Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by fechter » Jul 25 2018 10:46am

I tried using a rolling ball tilt switch on another project and it failed due to too much current on the contacts. Only a few mA was enough to trash it, so for sure you need a transistor to boost it. They might not work well on a bike that's going over bumpy ground. The ones I've seen for brake lights looked more like a pendulum. You might be able to use a sensitive micro switch with a weighted pendulum to activate it on deceleration.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by FlyByNight » Jul 26 2018 8:44pm

Just a little schematic I threw together. I am open to "NICE" criticism, ideas, or suggestions. I am in no way knowledgeable in this field. I actually had to learn all of this as I created the schematic. I would Love to hear all feedback, except nasty messages... I own a WhizWheelz Zoomer (Pre TerraTrike). This is my plans to modify it for a ride across Canada.

Image

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by fechter » Jul 27 2018 9:17am

FlyByNight wrote:
Jul 26 2018 8:44pm
Just a little schematic I threw together. I am open to "NICE" criticism, ideas, or suggestions. I am in no way knowledgeable in this field. I actually had to learn all of this as I created the schematic. I would Love to hear all feedback, except nasty messages... I own a WhizWheelz Zoomer (Pre TerraTrike). This is my plans to modify it for a ride across Canada.
I didn't trace everything out in detail, but it looks like it should work.

Does this trike have a motor? If you are using a motor, then you could power everything off the main battery instead of a separate 12v battery.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

FlyByNight   1 mW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by FlyByNight » Jul 27 2018 11:36am

Thanks. The trike does have a motor, but the battery setup is much different. The BMC V3 Motor runs off 8 lipo batteries running in Parallel & Series to total 37V (Being upgraded to 44.4V soon) which is more than the 12V needed. The idea behind these batteries is that I should only need to charge it once or twice while going across Canada.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by fechter » Jul 27 2018 2:06pm

Separate batteries will work for sure, but quite a bit of extra weight. The other way to do it would be to use a DC-DC converter that takes your bike pack and drops it to 12v. This will weigh less and cost less.

Here is an example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Con ... 3d34b127af
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

FlyByNight   1 mW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by FlyByNight » Jul 28 2018 4:04pm

fechter wrote:
Jul 27 2018 2:06pm
Separate batteries will work for sure, but quite a bit of extra weight. The other way to do it would be to use a DC-DC converter that takes your bike pack and drops it to 12v. This will weigh less and cost less.

Here is an example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Con ... 3d34b127af
Now that you mention it I realize that maybe I should update this schematic. Instead of the 2 12V 20AH batteries to power the schematic I could instead use 2 4S 10AH (20AH total) Batteries with a DC-DC to take it down to 12V. That will bring down the weight drastically and should still last me with across the country on a single charge (maybe 1-3 charges total).

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by KD5ZXG » Jul 31 2018 10:54am

fechter wrote:
Jul 25 2018 10:46am
I tried using a rolling ball tilt switch on another project and it failed due to too much current on the contacts. Only a few mA was enough to trash it, so for sure you need a transistor to boost it. They might not work well on a bike that's going over bumpy ground. The ones I've seen for brake lights looked more like a pendulum. You might be able to use a sensitive micro switch with a weighted pendulum to activate it on deceleration.
So, I now have a pair of adafruit ball tilt switches.

The experiment, if I get time, will be to wire them in parallel.
Also to place them in a 30deg vee. Thats the shape vee, not a
netname. Vee laid almost flat and parallel with respect to the
roadway, excepting the tilts needed to detect deceleration.
Each arm also aimed slightly aside, not quite straight ahead.

I figure 2n3906 NPN might do for the switching. Pull the base
up toward 1 cell with 33K, more or less? Let either of the tilt
switches shunted across VBE turn that transistor off. Maybe
this application would prefer a slower transistor? I got some
oldschool 2n2222 in TO-18 cans. Proven useful since 1962...

This limits the mechanically switched current and voltage to
100uA and 0.7V, hopefully low enough to cause no extra wear.
Requires both dislodged from rest to turn the transistor ON.

Between the vee shape and transistor saturation, perhaps
some debounce will be achieved? That's the experimental
part, not that I'm worried the described circuit is no good.
Just don't want to make complicated where simple will do.

Underneath the seat might be a location better insulated
from vibration than the kickstand? But need a different
sort of deadman switch to insure a drainproof turn-off.
Don't know what sort of switch might be suitable...

--- edit early AM Aug 1st ---

And it works (w 2n4401), on a breadboard anyway.
Bent to about 60 degrees Vee, with a 30 deg uptilt.
Not so glitchy as I was worried, but road test might
reveal otherwise. An arm swing limited by clipleads
just can't fake.

VCEsat and 100 series ohms restrict LED to <20mA.
Voltage drop across my Red was about 1.95V...

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Ebuilt » Aug 12 2018 8:01pm

Can someone who has a powervelocity controller+domino throttle please share the wiring diagram to run them together?
There are 5 wires on the Domino, and 3 wires on the controller.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Alan B » Aug 12 2018 8:48pm

Two wires on the Domino are a switch that you can ignore.

three wires are the throttle pot.
One goes to 5V
one goes to ground
one to the throttle input.

For best results add a 1-2k pot at the top and bottom ends to adjust it for maximum span.

Search here on ES, the wiring has been documented.

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Ebuilt » Aug 12 2018 8:58pm

Alan, thank you kindly. My searching capabilities did not help me find my answer, hence asking for advice here, either I get 0 results found, or stuff that wasnt for this controller/throttle combo. Also, Im not sure what adding pot to my throttle means, must admit, Im looking for help because Im clueless. Im not lazy, but I am also lacking in technical terms and knowledge on top of only a hint of understanding electrical stuff. Im trying, this is all relatively new to me, Im sure its all simple stuff for anyone whos been exposed to it for longer than a month.

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Alan B » Aug 12 2018 9:17pm

Probably should check with your controller supplier, they should be able to help.

White is ground, Black is signal out to the throttle input of the controller, Light blue is +5 (or 4.3) from the controller.

Adding some adjustable resistance (1-2k) in series with white allows adjusting for minimum dead zone at low end of throttle.

Adding some adjustable resistance (1-2k) in series with light blue allows adjusting for max speed to be right at end of throttle rotation.
Attachments
domino throttle.PNG
domino throttle wiring

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Ebuilt » Aug 12 2018 9:54pm

Alan, thank you, I guess Im just not meant for this ebike stuff because 80% of what you said did not stick. There are different levels of people and Id say when it comes to this stuff, Im on the very special level. I guess what I was hoping for is a spoonfed version or schematic of the specific wires from the Domino to the Controller, and these pots you mention, I looked up what they are, I understand what they do, but as far as figuring out which specific ones I need to buy and figuring out where exactly they go on the wires is past my abilities.

I was hoping for a direct answer from someone who is running the exact same system as what I have is all.

I learn everything backwards, I read books from the back, Etc, took too many hits to the head when younger. Ive seen some stuff on this forum documented very clearly and easy to understand even for me, but I have been having a hard time personally with this ebike conversion stuff.

Once again, thank you Alan, and I see that you have a ham handle also, I will be going to the VFW in two weeks to get my first real life exposure to ham stuff, hope its graspable. Thank you.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Alan B » Aug 12 2018 11:43pm

Contact your controller vendor, he should be able to help you. The Domino throttle is not plug and play with ebikes, it requires some wiring work. You could connect it without adding the resistors but the result would not be optimal, and it still requires wiring things properly.

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Ebuilt » Aug 13 2018 12:54am

Thanks Alan. My half twist throttle works just fine with this controller: green: green, black(controller): yellow, red:red. I think ill just put the Domino up for sale and ride with a cheapie. Take care.

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by Couchy » Oct 20 2018 1:48am

I am chasing a way to reduce the max amperage going to my BBSHD to about 4 amps at the flick of a switch to drop the power output to about 200w. I am running a 52v lithium battery capable of about 40 amp continuous and 90 amp surge. I was thinking about a current limiting device I can switch over to between the battery and controller but am not sure how this works. I have been trying to Wikipedia it but done unserstand there diagrams. Can someone help me out with a circuit schematic that I can use?

Regards

Couchy

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by amberwolf » Oct 20 2018 11:08am

Your controller is the current limiting device, so you would need to change it's settings to do that.

If it's not possible, then you'd need to open up the controller, and find the current-measuring shunt, and trace the circuitry from there to the MCU. If you can install a voltage divider on the signal from teh shunt to the MCU, you can then put a switch across the top resistors in the divider to short across it, negating the divider and making it run at full current.

Use a normally-closed switch (instead of the normally-open commonly found) or the NC contacts of a multi-throw switch, so that it runs in the full mode when the switch is "off".

The voltage divider just needs the value difference of the two resistors to be proportional to the change in current you need.

There've been some threads (I think one by Jeremy Harris?) about changing the current levels this way, but I dont' have a link.

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by minde28383 » Nov 12 2018 12:08pm

I got question mainly regarding diode (which is installed on coil).
This is schematic for my scooter, except lights.

1.
Do I need charging resistor to pre-charge caps in my controller? Why is it for? If I won't be installing resistor what components are effected negatively in long or short run? I thought if relay is used you don't need to suppress arcs as it's relays job to take care of it. Also does sparks have negative effect on controller/its caps?

2.
Second main question.
Do I need to use contactor coil spike suppression diode (circled green).

////////////
bellow I have quotes from internet explaining coil spike suppression diode purpose in its usage, but I still don't understand why in all schematics I saw, the diode is installed with band in battery side and how the diode actually stop that voltage spike. Also do the diode is required when Sabvoton controller is used, I know that some other controllers do not require diode on contactor.
Description

A coil spike suppression diode is a protection device across the contactor coil. Energizing the contactor coil creates a magnetic field that forces the solenoid arm to engage the contacts. When the contactor is turned off, the magnetic field collapses causing a back “voltage spike” that can damage the controller. The diode safely suppresses this energy.

Still don't understant how coil spike suppression diode suppresses that voltage spike just sitting between minus and plus on coil.
Note: Pre-Charge Resisters and Coil Spike Suppression Diodes are required with all Alltrax controllers but are not used with Curtis AC controllers or Sevcon controllers

Installation

The Diode goes across the contactor coil with the band towards the positive side of the coil.
Attachments
Capture.JPG
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Upload Your Circuit Schematics & Requests Here...

Post by fechter » Nov 12 2018 12:57pm

minde28383 wrote:
Nov 12 2018 12:08pm
I got question mainly regarding diode (which is installed on coil).
This is schematic for my scooter, except lights.

1.
Do I need charging resistor to pre-charge caps in my controller? Why is it for? If I won't be installing resistor what components are effected negatively in long or short run? I thought if relay is used you don't need to suppress arcs as it's relays job to take care of it. Also does sparks have negative effect on controller/its caps?

2.
Second main question.
Do I need to use contactor coil spike suppression diode (circled green).
1. Sort of depends on the controller and the relay. I've used big relays with no resistor and it worked OK. What takes a beating are the contacts in the relay. If the controller caps are too big or voltage too high, the relay contacts can possibly weld and get stuck on. They could also possibly get burnt and develop high resistance. The precharge resistor will prevent this. Otherwise, the other components seem to survive well.

2. The diode is there to circulate the current caused by the collapse of the magnetic field when the coil is turned off. Without the diode the coil will develop an extremely (destructive) high voltage for a brief instant when the relay coil is turned off. Note the diode is reverse biased so it is not conducting when the coil is powered.

A possible alternative is to use a solar circuit breaker instead of a relay. Lots of people have used these (without a precharge resistor) and they seem to work well. Not only gives you an on/off switch but doubles as protection from shorts.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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