Aerodynamics thread?
- truckerzero 100 W
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
Here is my 2 cents. On the simulater the most aerodynamic you can get without a full streamlined body is a lowracer and maybe add that tail box and if you did that you could hide the batts and electronics in there maybe even throw on a etec or etec brushless motor and have a very fast and efficent ride just check out the difference of power use on a mountin bike verses a lowracer at 30 mph its alot. with a 220lb rider and a 175lb bike(100lbs batt/25lbs motor/35lbs bike)a moutn bike is 1000 watts, a lowracer 500, and with a tail box 400 @30mph.{ 400watts at 80% effiencicy =500 watts total divided by 30mph=16 watts permile 100lb sla=2000 watts divide by 16 equals 125 miles times 80% dod =100 miles @30 mph }not bad (on paper anyway) uh i mean monitor lol
ford explorer 12 mpg
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
These fairings work great, even at peddaling speeds it has noticable difference, and it looks way cool
, everybody admires it. They clean-up and finish, if you will, the whole front end the bike, and the laid back comfy seat looks better when the rider is lounging inside. Best designed bike I've ever rode in my life.

- Attachments
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- These fairings roll-up into a tube for storing or shipping
- LWB bike with fairing.jpg (145.84 KiB) Viewed 2497 times
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
I can get into a pretty good tuck position. Thanks to my cruiser type seat, I can put my butt behind the seat and rest my hamstrings on the sides of the seat and it works. I've heard some people say that they can't get behind their fairings. I believe I'd be able to get behind any fairing shown above with my cruiser seat. I did make some slight angle changes on the plastic seat using a heat gun and removed some of the structural plastic bracing as it was set up for a 300+lb dude. The plastic now gives more and is more back friendly.lazarus2405 wrote:The simplest way to reduce drag would be to simply get in a better position. That means a recumbent, or for us on mountain bikes, an aerodynamic tuck. A "superman tuck" with aero bars would work wonders. Perhaps when my setup runs again, I'll check out what my lbs has.
408 front hub
21000+ miles on many sla's.
5 tires worn out
21000+ miles on many sla's.
5 tires worn out
- truckerzero 100 W
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
here is a picture of the type of low racer that could cut power consumption in half and dramaticly increas top speed what do you think?
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- nocom.jpg (11.42 KiB) Viewed 2434 times
ford explorer 12 mpg
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
How much does that cost? That might be too low. You might drag your arms on the ground if not careful. 

408 front hub
21000+ miles on many sla's.
5 tires worn out
21000+ miles on many sla's.
5 tires worn out
- lazarus2405 10 kW
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- Joined: Sep 05 2007 3:49am
- Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
Well, that's a beautiful bike. I bet it'll do 70 easily, 80 at about 4kw. But, I wouldn't want to ride on that at those speeds on anything but a salt flat. Or, I'd hate to see that hit a pothole at any speed.
- truckerzero 100 W
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
salt flats and set a record for hub motor electric bicycle sounds like fun ps you could weld some battery brackets and a place to put controller and hide it in a tail box like this lowracer
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- cv200512.jpg (45.83 KiB) Viewed 2831 times
ford explorer 12 mpg
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
- truckerzero 100 W
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Apr 09 2008 1:32pm
- Location: fenton ,mo (st louis suberb) USA
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
if done right and well hidden think you could convince a cop that this is just a very fast human powered bicycle ? lol
ford explorer 12 mpg
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
- truckerzero 100 W
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
oh ya were exactly do we draw the line between a electric bicycle and a electric motorcycle ? <30mph =bicycle >30mph = motorcyle or what
ford explorer 12 mpg
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
- lazarus2405 10 kW
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- Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
There is no line. Here we generally just distinguish based on the frame it's based on, just for simplicity. I think that, to be fair, anything using an x5 is a "motorbike".
- TylerDurden 100 GW
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
We uh... don't really. (Around here, anyway.)
That said, some jurisdictions will draw lines on speed, power, etc. Check your state and local laws.

That said, some jurisdictions will draw lines on speed, power, etc. Check your state and local laws.

Have a Nice Day,
TD

___________________________________________________________
FYI: Adding pictures?
Bored?... take a crack at the unanswered posts
Please post your Watts-at-speed in the survey.

TD

___________________________________________________________
FYI: Adding pictures?
Bored?... take a crack at the unanswered posts
Please post your Watts-at-speed in the survey.

Re: Aerodynamics thread?
The proper answer to most cops in the US is "20 MPH without pedaling on a flat", and under 750 watts.
Some states are different ( WA is 18 mph for some silly reason ).
Admit to going faster without pedaling or using a hill, and you legally have either a moped ( 30-35 mph limit depending on state ), or a motorcycle ( anything higher ).
Some states are different ( WA is 18 mph for some silly reason ).
Admit to going faster without pedaling or using a hill, and you legally have either a moped ( 30-35 mph limit depending on state ), or a motorcycle ( anything higher ).
Sun EZ-1 recumbent, Heinzmann 450W, 36V16A Ping "Duct Tape" LiFePO4
Evil Smoker ( Schwinn beach cruiser with 49cc two stroke, and a one gallon gas tank )
Evil Smoker ( Schwinn beach cruiser with 49cc two stroke, and a one gallon gas tank )
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
Some upright bikes by order of speed on road.
Downhill: Cruiser: Hybrid: Cross country: Touring: Road: Track: Note the general trend in saddle to bar drop, faster bikes generally have more of it and the slowest bikes have negative drop. Hybrid before the XC because the XC places the rider a lot better.
BTW, the blades on the BT go for ~3K each.
Downhill: Cruiser: Hybrid: Cross country: Touring: Road: Track: Note the general trend in saddle to bar drop, faster bikes generally have more of it and the slowest bikes have negative drop. Hybrid before the XC because the XC places the rider a lot better.
BTW, the blades on the BT go for ~3K each.
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- truckerzero 100 W
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
i must be one of the lucky ones in st louis mo except were there is a local law like arnold mo the state law is any 2 or 3 wheeled vehicle with 3 hp or less 50cc or less if gas and 30 mph or less is concidered a motorized bicycle and they have all the same rights as a bicycle like driving on the sholder and such the only differance is a motorized bicycle cannot drive on a pedestrian side walk and a regular bike can
ford explorer 12 mpg
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
pontiac sunfire 30 mpg
883 harley sportster 55 mpg
raze rc nitro buggy 196 mpg on 5% nitro methanol fuel
stryker electric rc plane 3.3 watts per mile@80 mph(too bad i cant ride on that thing)!!!
- paultrafalgar 10 kW
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
I knew I was on the right track! Me and BMW!paultrafalgar wrote:O.K. Let's brainstorm - Borrow a Quest or Mango (velomobile) spray with silicone to make a release material - lay a sheet of polyethylene film over it - spray on glue - stick a layer of bubblewrap to that - spray on glue - stick another sheet of polythene to that - allow to dry - cut lengthways - remove velomobile - duct tape the 2 halves together - swathe around own recumbent trike - fit tight fitting collar from neck to cockpit rim - inflate - Viola! One boil-in-a-bag cyclist!TylerDurden wrote:...paultrafalgar wrote:I've often wondered if you could make a fairing by having a double skin of, say polypropylene or polyethylene, and pumping it up to a high pressure. The weigh would be low and it would be rigid to promote lamellar flow. What d'ya think?
Inflatables can be quite strong, but I'm not sure they'd be any easier to DIY than rigid materials.
What d'ya think?

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A paranoid is someone who has SOME idea of what's going on. Allen Ginsberg(?)
If the greatest pleasure is giving, be selfish - give pleasure.
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
The speed record for human powered is 80 mph, so I think a 750 watt rule is fair. Such a machine would be totally impractical and dangerous (cars can't see you) so you wouldn't be able to use it for much, but for straight line speed that's the way to go.kbarrett wrote:The proper answer to most cops in the US is "20 MPH without pedaling on a flat", and under 750 watts.
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
Just do a Rollie Free. Strip down to your underwear and lay flat on your seat. I may just have to try this now that I have my C.A. to see a qualitative difference in the two riding techniques. 



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EV Bikes:
'13 Zero S 11.4kwh.
GS500, ME0913, Sevcon Size 6 Controller, 90v40ah Lipo, GSXR suspension..
'87 Hurricane 600, ME0709, 48v/50a SLA, Kelly KD72400, Magura Throttle, High Current Cycle Analyst.
http://www.evalbum.com/2275
Raleigh beach cruiser: 9C rear hub, stock controller, 48v10ah lithium, Cycle Analyst.
Phat Chopper: 9C front hub, stock controller, 48v12ah a123s, Cycle Analyst.
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
That is a No-com (No Compromises). They are $8,000 and, believe it or not, require some finishing to make them road worthy.truckerzero wrote:here is a picture of the type of low racer that could cut power consumption in half and dramaticly increas top speed what do you think?

The web master who hosts my bike build page has one. He is coming by this summer for a ride together. I told him I want to ride his No-Com! Heck, I let him ride my E-cumbent.

Those bikes average 5mph faster than a typical low racer with the same rider.
E X T R E M E L Y efficient!
Matt
1% of the world's population can think "Outside the box". The rest are firmly stuck within the box. Where are you?
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
How do you go up and down gutters/kerbs on all these recumbenty thingys? Can they manoeuvre through a tortuous pedestrian train crossing? I barely get through on my XC mountain bike..
And how do you weave through traffic when you are so low and can't see over the cars?
I love the idea of the improved aerodynamics...but I can't see them being practical in the real world, at least for me....am I completely wrong?
For me the ideal ebike is a downhill with grunt, and some bar ends so you can tuck
And how do you weave through traffic when you are so low and can't see over the cars?
I love the idea of the improved aerodynamics...but I can't see them being practical in the real world, at least for me....am I completely wrong?
For me the ideal ebike is a downhill with grunt, and some bar ends so you can tuck

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Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).
Powered by the sun

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
High recumbents are fine in the real world. Lowracers are the problem. You have to scout the ideal road before you ride it.
Matt
Matt
1% of the world's population can think "Outside the box". The rest are firmly stuck within the box. Where are you?
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
Just ride a short wheel base recumbent. Pretty easy to convert a 20" wheeled kids bike to one. Check out Tom Kabat's bikes at woodenbikes.com. I never had problems with traffic. What my bikes may lose in overall height (which isn't all that much) they make up for in length, weirdness, and by being painted bright yellow. People seem to give a wide berth like it's gonna bite them
The long wheel base is definitely tough to squeeze through in tight spots, but the short wheel base handles like a BMX bike.

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FS tandem serial hybrid SWB recumbent, 36v 12ah Makita, Kollmorgen, no35 GoKart chain
Dead:
Hyperion RC powered El Cheapo scooter
FWD LWB recumbent featuring 24v 300W Kollmorgen and office chair seat
Bottom bracket driven Motiv mountain bike 1kW, MY1018
E-Ton Eco folding electric bike, Keywin 36v 1kW
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
Amen. Note how my e-bike and my road bike (when on the hoods) are pretty similar in terms of drop from the saddle to the handlebars. I attempted to align these photos such that the wheels were level with the bottom of the image.Mathurin wrote:Some upright bikes by order of speed on road.
[...]
Note the general trend in saddle to bar drop, faster bikes generally have more of it and the slowest bikes have negative drop. Hybrid before the XC because the XC places the rider a lot better.
BTW, the blades on the BT go for ~3K each.


Re: Aerodynamics thread?
If you have to ask, you probably don't want a recumbent bike.And how do you weave through traffic when you are so low and can't see over the cars?
Low bikes are not so good for filtering-forward in traffic.
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Re: Aerodynamics thread?
True, but they are FAST!
Matt
Matt
1% of the world's population can think "Outside the box". The rest are firmly stuck within the box. Where are you?
Re: Aerodynamics thread?
Not sure if my bike is considered a low racer, but i sit the same height on my bike as a driver in a car.recumpence wrote:High recumbents are fine in the real world. Lowracers are the problem. You have to scout the ideal road before you ride it.
Visibility is excellent, eye to eye, ride height.
Riding trails on a weekly basis surprisingly had zero issues, naturally we cannot compete against moutain bikes in thier element.
Cars notice recumbents more i think because of thier weird shape, so your likely more safe on a bent bike.
And i never had to scout for ideal roads, the only problem that irritates me with a 7 foot long bike is maneuvering in hallways in an apartements.
Just clearing up any questions that may arise

Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike