What Should I Do With This Bike?

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Beagle123   10 kW

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What Should I Do With This Bike?

Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 2:58am

I encountered an old guy who bought this ebike 5 years ago, and now its broken. I offered to try to fix it for him, but I'm not sure what can be done. I beleive the hub motor has somehow gone bad. When I activate the throttle, it makes a click-click-click sound. I can tell that something is spinning in the hub, but almost no power is transfered to the wheels. He says the batteries were tested and they're fairly new.

It seems like there is a belt broken, or stripped gears etc. However, I'd assume that the hub is not geared. ????

What are the chances of me being able to take it apart and fixing it?

This is a 24v bike.

I'm guessing it must have NiCads because its 5 years old.

Does anyone have a spare hub motor?

If the hub motor is blown, the bike could be considerd junk. But I'm sure the guy would love to have his bike back.

One option is to buy a ebike conversion kit. I can get a 48v, 10ah SLA brushless hub motor set-up off ebay for about $320. I could install it on his front wheel. Then he could have the back hub motor replaced with a normal hub.

Any ideas? Suggestions?
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Link   100 MW

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Post by Link » Dec 19 2007 3:06am

My suggestion is that you give it to me :D.

If you don't feel like doing that (:() then I suppose you could take it apart and see if it's fixable. If it's a geared motor and a gear or belt has slipped then you could probably replace it fairly easily. If it's not a geared motor then all I can think of is something drastic has happened like the windings have fallen off or the magnets have broken. You could rewind it with a bit of elbow grease, but you might have a hard time finding replacement magnets.
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Beagle123   10 kW

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Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 3:44am

I'm afraid springs would fly out and I wouldn't be able to get it back together again.
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BiGH   100 kW

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Post by BiGH » Dec 19 2007 5:00am

id say its definitly a geared hub motor then.

its unlikely to spring apart if you take one of the side plates off.
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Dee Jay   100 kW

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Post by Dee Jay » Dec 19 2007 5:18am

Don't give it to him, give it to me! That is one cool bike. The gas tank is priceless! I was thinking of putting a fake-chrome or metallic (plastic) gas tank over my battery, something that blends in with the Revive. I would probably have to make a plastic mold myself.

Thanks for sharing the pics, Beagle.

FYI: I have my bike posted, check it!

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35ec#41462
Last edited by Dee Jay on Dec 19 2007 9:25am, edited 1 time in total.

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itron   10 mW

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Post by itron » Dec 19 2007 5:32am

if it's a brushed hub, it's likely that the brushes are worn out. It should'nt be so difficult to replace them, as long as you can find the fitting parts.
You can take the hub cover off and take a look inside. I did it myself.

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rkosiorek   1 MW

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Post by rkosiorek » Dec 19 2007 7:28am

is the controller external or internal to the HUB motor?

if it is external, how many wires go into the motor?

if there are 2 wires than it would be a brushed motor. 3 would be a brushless motor.

if it is a brushed motor it could just need the brushes replaced. take one of the old ones to a electric motor rebuild.rewind shop and have them matched as closely as possible. you could also try a vacuum cleaner repair shop.

if it is a brushless motor, it could be that one of the hall sensors has come loose and is rattlingabout in the case. replacing it requires soldering one to the leads and glueing it back into place with epoxy.

either way you won't know for sure until you take it apart. i have yet to see anything go SPROING out of the case unless it was physically broken in there.

just take it apart. have the camera handy to document any damage and for reassembly tips. remeber they put it together, so it has to come apart.

rick

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Post by TylerDurden » Dec 19 2007 9:40am

Go for it, dogbreath... you got the chops.

If the thing is toast, you can just get another hubmotor and lace it in.


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vanilla ice   100 MW

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Re: What Should I Do With This Bike?

Post by vanilla ice » Dec 19 2007 12:18pm

Beagle123 wrote:I can get a 48v, 10ah SLA brushless hub motor set-up off ebay for about $320.
If the controller is brushed and his bats are ok, you can get the dc from ebikes for $150 already laced to a 26" wheel.

deardancer3   10 kW

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Post by deardancer3 » Dec 19 2007 2:03pm



If you are in southern california, I know a guy with a stripped ebike (sharper image) that still has a rear brushed motor- the guy would probably trade the rear hub motor even up for someone making the bike a useful beach cruiser with a single speed 26" wheel.


dick

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fechter   100 GW

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Post by fechter » Dec 19 2007 2:04pm

Beagle123 wrote:I'm afraid springs would fly out and I wouldn't be able to get it back together again.
Like it's broken already, so you don't have much to risk.
Good chance you can find something obvious. If the motor is unrepairable, the battery and controller might work with a different motor.

Rip and tear. Take pics and post.
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Beagle123   10 kW

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Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 3:03pm


Thanks for all the advice. I took the battery apart and measured the voltage. There were rows of white batteries that I'm sure are NiCads. THe voltage was 24.7v. I left the charger connected overnight and the red light never turned green dor some reason. However, the batteries seem to work because I connected them directly to my scooter motor and it spun the wheel easily. It seemed like it had good power.

I guess my next move is to connect the battery directly to the hub motor. If it malfunctions, I"ll take it apart and post pictures for you guys! :D

I"ll include a pic to keep you happy until then.

I've taken many things apart in my life, and I must admit that my "patient's" chances of survival are about 25% at best.
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Beagle123   10 kW

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Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 3:10pm


Answers to questions:

I'm pretty sure that there are only 2 wires going to the hub, so it must be a brushed motor.

I beleive the controller is external. It is located just below the batteries. I'm going to take it apart now.

Thanks for the info on getting new hub motors. Deardancer, I may need to get that guy's info from you. It sounds like a perfect match. I'll let you know later.
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Beagle123   10 kW

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Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 4:10pm

Update:

The controller was inside the gas tank. I disconnected the controller completely and connected the battery directly to the hub motor. The hub motor no longer made the clicking sound, but it still lacked power. I could easily hold the bike in place with the battery connected. I connected a voltmeter to test the sag. It went down to about 4v while the battery was connected. When I lifted the wheel off the ground, it spun pretty quickly, but obviously it has little power. While the wheel was spinning, the voltmeter read 20v. Since its sagging 4v at no load, it seems to me that this batery must be bad. I hope the hub isn't bad too.

I suspect that something is wrong with the charger too. I plugged it into the wall and the light was red with nothing attached to the charging plug.

Avoid BMSBattery like the plague. (I read that somewhere :)

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fechter   100 GW

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Post by fechter » Dec 19 2007 5:06pm

It sounds like the battery was sagging so much it was hitting the LVC.

I bet it runs OK with a better battery.

Got some old lead lying around?
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Beagle123   10 kW

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Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 5:10pm

More Progress:

I figured out the problem with the charger. It was a blown fuse. I bet the guy was trying to charge it with a blown fuse, and its a simple case of dead batteries.

Now I wonder if the NiCads will be damaged from sitting around for a long time? Do they suffer from low-voltage storage?

Pic of me bypassing the fuse with a wire to try charging the batteries.
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Beagle123   10 kW

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Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 5:16pm

Does this look like a NiCad Charger? This looks like a typical SLA charger to me. I don't know if NiCads need a different type of charger. It doesn't say anything about SLA or NiCad on it. It charges at a little over 28v.
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vanilla ice   100 MW

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Post by vanilla ice » Dec 19 2007 5:31pm

IIRC Nicads are real good about sitting around years and years. Not sure how discharged those were though. Looks exactly like my 24v SLA charger did. Is the pack 1p?

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Beagle123   10 kW

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Post by Beagle123 » Dec 19 2007 11:57pm

Hi Vanilla:

Yes the pack must be 1p because you can't charge NiCads in parallel. Its a 1p, 20s pack. I thnk they're shot. I have NiCads in my Ryobi power tools, and I accidentally left the flashlight on, and that pack has about half the capacity or less now. This was totally exhausted for a long time (tires flat).

I'm going to tell him to get new batts. The batts are a 2X2X5 configuration. If I were to get two 36v Dewalt packs, and make a 2p, 10s battery, he'd get 33v, 5ah. Hmmm.


Thanks everyone.
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vanilla ice   100 MW

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Post by vanilla ice » Dec 20 2007 12:50am

Just get him two lead bricks. The charger will work with it and I'll bet the guy cares about cost more than weight. Well I can only assume, an old dude with an old broke bike wouldn't want to drop two bills on a repair. But if he does, cool.

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Beagle123   10 kW

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Re: What Should I Do With This Bike?

Post by Beagle123 » Dec 20 2007 7:46pm

I bet you're right Vanilla.
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Nimbuzz   1 kW

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Re: What Should I Do With This Bike?

Post by Nimbuzz » Dec 22 2007 11:01am

1) The nicads need the proper charger -- 3 amps is OK but it must be peak detection charger that can detect when the pack is full or a timed charger where you can charge it until the pack gets warm. Of course the pack could be shot but nicad is very robust and may be fine. It usually takes several cycles to wake up a dormant nicad.
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Re: What Should I Do With This Bike?

Post by recumbent » Dec 22 2007 9:51pm

Nimbuzz wrote:1) nicad is very robust and may be fine. It usually takes several cycles to wake up a dormant nicad.
That's exactly what happened to my 36 volt NICAD's that sat discharged for a year, had to get a few charge cycle's to get it back up and running normal. NICAD's are amazingly resiliant.

Beagle123- your charger looks almost exactly like my 36 volt NICAD charger from Heinzmann, 1999 model. Is it light weight and get hot at the bottom? I think your in luck.
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Re: What Should I Do With This Bike?

Post by Nimbuzz » Dec 23 2007 12:05am

When you charge it I'd stay nearby and catch it when it gets warm -- DON'T let it get hot as that deteriorates it, as with most chemistries. A peak charger can miss the peak and keep charging. I have seen chargers miss the peak and turn the pack into a smoldering, hissing, seam bursting branding iron -- this on 7.2v RC packs. Once the charger has proven itself then you can back off and trust it but you can also use a timer for safety. Of course nicad is the old memory chemistry that should be discharged all the way then charged all the way for each cycle. If it gets some half charge cycles it can be reset by discharging all the way then giving it a full charge.
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Re: What Should I Do With This Bike?

Post by magudaman » Dec 23 2007 5:21am

I had that bike for about a week and took it back. I bought it at pepboys for really cheap, like $150. The batteries are Nimh. There are 20s 1p. There is a poly fuse inside, temp monitor, temp switch. Is a brushed motor. I'll have to see if I can dig up the pictures of the batteries and cells. My batteries were shot when I got it from self discharge.
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