fried my Lyen controller

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jorijnsmit   1 mW

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fried my Lyen controller

Post by jorijnsmit » Feb 23 2012 9:57am

After connecting my 12FET Lyen controller to my setup (48V 20AH SLA, 2500W hub) I witnessed my first frying session in the garage :-) Apparently the GND wire for the brake connector burned through its coating—see picture.
IMG_20120221_191833.jpg
What exactly happened is not clear to me.

Now after re-installing the default controller I can't get the motor running again. Actually after connecting a second phase wire to the motor and turning the wheel by hand it doesn't spin freely anymore but needs more power and 'jerks' a lot. Nothing happens when accelerating. The circuit is still intact, (brake) lights etc. still work...

Who can help me figure out what went wrong here?
Last edited by jorijnsmit on Feb 23 2012 10:03am, edited 1 time in total.

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 23 2012 10:03am

If a wheel is hard to turn when you have phase wires hooked up its something shorting out the phase wires. Look at the fets they are the usually cause of this. Use a multi meter and test between all 3 phase wires in both directions. If you get a low number that's where to look. Also test between positive and negative with the probes hooked up one way and then the other. All your resistance tests should read hi or infinite. I find it strange a brake ground wire burnt? what did it burn to??? Did it arc to the case? If so that means the case is live (shorted to +) Have a look and make sure the board is not letting the traces touch the case.
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jorijnsmit   1 mW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by jorijnsmit » Feb 23 2012 10:22am

The weird thing is that the wheel acts this way while the old controller is connected again! I can understand something inside Lyen's controller is shorting the phase wires—it is fried after all. But the old controller should just work normally again right? This leads me to think there is a problem in the circuit or hub itself...

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 23 2012 10:24am

jorijnsmit wrote:The weird thing is that the wheel acts this way while the old controller is connected again! I can understand something inside Lyen's controller is shorting the phase wires—it is fried after all. But the old controller should just work normally again right? This leads me to think there is a problem in the circuit or hub itself...
How easy does the wheel turn with out a controller hooked to it? And test all three phase wires to each other and to ground on the motor too.
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
www.powerdesigns.ca
Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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jorijnsmit   1 mW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by jorijnsmit » Feb 23 2012 10:29am

Without a controller it moves like it should; without resistance. Phase wires test good.

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 23 2012 10:30am

jorijnsmit wrote:Without a controller it moves like it should; without resistance. Phase wires test good.
Then its in the controller
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
www.powerdesigns.ca
Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
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Ykick   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Ykick » Feb 23 2012 10:39am

That almost looks to me like the main gnd is/was open and all the current attempted to pass through the brake sense gnd?

If your motor spins fine completely disconnected your phase wires are likely okay. Stiffening up when connected could be maybe regen activated? You do have a smoked brake sense wire...
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

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jorijnsmit   1 mW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by jorijnsmit » Feb 23 2012 11:18am

Ykick wrote:Stiffening up when connected could be maybe regen activated? You do have a smoked brake sense wire...
The old controller doesn't have a regen function afaik.
Ykick wrote:That almost looks to me like the main gnd is/was open and all the current attempted to pass through the brake sense gnd?
Could you elaborate? I sound tested the brake sense wires on the circuit and get a weird reading—the problem lies somewhere here. I suspect that it is also what affected my old controller when connecting it again...

nineball   100 W

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by nineball » Feb 23 2012 11:19am

I would suspect blown halls in hub
48v 1000w Rear Brushless Hub(Cracked Rim)/ Switched to 36v 500w E-Bikekit 28" 9c 9x7 (performs the same)
Keywin 60/72v 45A controller/w CA(smoked big time) Replaced with Methods 100v monster
(8) Bosch 36v Fat packs 72v + 3 12sla 97v Hot off charge
30-40 mph cruise...has hit 50 (bike & trike)
Trike is done, got over 1200 miles update/2100+ miles studded snows for winter

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jorijnsmit   1 mW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by jorijnsmit » Feb 23 2012 11:21am

nineball wrote:I would suspect blown halls in hub
I tested the whole setup with a different hub and it did the same so I don't suspect a problem with the motor anymore.

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Ykick   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Ykick » Feb 23 2012 11:24am

jorijnsmit wrote:
Ykick wrote:Stiffening up when connected could be maybe regen activated? You do have a smoked brake sense wire...
The old controller doesn't have a regen function afaik.
Ykick wrote:That almost looks to me like the main gnd is/was open and all the current attempted to pass through the brake sense gnd?
Could you elaborate? I sound tested the brake sense wires on the circuit and get a weird reading—the problem lies somewhere here. I suspect that it is also what affected my old controller when connecting it again...
There could be a mild regen activated by brake sense input. I believe some Lyen controllers shipped that way? Best to ask him of course but if the old controller behaves the same I'm probably barking up the wrong tree.

Give your battery connection a close look. Are they Anderson connectors? Is so, make sure the black gnd is making good contact. Actually, give all connectors a good push, wiggle and tug to make sure they're solid.

Why did you replace the original controller? Just an upgrade or was there an existing problem?
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

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jorijnsmit   1 mW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by jorijnsmit » Feb 23 2012 12:24pm

Ykick wrote:Why did you replace the original controller? Just an upgrade or was there an existing problem?
Just an upgrade, mostly to boost acceleration. There are a lot of traffic lights here in Amsterdam :P

The connectors are indeed Anderson but not the problem :-)

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 23 2012 12:38pm

Does it make the wheel hard to turn before you turn the controller on??? If so its nothing other the the fets or something laying across or inbetween the traces.
Last edited by Arlo1 on Feb 23 2012 12:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
www.powerdesigns.ca
Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Lebowski   1 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Lebowski » Feb 23 2012 12:41pm

did you accidently connect the ground of the 48V to the frame of the bicycle (like you would do in a car/gasbike) ?

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jorijnsmit   1 mW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by jorijnsmit » Feb 23 2012 2:11pm

Arlo1 wrote:Does it make the wheel hard to turn before you turn the controller on??? If so its nothing other the the fets or something laying across or inbetween the traces.
Nice one! Yes, even when turning the power and main switch off, the wheel still cannot turn freely.

On top of that, I found out that the wires I connected the brake sense to are different on the previous controller. It carries 48V (!) and 36.66V when braking. I will need to get schematics on my current circuit to figure this out further.

The question that remains however is what did this do to my Lyen controller and how come my old controller is also affected?

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by MadRhino » Feb 23 2012 4:29pm

My guess is a short in wiring, and both your controllers might still be good. Test all wiring, especially this brake switch that you shouldn't plug before testing anyway.

When I install a new motor or controller, I first test them separately, then double check all wiring and connectors. When I plug them to test, I plug only the throttle, halls and phase wires. After I'm sure that I found the proper hall and phase sequence, I plug one by one the other accessories, CA first, then 3 spd switch, regen brake switch...
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: fried my Lyen controller

Post by Arlo1 » Feb 23 2012 5:54pm

Maybe. But if it does it turned off it would need to be a short from something to a phasee wire and to another phase wire!!!!
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
www.powerdesigns.ca
Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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