Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

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Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby staldor » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:18 pm

Hi

After nervously listening to a partially squeaking wheel, is it a good idea to do some maintenance on these hub motors? Like adding lubricate on the gears? It may be that the source of the sounds is something else. I haven't really managed to localize the sounds. It goes off and on with some seconds pause.

Thanks for any advices in advance!
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby miro13car » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:43 pm

q 100 is what?
ebike , motor?
tell us more about your ride
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby d8veh » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:12 am

Is it a new motor, in which case it'll prably go away. I guess you've checked everything external like the disk brake.

It's not difficult to disassemble these motors. Remove the three screws and then insert much longer 6mm(?) screws to the same depth. Then you can use the long scews to rotate the sideplate anti-clockwise to screw off the side-plate. You'll probably need some way of levering them if the motor isn't new. The bearings are sealed, so not much to do there. Most likely the clutch:
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby schwibsi » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:34 am

Great pictures d8veh, thanks.

So, should you do someting to the motor, like some sort of a cooling solution?
Can you tell me, where in the pictures, you'd add a temperature sensor?
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby amigafan2003 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:01 pm

You shouldn't be feeding a Q100 enough watts to have to worry about temps ;-)
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby schwibsi » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:16 pm

Who's to say... I read something about soldering a shunt, which sounded quite intriguing
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby d8veh » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:01 pm

You can solder about 1/3 of the shunt, which gives about 17 - 18 amps. It doesn't get hot at that current, but if you go higher, stripped gears might come before high temperature. One of these motors with 12S lipos (actually 48v) and 17 amps goes really well.
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby schwibsi » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:18 pm

I have ordered two, which should come in tomorrow, or the day after. Fedex says, they left Cologne this morning.
Then I can take a look and make some pictures to ask exactly what to do where.
I understand I should also measure the impedance and adjust that with the solder.
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby schwibsi » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:40 pm

I just read on a German forum that somebody was having problems with his rear mount Q100 because of the spokes.
He was told in a bike shop that the holes for the spokes in the hub were too big for regular bicycle spokes but that they could use motorcycle spokes instead.
He ended up ordering the BMS rim and spokes.

Has anybody had similar experiences?
I'm looking to buy spokes and a rim right now, so I'd appreciate any answers
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby d8veh » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:17 pm

I buy nearly all my motors ready-built into rims by BMSBattery or Greenbikekit (same company it seems) and I've never had a problem. They sometimes don't do the spokes tight enough, although the last ones from GBK were good. They use 13G spokes.. I've built a couple of my wheels with their rims and spokes as well, and they also work well.
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby amigafan2003 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:41 pm

schwibsi wrote:I just read on a German forum that somebody was having problems with his rear mount Q100 because of the spokes.
He was told in a bike shop that the holes for the spokes in the hub were too big for regular bicycle spokes but that they could use motorcycle spokes instead.
He ended up ordering the BMS rim and spokes.

Has anybody had similar experiences?
I'm looking to buy spokes and a rim right now, so I'd appreciate any answers


Sounds like that bike shop was talking a load of crap.

I've built my wheel with 14g spokes and a regular Mavic A319 rim.. You can always use washers under the head if needed, but I didn't need too.

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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby casainho » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:35 pm

I just disassembled my motor (Q85/Cute85) using the instructions from d8veh (many thanks to d8veh), to try see if I can repair a faulty hall sensor. Seems it will be easy but I need to buy a compatible hall sensor(original hall sensor: AH61)! Here the picture of the inside of my motor:
Cute85 Q85 motor - 01.jpg
Cute85 Q85 motor - 02.jpg
Developer of OpenSource firmware for EBike BMSBattery S series / Kunteng KT motor controllers:
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby Ken Taylor » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:05 am

d8veh wrote: One of these motors with 12S lipos (actually 48v) and 17 amps goes really well.


Dynamometer data from avandalen shows the q85 gets saturated at 13 amps and is therefore likely to be inefficient and heating at 17 amps. See Figure 6 at http://blog.urremote.com/2013/01/a-stea ... -fast.html .
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby d8veh » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:19 pm

Ken Taylor wrote:
d8veh wrote: One of these motors with 12S lipos (actually 48v) and 17 amps goes really well.


Dynamometer data from avandalen shows the q85 gets saturated at 13 amps and is therefore likely to be inefficient and heating at 17 amps. See Figure 6 at http://blog.urremote.com/2013/01/a-stea ... -fast.html .

Interesting. With standard 15 amp controller and 36v LiFePO4, hill-climbing was poor and top speed about 17mph. After I soldered the shunt, and changed the battery to 12S lipos, it shows 17 to 18 amps on my Speedict. Hill climbing is now good and it'll hold 21mph even up slight hills with my 100kg on board. I'm talking about current from the battery. I often see 800- 900 wattes on the meter when climbing. My motor is the Q100, which is wider than the Q85.
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby Ken Taylor » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:03 am

d8veh wrote:
Ken Taylor wrote: My motor is the Q100, which is wider than the Q85.

The dynamometer data is for the Q85, it will be different for the Q100. If you don't know when it gets saturated there's a risk of getting into that region.

Your information on the BH Emotion Neo Range motors was useful. They are pretty and generating some interest in Australia at the moment. See http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... &p=18#r347 . I like the look of the Neo Race http://www.dolomitiebikes.com.au/bh-emo ... s/neo-race
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby d8veh » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:58 am

[quote="Ken TaylorYour information on the BH Emotion Neo Range motors was useful. They are pretty and generating some interest in Australia at the moment. See http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re ... &p=18#r347 . I like the look of the Neo Race http://www.dolomitiebikes.com.au/bh-emo ... s/neo-race[/quote]

Yes, they're nice bikes and very good climbers, but tell them on that forum not to believe that it has any Significant regen.

We figured out from some tests that The Emotion Neo series doesn't have any regen because it has a free-wheel in the hub. We spun the wheel and no regen happened, which is not surprising because the motor didn't turn. I'm sure that the bike has a controller and panel for regen, probably borrowed or developed from a DD motored bike, but it can't give anything significant. When you cut the motor, it takes a small time to slow down even though the free-wheel disengages it from the wheel, so you get a miniscule amount of regen each time you shut the throttle, but it's not enough to be of any use.

On a 35 mile journey, I got 0.05% regen - equivalent to 0.01aH

If your clutch sticks (not uncommon on a BPM) of course you'll get much more significant regen, but then you have a DD motor.
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Re: Hub motor maintanance (q100, q85)

Postby Ken Taylor » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:12 pm

d8veh wrote:... but tell them on that forum not to believe that it has any Significant regen.

I have several times, most recently here http://whrl.pl/RdqZp2
d8veh wrote:On a 35 mile journey, I got 0.05% regen - equivalent to 0.01aH

That's new and a lot of effort to test. Your previous advice didn't have that much detail.
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