if I rock the wheel back and forth, it also makes a rubbery squeeking noise.
Cheers
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Re: New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24

Post by Webbo » Jun 23 2011 8:17am

Why are so many people converting their hs motors to sensored? I thought the best setup was to go sensorless what are the pros and cons. The crystalyte 72v sensorless controllers are meant to work perfectly with the hs series so what's the attraction for sensored?

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