Pictures of a new geared hub motor in the pipeline.

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Lowell   1 MW

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Pictures of a new geared hub motor in the pipeline.

Post by Lowell » Oct 16 2007 12:29am

Image

Image

Image

Image

5730 grams including motor, spokes, rim, tube, tire and brake disc.
Last edited by Lowell on Oct 16 2007 12:56am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mark_A_W   100 kW

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Post by Mark_A_W » Oct 16 2007 12:53am

Ooooo...disc brakes :)

Who?

Where?

How much?

And, HOW WIDE IS IT???
Can you fit large clusters (8 or 9) next to it?

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The7   10 kW

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Post by The7 » Oct 16 2007 1:26am

What is the gear reduction ratio?
Seems to be about 6:1?

recumbent   100 kW

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new gear hub motor

Post by recumbent » Oct 16 2007 1:50am

Looks to be 6" in dia. if the disc brake is any indicator.
Looks strangely familiar, is it a Puma type motor?
We want more info, like size, power and price, please.
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

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BiGH   100 kW

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Re: new gear hub motor

Post by BiGH » Oct 16 2007 2:03am

recumbent wrote:Looks to be 6" in dia. if the disc brake is any indicator.
Looks strangely familiar, is it a Puma type motor?
We want more info, like size, power and price, please.
could b an 203mm disc....

but i can't judge..

either way 5.7kg, not bad.

looks very similar to the pumas.

might be good for the front wheel of my bike hehe
Bike / Motor: Electric specalized rock hopper with Crystalyte 504 / 26"
Batt: Yesa 72v (36v*2) (getting 6.7ah) LiFEPO4 in a Topeak bag. OR 1x eMTB 48v 20ah pack (straps to frame) -depending on range requirements.
Controller: Unmodified 48a digital with 4110 Fets
Current Prob: Bike is in parts getting painted / drying / testing replacement BMS
Trail of Dead Parts:Avanti Frame, 408 motor *melted*, 35a controller - i broke by trying to mod it 2nd controller - blew it up.
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Jozzer   100 kW

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Post by Jozzer » Oct 16 2007 4:13am

2kg heavier than a Puma, doesn't look THAT much like one ....
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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BiGH   100 kW

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Post by BiGH » Oct 16 2007 4:18am

Jozzer wrote:2kg heavier than a Puma, doesn't look THAT much like one ....
Sorry i meant the insides...

2kg ..mmm what does the puma weigh? including rim and brakes?
Bike / Motor: Electric specalized rock hopper with Crystalyte 504 / 26"
Batt: Yesa 72v (36v*2) (getting 6.7ah) LiFEPO4 in a Topeak bag. OR 1x eMTB 48v 20ah pack (straps to frame) -depending on range requirements.
Controller: Unmodified 48a digital with 4110 Fets
Current Prob: Bike is in parts getting painted / drying / testing replacement BMS
Trail of Dead Parts:Avanti Frame, 408 motor *melted*, 35a controller - i broke by trying to mod it 2nd controller - blew it up.
My Ride

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Ypedal   100 GW

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Post by Ypedal » Oct 16 2007 8:13am

Don't forget tube AND tire !!! 8)

I like the look of it. big questions include how much $ and when ..
ES site status page:
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
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deecanio   10 MW

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Post by deecanio » Oct 16 2007 10:13am

does look like the new puma to me?
gears look identical, by the way to all those who are having trouble getting hold of a puma and want one i spoke with Mark today on the phone and he is getting the new type motors that knoxie tested and controllers to go with around christmas time.
he hasn't had enough motors to meet demand up till now but new stock is arriving at teamhybrid very soon.


cheers


D

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fechter   100 GW

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Post by fechter » Oct 16 2007 12:18pm

I want one!
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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DeeL2003   1 W

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Post by DeeL2003 » Oct 16 2007 12:59pm

Is that Justin's new geared hub motors from China he's been currently testing? :wink:

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Post by DeeL2003 » Oct 16 2007 1:05pm

deecanio wrote:does look like the new puma to me?
gears look identical, by the way to all those who are having trouble getting hold of a puma and want one i spoke with Mark today on the phone and he is getting the new type motors that knoxie tested and controllers to go with around christmas time.
he hasn't had enough motors to meet demand up till now but new stock is arriving at teamhybrid very soon.


cheers


D
I tried sending a message to Mark via his website asking if he ships to the US but didn't get a reply. I guess the send a message link is no good, couldn't wait so I ended up buying another 406. But I'm interested on getting a newer Puma with disc brakes put on a 2nd bike by the end of the year(at the earliest). Can you pm me his email address? Thanks

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new hub motor in the pipe-line

Post by recumbent » Oct 16 2007 2:50pm

Great! More choices available for us, seems to be a heavy duty (by one kg) version of the Puma motor :) Where do we sign-up for one?
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

Lowell   1 MW

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Post by Lowell » Oct 16 2007 2:57pm

Unfortunately I don't have much more info on this motor besides a couple of vidoes of it spinning on a bench. No load speed is roughly 1km/h per volt with a 26" tire. The best part is that this motor will be available, and stocked in Canada.

Does a Puma hub really weigh ~3.7kg complete with brake, rim, tire etc?

Image

Image

Image

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BiGH   100 kW

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Post by BiGH » Oct 16 2007 6:51pm

afaik it is the motor / hub only that weights that - not the rim etc.
Bike / Motor: Electric specalized rock hopper with Crystalyte 504 / 26"
Batt: Yesa 72v (36v*2) (getting 6.7ah) LiFEPO4 in a Topeak bag. OR 1x eMTB 48v 20ah pack (straps to frame) -depending on range requirements.
Controller: Unmodified 48a digital with 4110 Fets
Current Prob: Bike is in parts getting painted / drying / testing replacement BMS
Trail of Dead Parts:Avanti Frame, 408 motor *melted*, 35a controller - i broke by trying to mod it 2nd controller - blew it up.
My Ride

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Jozzer   100 kW

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Post by Jozzer » Oct 16 2007 7:41pm

Idd, 3.7kg bare. Seems its not heavier after all.

Can't wait for the X5 version of the Puma, thought this might have been it!
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Freddyflatfoot   1 kW

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Post by Freddyflatfoot » Oct 17 2007 3:20am

Looks very interesting! Could be a good candidate for ther lightweight e-bike project!
Rob
Rob
Current setup, 250 watt/24 volt chain drive setup on Jamis MTB, 24 volt, 10 AHr Yesa LiFePO4 pack. 15A controller. (increased to 20A, currently dismantled) (motor sold)
Home built recumbent trike, 350 watt, brushless, geared, hub motor, 36v/10AHr 'Duct Tape' LiFePo4

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knoxie   10 MW

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Post by knoxie » Oct 17 2007 3:42pm

Hi

Right this is for sure from the BMC factory, the stator and rotor are the same as the Old School stamped BMC motors, there isnt nothing new there, I cant speak for the windings but the actual motor itself is from the BMC factory and not the Puma factory, its a little confusing however it isnt the same as Marks Puma motors, it also has the thin inner ring gear, this is ok at 37V but can cause wear when used at 48V and up, the BMX (New Puma) full keyed inner gear is much easier on the nylon gears and the Nylon gears are stronger in the new Puma.

Knoxie

Lowell   1 MW

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Post by Lowell » Oct 17 2007 4:07pm

knoxie wrote:Hi

Right this is for sure from the BMC factory, the stator and rotor are the same as the Old School stamped BMC motors, there isnt nothing new there, I cant speak for the windings but the actual motor itself is from the BMC factory and not the Puma factory, its a little confusing however it isnt the same as Marks Puma motors, it also has the thin inner ring gear, this is ok at 37V but can cause wear when used at 48V and up, the BMX (New Puma) full keyed inner gear is much easier on the nylon gears and the Nylon gears are stronger in the new Puma.

Knoxie
Thanks for the comments, Knoxie. I just want to see more good products on the shelves. What's the status of the New Puma? Can they be bought in North America?

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Post by recumbent » Oct 17 2007 7:35pm

knoxie wrote:Hi... it also has the thin inner ring gear, this is ok at 37V but can cause wear when used at 48V and up, the BMX (New Puma) full keyed inner gear is much easier on the nylon gears and the Nylon gears are stronger in the new Puma. Knoxie
Thin ring gear? what, the cross section, thickness?
The gear contact area appears full against the nylon gear set, judging from the grease rubbings & size. Granted, pictures can be deceiving, & I cannot see the small drive gear.
If Nylon gears are stronger in another model, In what way? Perhaps its the metal plates riveted to the sides.
Maybe we can request a stronger gear set, if that's indeed an area of concern.
Wish we had access to all the warranty claims, then we can choose with confidence.
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

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knoxie   10 MW

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Post by knoxie » Oct 18 2007 5:18am

Hi

Well Mark is getting them in for Xmas I am not sure about anywhere else at the moment. The small drive gear is on the other side of the rotor, its pressed in to the rotor casing, this gear is steel, the nylon ones are OK for normal use but can suffer if you up the power too much. The newer gears are stronger and the inner gear isn't pressed in to the side of the motor casing, rather it is keyed in to the shaft of the motor, this seems to help with the meshing of the gears.

The Nylon gears can be replaced for steel ones, this would of course make the wheel a lot more noisy but would make the wheel virtually bullet proof if you wish to run high power with good reliability.

Cheers

Knoxie

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efreak   100 W

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Post by efreak » Oct 18 2007 10:33pm

Very Nice a la Borat..

the geared hub; isn't that the most efficient way to use the most out your pack? of course besides the tire ratio and aerodynamics etc.

efreak
5304 x-lyte
new72v 35-40
26" supercycle

working on 80 cell m1

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Post by recumbent » Oct 19 2007 12:56am

knoxie wrote: The newer gears are stronger and the inner gear isn't pressed in to the side of the motor casing, rather it is keyed in to the shaft of the motor,
I've seen other geared hub motors with one steel gear and two nylon gears on the same cluster. Is this what you mean by stronger?
The pressed-on gear, or "interference fit" is a secure science with years of proven reliability, just look at ring gears pressed onto flywheels of cars for starter engagement.
Not challenging you, just trying to understand and hope this is an affordable alternative for us. The light weight and smaller size are nice features also.

Looks like we're going to have more choices after Christmas, woo hoo!
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

solarbbq2003   10 kW

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bmc

Post by solarbbq2003 » Oct 19 2007 6:43am

knoxie
how do you think the freewheel and gears will stand up to 500watt windings?
Seems the 350watt version and 500watt are identical in structure apart from windings.
If the motor was designed for 350watt continuous, 500watt will be running it a bit over specs, I guess no way to find out except for long term use.
Have there been any probs with freewheels or gears thus far with the 500watters? I know that stephen in victoria australia experience with puma in kmx karts was feewheel failure in two motors, but he did bash the hell out of them, doing burnouts and sideways skids but seems they do have some limits.
Seems the sideways force of his riding had somehow caused the freewheel failures.
You have any concerns about the freewheels? by the way how the hell do you take the freewheel apart without breaking the side plates. It could prove problematic to fix the freewheel if its difficult to remove. I've got one here I tried to remove freewheel without success, did manage to crack one side plate with all the bashing I was doing.
Seems there has been an ebike retailer selling the bmc motor for some time in australia, I think he might have stopped selling now, but someone sent me a motor repair they had bought in australia which was same as your new version internally. I was very surprised to see someone had bought in australia, I think the retailer had no idea what motor he was selling somehow.

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Post by Jozzer » Oct 19 2007 7:40am

I've had no failures so far im my KMX, and I've been running at 40A 66v. Sideways torque on the KMX in the back wheen must be very high, far more that you would ever see in a normal bike..
Time will tell on how long the gears will last, but so far after lots of abuse I've not seen any problems on 3 puma's.

On another note, I just spoke to Mark at team hybrid, and he has a new batch of controllers to test. It looks like i'll get one, Paul the other to test on the latest batch of motors. If all goes well, Mark will bulk order, and have Puma's and controllers in stock by christmas.

The controllers apparently are 40A@36v, and automatically limit to 20A at 72v...sounds interesting, and I'll report back next week when I get one here and test it. THere is also a 25A version that I am lucky enough to test as well.

I suppose Justin will be selling his BMC's with the new modified crystalyte controllers, whaich hopefully will also be OK. (I'll be testing one of these too on a customers 48v puma setup...his old x'lyte expired at just 48vwith the puma motor:()
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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