Problem with PAS on infenion 48v30A

B

Boeckstyns

100 mW
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
42
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Hey there.

I just recently mounted a PAS on my bike in order to make it street legal-ish(Europe). But I'm having some issues with it.

It seems to bypass the 3-speed switch I have installed and only supply maximum output. It also has a lot of delay both in start-up and stopping when pedalling (a couple of seconds before activating the motor and a couple of seconds deactivating after I stop pedalling.) The throttle accepts the setting on the 3-speed switch.

I don't know much about electronics so I'm kind of lost as to why it acts like that. Help/suggestions much appreciated.
 
That seems to be how they work. I tried one once then gave up on it. Interested if you get any success
 
I've tried bikes with PAS that was engaged instantly. But what baffles me the most is that it doesn't disengage right away when I stop pedalling. Just keeps on going for a little while. Not very ideal since I don't use brake cut-off. And trying to stop a motor on what seems to be WOT isn't a pleasant experience in most situations I can think of...
 
You will find a little back pedalling helps to stop it instantly, but you have to remember to do it.

Paul a Emmissions Free sells a PAS controller. I have bought one but it is set up with plugs for use with his controllers, and I have not got one of his so the plugs will need re wiring, but as yet I a have not tested to see what does what.

Another alternative is the new Cycle Analyst V3
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=698008&e=698008
 
Damn. I just ordered a bunch from Paul...
Really I don't care about having PAS on the bike, but I installed a hidden switch on my bike that activates it in case I get stopped by the Blue Mafia. But as long as it overrules the 3-speed switch it doesn't really make any sense anyway as it goes to 1400w peak and 700w continuous. On the lowest setting at least it's only around 300w continuous. I figure that's close enough to the 250w limit.
Isn't there some sort of controller mod that would let the 3-speed be the boss of the PAS signal? On factory build legal ebikes that don't have a throttle it's like that. Must be possible somehow...
 
I did not try this , but wondered about the other ' speed ' function. I am referring to the speed limit setting and the default speed setting in the programming software.

Since the PAS overrides the 3 speed, I wondered if it overrode the Speed limit function too.
Have you had any of your controllers apart? There is a pad labelled SL. In the software there is a Speed Limit setting
Speed Limit is activated by shorting this pad to ground

So set the limit function to a low setting, and bring a pair of wires out the controller to a switch, one from ground, the other, the SL pad.
Make your hidden switch a two pole switch, so in one switch, you activate SL and also power up the PAS function. You could wire it so that turning on the PAS disables the throttle too. wire 5 volt in to the switch, one pole position out to PAS the other out to throttle, so only one or the other receives power
 
The controller isn't user programmable. I haven't had it opened up but it has the voltage limit plug coming out of it. With the voltage limit plug engaged PAS overrode that as well. The switch I mounted does engage the voltage limit and PAS and disengages the throttle. But as long as I can't find a way to limit voltage while PAS is on I can't really figure out what to do...
 
OK, so what make fo cobtroller is it?
If it is nto an Infidnon controller then all my mention of the SL pad is meaningless.

Have you tried to program it? how do you know it is not? Does the MCU have a red spot on it? If not then it is probably programable, Only way to find out is to wire up the data header connect to a RS232 to USB adapter, fire up XPD and try programming it.

If all that means nothing to you, then just tell us who you got the controller from, and maybe show us pictures of the inside of the circuit board, front edge along opposite the MOSFETS, both back and front of board.

BUT even if it is not programable, then that does not mean that the Speed limit function won't work
 
I'll post some pics. I'm pretty sure but not a 100% that it's an infenion Lyen. And yes when I wrote it's not a user programmable controller I meant that it's not wired for usb, I'll try wiring it up... And the speed limit does function but not when PAS is engaged.
 
If from Lyen then it is programable

Just because you may have wired the speed linit function pad to work, it may still not appear to function, as the level of the SL is set to whatever you want. By default it will be 100%
So if you can'tprogram and change its value you can t be sure it is not workin
 
Ah bugger..another theory bites the dust!¬! At least it saves me a job of trying it.

Best bet then will be Cell man from Emmissions free web site ( Paul) he sells a PAS control system..little handle bar clip on unit ..not sure how it will be wired though. I have one but not yet tried it.

or as I said earlier..get a Cycle analyst version 3
 
:D yeah I'm sorry to puncture all the theories. I guess I'll go with either CAv3 or paul.
I just hate to have to add stuff to a configuration when I have a feeling there must be a solution at the root. But a CA v3 I want anyways so I'll probably just get one of those.
Thanks a bunch for your effort Neil. Much appreciated!
Cheers
 
Maybe the3 solution is to create a better pedal assist module.

From what I remember of the PAS sender, it is either on or off..it does not supply a variable voltage like a throttle.

could the PAS sensor output be made enough/amplified to drive a relay..or transistor or MOSFET 'switch'
When not pedalling the switch is OPEN. When pedaling, the switch is closed.
Now route the variable output from the throttle via this switch.
So you could pedal as hard as you wanted and there would be no pedal assist till you opened the throttle.

Alternatively, use the PAS output as the throttle 5 volt input, so you only get throttle output while pedaling.

OK, so not true PAS, but it may at least give a variable PAS system
 
I've never seen a satisfactory PAS solution for a bike wih more power than 250w. They do exist because I've seen them. You need the panel (normally LCD) and its matching controller. If antbody knows where to get them from, I'd be interested. The PAS sensors give 5v pulses, so you can't switch anything directly, but you can use a small microprocessor like a PIC to readd the PAS and give throttle output according to a potentiometer setting. Can anyone do the code? The rest is simple.
 
Yes, sorry I did realise it pulsed.
My brain and thought process ran away with me and went ahead of the speed I was typing.
See my last post? First line....
I did not continue with that line of thought before I went on with the switch idea

I was thinking of a home made PAS sensor type system ... Not sure not thought it through much more, but a cam and slip clutch arrangement ... Something that pushes the magnet near the sensor while pedalling. So it goes hard on when pedals turn, hard off when pedal stops turnin
That was the thoughts i had in mind and then gor a bit carried away with the rest of the potential idea
 
d8veh said:
If antbody knows where to get them from, I'd be interested. .
Click to expand...

Check with Paul (cellMan)

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=41&product_id=104


Not sure if he actually know how to wire them himself, he told me he gets them pre wired for his controllers, so I will need to tinker with mine to work out the wiring on it.

Not tried it yet. the 36 volt bit is worrying thought..may need a DC -dc convertor first..shame


The PAS display enables the PAS assist level to be adjusted precisely giving much more control of the PAS function than you have when the PAS sensor is directly connected to the controller.

Includes pre-connected PAS display with matching PAS sensor for direct connection to the Infineon Controller.
Adjustable PAS assist levels.
PAS display works by detecting the PAS signal, interpreting it and outputting a throttle signal to the controller. This way, PAS the display can control the PAS assist level precisely, especially useful for fast, high powered ebikes, where the standard PAS sensor into the controller, often results in an all or nothing assistance level.
When combined with the 3 speed switch function on all EM3ev Infineon controllers, you have more adjustment possibilities than you will ever need.
Note: PAS display is for 36V operation only and is pre-wired for use with the EM3ev Infineon Controllers
Click to expand...

PAS%20Display%20and%20Sensor-500x500.jpg
 
d8veh said:
I've never seen a satisfactory PAS solution for a bike wih more power than 250w. They do exist because I've seen them. You need the panel (normally LCD) and its matching controller. If antbody knows where to get them from, I'd be interested. The PAS sensors give 5v pulses, so you can't switch anything directly, but you can use a small microprocessor like a PIC to readd the PAS and give throttle output according to a potentiometer setting. Can anyone do the code? The rest is simple.
Click to expand...


http://cnebikes.com/ProductShow.asp?ID=126

Do you mean like this?

http://cnebikes.com/UploadFiles/20121010213744745.jpg
 
i ran up the PAS controller from Paul today , on the bench, and it is really not much of an improvement over connecting the PAS direct to the controller.

It is not proportional, and has 4 speed settings.
Low, Med, High, and all three LED's lit.

BUT the unit DOES work in conjunction with the three speed switch. So if you have the controller 3 speed switch in slow, and the PAS controller in slow you can get a controllable speed,
The 6PKH button, just makes the bike run when the button is held in. no throttle or pedal needed.

If you connect the throttle to the PAS controller unit, then throttle does not work at all till you start pedaling, then throttle works..but bizzarely.
While you are pedalling the speed is what ever teh PAS controller button is set to LMH or full.
Open the throttle and keep pedaling and your speed stays the same as the setting on the PAS controller...but..now here is the weird bit, ...stop pedaling and the throttle gives you what ever speed you have the throttle set at..So if you have the PAS controller set in Low, but hold the throttle wide open, you stay at low speed..untill you stop pedalling..then you go Wide Open throttle..

Still need to back pedal to stop it though, same as if PAS is connected direct to the main motor controller
 
Plug with Pinout.

the PAS plug not shown, that should be obvious

Batt voltage input max 36 volt. It displays as a fuel gauge on the top row of LED's


IMG_1319.JPG
 
I also found out the PAS on the infineon controllers do not work as desired. I've also tried a speedict, that worked better, but not ideal.
In the end I made a pas controller with an arduino. Simple explanation: My throttle goes first through the arduino. Only when the arduino sees PAS pulses, it will pas on the throttle signal on to the controller.
 
How does the output work from the arduino? is it proportional to the pulses or just a fixed output?
 
Sounds great how is the delay? How long do it takes before the arduino pass the throttle signal when start padeling?
 
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