DoctorBass's new toy: KMX TYPHOON **UPDATE 29 may 2011**

See page 2 for lastest updates


Thread moved and renamed ( 1 april 2011) for that new love story with my new KMX trike and me

See at the end of that page for the beginning !

Doc

Is the here going kmx ??

clem y den..victoriaville QC $1199.00 ,,,see kmx dealers

kriskros said:

clem y den..victoriaville QC $1199.00 ,,,see kmx dealers

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Hello,

Thanks, I already contacted him. He have a great deal to offre to me. :wink:

Doc

steveo said:

Is the here going kmx ??

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I meant to say is the doc going kmx? Sometime when i type on iphone fast half the word are missing in my messages lol

steveo said:

steveo said:

Is the here going kmx ??

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I meant to say is the doc going kmx? Sometime when i type on iphone fast half the word are missing in my messages lol

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Yes.. it's in my project list :wink:

I am very curious to discover the feeling of electric vehicule on 3 wheel and get more stability and fun!!

but.. i have many other things to finish before!.. but i might buy it very soon!

OMG.. I forgot to evaluate if i'll have enough place in my garage! :? .. I already have 3 ebikes, one dyno, the Mulching Mower!

I think i'll install a winch on the roof and will store them on the roof !

Doc

Steve and I both love our KMX's...

9x7 in 20" on 24S with 120A is amazing... that is what I ran last season. This season it will be the 35mm Xlyte in a 24" rim with 120V and 120A.

My advice would be to go with 20" up front and 24" in the rear (balloon tires all around) to help manage the bumps. Hitting bumps or potholes at 70kph will destroy your back. Even just navigating curbs and trails will become very rough and uncomfortable with the smaller wheels.

The hub that comes with the bike is 32 hole - very obnoxious. I created an adapter to allow any standard 20mm thru-axle hub to slide on the bike. Basically all you need is a tube that is 1/2" ID and 20mm OD...

Have fun doc - it will be everything you hope for. Just like riding in a remote control car.

-methods

methods said:

Steve and I both love our KMX's...

9x7 in 20" on 24S with 120A is amazing... that is what I ran last season. This season it will be the 35mm Xlyte in a 24" rim with 120V and 120A.

My advice would be to go with 20" up front and 24" in the rear (balloon tires all around) to help manage the bumps. Hitting bumps or potholes at 70kph will destroy your back. Even just navigating curbs and trails will become very rough and uncomfortable with the smaller wheels.

The hub that comes with the bike is 32 hole - very obnoxious. I created an adapter to allow any standard 20mm thru-axle hub to slide on the bike. Basically all you need is a tube that is 1/2" ID and 20mm OD...

Have fun doc - it will be everything you hope for. Just like riding in a remote control car.

-methods

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yeah"" that's encouraging!

I also keep in mind your advice about the throttle danger.. I might order one of these magura throttle.. but they are 0-5K pot.. so how to use that with an infineon controller that need voltage instead of resistor... does i need to make a buffered OP amp circuit that convert 0-5K to 0-5V ? with like 30mA out ?

Does the Kelly you sold me accept 0-5K ?

Doc

Doc

You can run a Magura right into an Infineon. The controller provides 5V, GND, and takes Signal. The 5K pot just divides this 5V from 0V - 5V. To meet the input requirements of ~1.2V - 3.8V you run resistors inline with the power and ground. A resistor inline with the ground is what brings your 0V up to 1V. A resistor inline with power is what brings your 5V down to 4V. Remember to make these calculations while the throttle is connected to the controller since there is yet another resistor in there that is in parallel with the Signal line.

Or - you could do like Steve does and just replace the internal pot with a hall sensor. Apparently he does this all the time and it results in a very reliable throttle.

Yes - the Kelly will take any input range. You can set the low threshold and high threshold so a 5k pot would actually be perfect right out of the box - you could leverage the entire throttle range.

That Kelly would be a killer on a KMX with an X5. I ran a 5305 in a 20" wheel and the acceleration off the line was amazing - but the power fell off very quickly. If you want to run a 5305 I think you should really consider using a 24" wheel so that you can move the power band a little farther up. When I switched from a 5305 in 20" to a 9x7 9C in the same 20" the performance increase was amazing... Slightly slower off the line but from 20mph - 30mph it was terrifying!

Put your gear on for the first 20 rides as you will definitely end up spilling it at some point... It takes a while to get used to being on 3 wheels. Once you get comfortable with having the inside wheel 10cm off the ground - that is when you will really be able to explore the amazing handling of the bike.

Also - on very long rides - like greater than 30 miles - you will find that you have no sore tail bone like with a regular bike. It is like sitting in a reclining chair for 5 hours.

-methods

Thanks You Methods for these great advices!

It seem i'll have alot of fun!

Btw.. I found that running a 5303 on 24" wheel 100V 150A give excellent acceleration and perfect powerband!

The front wheel want to lift from 70 to 85kmh.. than it top to around 115km i guess.. I acheived 106kmh and the street was too short to continue accelerating!.. and that was with the big 3" wide bite mtb tire!.. not a slic tire..

The suggestion i got from many KMX user was to buy the typhoon instead of teh cobra and to put 20" wheel on front and 24" wheel rear.. apparently that cost less overall.

Also doing that will let me keeping the front 16" for stree use and swaping to the 20" front wheel for the offroad use.

Methods, where is that famous video where we can see you on the kmx on the grass in front of your house?

Doc

Doctorbass said:

Btw.. I found that running a 5303 on 24" wheel 100V 150A give excellent acceleration and perfect powerband!

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Yea - that is what I am talking about! That sounds perfect... I love high KV motors in small wheels.


Here is a link to the video where I am doing some lawn burnouts and then the side loading on the 5305 causes the windings to crash into the housing. This was the same 5305 that I spun the axle on. After this I threw it in the bin and switched to 9C motors.

Trash an X5 with KMX

The KMX is really the best opportunity to experience the pleasure of small wheel torque. I have built a few regular bikes with 20" wheels and the pedals slapping the ground just ruins the experience. 20" on the KMX is no problem, totally natural.

-methods

Got my first trike!!!

A beautifull E-virgin Typhoon this afternoon! 8)

Since i never pedaled on that thing and never tried it... Please if you have any recommendations to share with me regarding the safety, maintnance and E-trike conversion, please let me know! :wink:

7 days vacancy + great sunny days we have here + brand new trike = Really happy doc!

Doc

You are going to love that thing...

I will post my mod later for converting the 0.5 inch front axles to 20mm so that you can use any standard 36 hole hub. If you decide to change the front wheels to 20" down the road (like the Cobra) this will save you the wasted time and effort of sourcing a 32 hole rim, de-lacing, then re-lacing. Then you can swap back and forth between wheel sizes in about 3 minutes.

I found the 16" rims did not give me the ground clearance or suspension for aggressive riding. After changing the front wheels to 20" and running balloon tires all around I have a very smooth ride and I can hit driveways, potholes, and off-road bumps a lot easier.

Practice riding it backwards... it is deceptively difficult not to flip if you get going fast. The reverse switch on the controller will become your best friend once you start riding in technical areas.

I have an HS35 in a 20" wheel for this season. I like the batteries over the front axle so that I can slide the rear end easier. I ran a 5305 (basically ht35) for the first few months. It was to low of KV... great off the line but it would poop out around 15mph. The 9x7 9C had much better acceleration from 20mph to 30mph - super exciting - but not the best off the line. I really think the HS35 will be the perfect compromise.

Keep us posted!

-methods

-methods

methods said:

You are going to love that thing...

I will post my mod later for converting the 0.5 inch front axles to 20mm so that you can use any standard 36 hole hub. If you decide to change the front wheels to 20" down the road (like the Cobra) this will save you the wasted time and effort of sourcing a 32 hole rim, de-lacing, then re-lacing. Then you can swap back and forth between wheel sizes in about 3 minutes.

I found the 16" rims did not give me the ground clearance or suspension for aggressive riding. After changing the front wheels to 20" and running balloon tires all around I have a very smooth ride and I can hit driveways, potholes, and off-road bumps a lot easier.

Practice riding it backwards... it is deceptively difficult not to flip if you get going fast. The reverse switch on the controller will become your best friend once you start riding in technical areas.

I have an HS35 in a 20" wheel for this season. I like the batteries over the front axle so that I can slide the rear end easier. I ran a 5305 (basically ht35) for the first few months. It was to low of KV... great off the line but it would poop out around 15mph. The 9x7 9C had much better acceleration from 20mph to 30mph - super exciting - but not the best off the line. I really think the HS35 will be the perfect compromise.

Keep us posted!

-methods

-methods

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Thanks you Method for these helpfull advices :wink:

I just tried it yesterday ( no motor)... that was the very first time i tried a trike :lol:

The 3 tires was just inflated at 15psi.. but i did not checked that .. and the toe in of the front wheels was way too tilted!!! i had like 15mm less on the front than on the back of the front wheel!... but again.. i did not checked that.. i was too tempted to try it now and not double check the adjustements...

I found it really difficult to pedal and that the direction was too quick and stressing ( too high toe in....)

but after i adjusted everything.. the dream came true!... and i discovered a really fantastic new experience with that trike!

I agree, the reverse switch will be helpfull!!... I think trike IS the thing to use reverse switch.. not bicycle!

I think i will keep the original wheel size for few month and then will try the cobra "style" experience.

I also have already a 5302 laced on 16" and 44mm wide ( 2009 Zero mx rim) i could put with a 20" slick tire

That think would heat alot of phase amp.. and would be perfect for my 36 fets controller... and would be FAST !

I think that the use of a steering damper like recumpence did could be a must...

trike + 5302 20" + 36 fets controller = ... too dangerous?.. too much fun!... too crazy

Doc

You will roll it at some point, so please wear a proper helmet. Perhaps you can consider a full-face now....

Gloves are a must!

that motor/tire combo sounds amazing! Please be careful over 40mph.... the bike becomes extremely responsive to input and can "shoot" you left or right before you know what is happening. Steering damping could be useful.... until then just play with the toe to dampen it.

-methods

Trikes are damn fun, I have my home-built one almost finished, and its been out for a few spins with components duct-taped on etc.. and even with a 5304 at 60 amps, its been a blast and i cant wait to turn the current limiter up a bit .Methods is right, my trike isn't a kmx, but it still gets a lil twitchy around 45ish mph. under-seat steering helps a bit with that however. I don't know why people roll there KMX's so much tho, on dry pavement, mine starts skidding before it rolls, doesn't matter what speed your at. It probably would roll if i hit a bump tho.

Should I rename this thread "DoctorBass's new toy" and move it to one of the Ebike subforums, so the discussion can just continue in it, and not get lost later?

amberwolf said:

Should I rename this thread "DoctorBass's new toy" and move it to one of the Ebike subforums, so the discussion can just continue in it, and not get lost later?

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Good idea!

Go ahead! :wink:

Doc

Done, now you can just edit the first post with any info you want to add.

amberwolf said:

Done, now you can just edit the first post with any info you want to add.

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amberwolf = good administrator

-methods

We just got one of these in yesterday to go do the Shell EcoMarathon.

I'm excited to see what madness you put on this thing :wink:

Hey Doc,

It is so good to see another trike build!

I agree with Methods completely. If you are doing road riding and want sports car performance, stick with the small wheels. If you want to handle bumps, go with bigger wheels and soft tires.

I agree with the comment about stability too. If you plan on going more than 35mph, I would HIGHLY recommend a steering damper. I use an aftermarket damper made for a Harley. That allows up to 70mph safely (ask me how I know ! )

Anyway, I am so excited to see your build come together.

Oh, lastly, if you want to keep it low as a road racer, I have 43mm wide 16 inch 32 hole rims in stock that I had made for KMXs. I would also recommend running the widest rims you can find, no matter what diameter they are. This thing is more like a car than a bike. You need to think outside the box.

Matt

recumpence said:

Hey Doc,

It is so good to see another trike build!

I agree with Methods completely. If you are doing road riding and want sports car performance, stick with the small wheels. If you want to handle bumps, go with bigger wheels and soft tires.

I agree with the comment about stability too. If you plan on going more than 35mph, I would HIGHLY recommend a steering damper. I use an aftermarket damper made for a Harley. That allows up to 70mph safely (ask me how I know ! )

Anyway, I am so excited to see your build come together.

Oh, lastly, if you want to keep it low as a road racer, I have 43mm wide 16 inch 32 hole rims in stock that I had made for KMXs. I would also recommend running the widest rims you can find, no matter what diameter they are. This thing is more like a car than a bike. You need to think outside the box.

Matt

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Thanks Mats for the advices and the rim offer.

I already have in mind to buy the old 16" rim of the Zero MX 2009 rims ( from the Zero electric motorcycle) that Ypedal have in large batch.

I already have 4 of those installed on my bikes with gauge 12 spokes. Really strong!!! 44mm wide so if i follow your advice with the use of large rims i think that should be enough with 44mm

Now i examinated alot your modifications on the yellow trike and i still wonder if the frame extensions you made to make it wider and longer really improove and really worth it?

I mean.. on many great cycle path that i love to ride on, the gates are not really large and that might become a problem and make the ride more complicated each time i met on of these gates...

But the structure that you renforced seem an interesting mod too!

Also, Yes i plan on using an X5 ( old gen) and i'm wondering if i keep it in 5302 or if i mod it in a 5304... the powerband of the 5302 is amazing!.. but for the same phase current, the 5304 wold give me better accelerations...

Anyway.. Next thing to do is: Making the drop out stronger!

and.. With the past mod i did on the giant in summer 2010, i think this is the way to go.

The only problem i see is that i would have the X5 axle to be pressed against steel and not the aluminum of the drop out. I think that could make the nut to loosen due to the aluminum that is softer.

On my giant what i made is to bend the swing arm a bit to the exterior to introduce the steel torque arms inside the swing arm frame and not outside so the X5 axle really touch steel and not aluminum.

I know aluminum is fragile about bending but i have succes with the giant DH comp last year. Also i never stress the weld.. I plan on bending just the last 2/3 of the lengh of the swing arm. The first 1/3 will be maintained in the same angle by pressing against it from the exterior while bending the rest of the 2/3.

I LOVE the added cornering capability of the widened frame. However, you are correct, it reduces the ability to fit on sidewalks and through gates. But, mine was built for all out performance on the street.

I cannot wait till you get this thing built!

Gentlemen, we have a tadpole convert!

Matt

hey 8) yes you are going to love this get some wide rims you can then fit spikes and take it out in the snow as well! loved riding my KMX in the snow 8) looking forward to seeing the build take shape. Full face helmet is a must at speed, I also wore elbow pads and gloves when going off road, you might want to consider a thumb throttle on the end of the bars, mine uses a normal 5K spring return pot this fits perfectly in the end of the bar.

The problem with fitting full size throttles is its very easy to turn on the power when you turn the bars esp if you hand it to someone to ride for the first time, I put Jozzers KMX with full size throttle through a wooden fence because of this :lol: . I will post a picture or a little video of my throttle later, see what you think.