fixing a Daymak Gatto and mods

TedDBayer

10 mW
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
21
I have 2 Gattos that I picked up for cheap, with a new set of batteries. The bikes have 600 and 1400 kms. The bike didn't run so they bought new batteries and they got another for parts. I have wired houses and cars, but I don't know anything about circuit boards or testing (yet). I plan on checking all the wires and putting one bike together and see what happens. I have noticed that the better bike has a wire with a small black plug and the other bike has maybe a small diode plug in, about 1/4'' diameter, coming out of the controller. Any idea what that is?
It there different throttles that can be bought?
I have read about shunt mods, not sure if I will do it. I plan on adding another 20A battery is parallel, I'd like some more torque and range. It would be great if it was a little faster, but these things aren't something I want to do 70 on. The wheel says it's 700W. I had a similar scooter in China and loved it. It had a 3 power level switch.
>>>> Any other suggestions for mods.
EDIT: I call anything on 2 wheels a bike, all my motorcycles have been called bikes. I did not write ebike.
 

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TedDBayer said:
I have 2 Gattos that I picked up for cheap, with a new set of batteries. The bikes have 600 and 1400 kms. The bike didn't run so they bought new batteries and they got another for parts. I have wired houses and cars, but I don't know anything about circuit boards or testing (yet). I plan on checking all the wires and putting one bike together and see what happens. I have noticed that the better bike has a wire with a small black plug and the other bike has maybe a small diode plug in, about 1/4'' diameter, coming out of the controller. Any idea what that is?
It there different throttles that can be bought?
I have read about shunt mods, not sure if I will do it. I plan on adding another 20A battery is parallel, I'd like some more torque and range. It would be great if it was a little faster, but these things aren't something I want to do 70 on. The wheel says it's 700W. I had a similar scooter in China and loved it. It had a 3 power level switch.
>>>> Any other suggestions for mods.
Torque: Shunt mod or more voltage (which can mean a new charger and a new controller which can already have high A output)
Distance: More battery, be it parallel or series
 
FWIW, link to daymak gatto

http://www.daymak.com/manuals/Gatto072008.pdf

This forum has a lot of folks the build and modify bicycles with electric motors, so we may not have anybody reading at the moment that is a damak gatto expert and knows the plugs you ask about. But if you can give us some clear pictures of the controllers, lots of us might be able to give you pretty good guesses what they do.


Paralelling in more of the same voltage for more range will work, but it won't increase the speed or power. It might help a small bit, by lessening voltage sag under load. But no big increase unless you make changes to the controller to increase amps, or increase the voltage.

Higher amps controller, more power but similar top speed

Higher voltage controller, some more power, but mostly just higher top speed.

Higher voltage and higher amps controller, more power and more speed.

Bigger amp hours battery, no change but more range.
 
There is a supprisingly large amount of documentation on the current Gatto, but IIRC there was a version with a true hub motor. This currant version has a "motor on the hub" which is actualy a seperate chain drive motor thats bolted to the swingarm near the hub.

It would likely be easier to get more power out of the true hub motor, but both would likely take a good bit more power.


For more torque, you need more amps getting through the controller. Thas either going to need a new controller, or at a shunt mod. If your controller rarely gets hot, do the shunt mod. The worst that can happen is you screw it up, but if you were already considering replacing the controller, its a zero loss situation.

Those 12v20Ah batteries ain't cheap, and they are SLA, so they ain't too good either. Replace them with LiFePO4 at your earliest convienance. 48V20Ah of LiFePO4 would be worth almost double the range of 48V20Ah of SLA, at 1/3 the size 1/4 the weight.
Or better yet, go to 60 volts. That may need a new controller, but will boost speed and torque.

Find and remove the govoner. Seriously, who wants there bike to dictate what they can and can not do.

If the throttle is a Hall effect, then yes, with some possable adaptions being needed, a new throttle should be available.

the Diode on the end of the wire... thats hard to say. that might be a temp sensor for the batteries, or ir might be the govoner, or something else all together. the controller may have a lable that explains it. Pics would also help.
 
Firstly, that is not an eBike. it is an electric scooter. period. face it those pedals are purely decorative. do you even have them attached? or do you ride without. add to the the weight of the thing and you have an underpowered scooter.

a hub motor does not have any advantage over a geared motor. except that a hub is easier to use to retrofit to a normal bike. a hub is simpler using fewer parts, so it should be more reliable, but there is no power or torque advantage. and on chain/belt drives you have more flexibility. by swapping a a couple of sprockets you can change the drive ratio and tune the performance a little. with hubs you can't do anything.

Lithium batteries are great. but with the price that many Daymaks sell for, the lithium pack will equal the cost of the scooter. and if you are not satisfied with the speed/acceleration performance of the scooter to begin with, the battery is the last thing you should upgrade. those SLA's may sag but they can source a pile of amps for short periods. acceleration should not be an issue.

really, it is an underpowered wanna-be scooter. and the underpowered starts with an inadequate controller and an undersized motor for the scooter role. but through a perversion of the law it has pedals and only 500W so you could get away with calling it an ebike. which it isn't. but since you can't really pedal it, you have to walk it up hills.

All of the Daymak scooters i have serviced used a uber cheap Xiechang controller using 12X 75N75 mosfets. you can do the shunt mod, but given the crap quality you are starting with, you will only hasten the death of your controller. I would start by getting a decent controller. a 12 Fet Lyen or ebikes.ca/Crystalyte 35/40A should be adequate.

the motors are pretty standard Chinese scooter/Unite MY1020 style motors. higher torque replacements are available from many scooter parts stores like TNC Scooters. they have several 48V 1000W motors that will fit. you may need to modify the mount holes a little. i have fitted BMC/PowerPak 1000W motors on a couple of Daymak scoots. not sure if they were the Gatto, but they are all pretty similar.

killer problem here is that these parts cost as much as you paid for the Daymak in the first place. there is no way to hot rod one of these on the cheap. at least not and keep any kind of reliability. so if you are looking to make 50mph electric street cruiser cheaply by unlocking some hidden potential in your Daymak, your expectations would be unrealistic.

rick
 
If you haven't guessed already i really dislike these scooters calling themselves ebikes style contraptions. mostly because it confuses people as to what an ebike is.

locally there is talk about banning ebikes on the bike paths because of the buffoons ridding these scooter on bike paths creating all kinds of problems. this ebike ban on bike paths is already the rule in Toronto.

anyways. these Daymaks use very very cheap electronics. the motors are more reliable than the controllers. the controllers are extremely shoddy. it is not unusual to look at one where the copper traces have been burned right off of the board. without more information i would suspect the controller first.

buying an aftermarket controller is a bit of a risk. you need to make sure that it has the same big white square plastic connectors that the Daymak uses. Lyen can supply a controller that uses these. just make sure you specify them.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17683

even though the controller uses wire colors that match, you will likely need to change the order of the phase wires for this to work. this thread will give you an idea of how to do this.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484
from what i remember i only had to change the order of the phase wires. i did not need to change the hall sensor wiring. unless you are desperate don't go cheap on the controller. i will be the most important part of your repair for now.

as an option Lyen will add the connector for the 3position speed switch and a fancy meter called the "Cycle Analyst" that almost everyone loves.

as far as basic tests for controller and motor this should help:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21832&p=319708&hilit=+test+Controller+#p319708

Good luck
rick
 
picture of the wire and diode?
SAM_3914tn_.JPG
I had a 48v 20a scooter in China that I liked, the controler was 32A,
I picked up 2 Gattos with a new set of batteries for $300, I'll keep the batteries and I can buy a new controller or what ever I need. I see the contoller is 17A

thanks for replies, I couldn't find any testing links from google, i didn't know this forum was just for bikes
****I found this is a speed limiter
 
It's not just for bikes. But since bikes are easier to modify, we have more "bike" riders here than scooter type ebike riders reading the fourm daily.

Controller upgrades are generally step one for a hot rodding. Stuff like shunt soldering gets you some improvement, but not huge wattage gains. For that, more amps and more volts works well.
 
TedDBayer said:
picture of the wire and diode?

I had a 48v 20a scooter in China that I liked, the controler was 32A,
I picked up 2 Gattos with a new set of batteries for $300, I'll keep the batteries and I can buy a new controller or what ever I need. I see the contoller is 17A

thanks for replies, I couldn't find any testing links from google, i didn't know this forum was just for bikes

I'm sorry. i don't have anything against you, or generally even against the scooters. as long as the scooters stay off of the bicycle/multi-use paths scaring the pedestrians. this was a rant brought on by my recent bad experiences with scooter owners.

in your post you answered your first question yourself. your scoot in china has a 32A controller. while this one only has a 17A controller. that means that in china you had twice as much power on tap. small wonder it performed better. if you want similar performance here, you'll have to bite the bullet and get a similar sized controller.

there is not enough detail in your picture to tell anything about that "diode". maybe you could upload the picture as an attachment with higher resolution?

rick
 
for what I have invested in the scooter, buying a better controler is acceptabe. i guess the small box is trottle, don't other controllers have the trottle connection to the controller? I live rural, I'd like to get enough range to make it to town and back at a speed faster than walking. The shortest distance into town would be back roads. I'll keep the back wheel motor. The little ''diode'' is about 3/8'' in diameter, would it be a govenor? Markings are Chinese only
can you recommend a basic controller that will work with more amps?
my controls picture
 
I asked some local escooter dealer if they carry better controllers. They can order stock stuff, but these scooter have 600 and 1400kms on them and the stock controllers are done, why would I use those parts?
I was looking at Greenline controllers , 15X IRFB4410 current 45A and 12X 75nf75 fets current 30A. I read that 4410 is possibly better but the details are just to complicated for me to understand. With a 48V20A sla battery and a 700W wheel, what's the best choice ?, cause all I see is cooter will move, ugg.
I may add another 12v later. depends on how I find it runs.
 
TedDBayer said:
I asked some local escooter dealer if they carry better controllers. They can order stock stuff, but these scooter have 600 and 1400kms on them and the stock controllers are done, why would I use those parts?
I was looking at Greenline controllers , 15X IRFB4410 current 45A and 12X 75nf75 fets current 30A. I read that 4410 is possibly better but the details are just to complicated for me to understand. With a 48V20A sla battery and a 700W wheel, what's the best choice ?, cause all I see is cooter will move, ugg.
I may add another 12v later. depends on how I find it runs.
I recommend going for an 18fet 4410 50A controller. pretty much all greentime controllers with 100V parts (4410/4110) work to 24S lipo indefinately, so your 48V SLA will do fine. if you can figure out how to make the swap, and upgrade the power wiring.
 
ian.mich said:
TedDBayer said:
I asked some local escooter dealer if they carry better controllers. They can order stock stuff, but these scooter have 600 and 1400kms on them and the stock controllers are done, why would I use those parts?
I was looking at Greenline controllers , 15X IRFB4410 current 45A and 12X 75nf75 fets current 30A. I read that 4410 is possibly better but the details are just to complicated for me to understand. With a 48V20A sla battery and a 700W wheel, what's the best choice ?, cause all I see is cooter will move, ugg.
I may add another 12v later. depends on how I find it runs.
I recommend going for an 18fet 4410 50A controller. pretty much all greentime controllers with 100V parts (4410/4110) work to 24S lipo indefinately, so your 48V SLA will do fine. if you can figure out how to make the swap, and upgrade the power wiring.
I rewired that battery leads with 8 gauge, the controller seems easy to wire as long as the hall sensors match. I was thinking of using heavier wire for the motor, but don't really feel like opening it up. Are the sensor wires OK being thin? I ordered the 15x 4410 controller. I just want the thing to run decent, I don't care about breaking any land speed records.
I like the scooter, still training my Collie to ride with me. This is my Chinese GF on my/ now hers scooter and her Collie in China. Everyone drives these scooters in China, sometime with 4 or 5 people on them, dogs, or carrying 14 water jugs or 50 chickens. The GF is better looking pic.
 

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TedDBayer said:
ian.mich said:
TedDBayer said:
I asked some local escooter dealer if they carry better controllers. They can order stock stuff, but these scooter have 600 and 1400kms on them and the stock controllers are done, why would I use those parts?
I was looking at Greenline controllers , 15X IRFB4410 current 45A and 12X 75nf75 fets current 30A. I read that 4410 is possibly better but the details are just to complicated for me to understand. With a 48V20A sla battery and a 700W wheel, what's the best choice ?, cause all I see is cooter will move, ugg.
I may add another 12v later. depends on how I find it runs.
I recommend going for an 18fet 4410 50A controller. pretty much all greentime controllers with 100V parts (4410/4110) work to 24S lipo indefinately, so your 48V SLA will do fine. if you can figure out how to make the swap, and upgrade the power wiring.
I rewired that battery leads with 8 gauge, the controller seems easy to wire as long as the hall sensors match. I was thinking of using heavier wire for the motor, but don't really feel like opening it up. Are the sensor wires OK being thin? I ordered the 15x 4410 controller. I just want the thing to run decent, I don't care about breaking any land speed records.
I like the scooter, still training my Collie to ride with me. This is my Chinese GF on my/ now hers scooter and her Collie in China. Everyone drives these scooters in China, sometime with 4 or 5 people on them, dogs, or carrying 14 water jugs or 50 chickens. The GF is better looking pic.
Darn, the 15fet 4410 kinda sucks to set up because i found it can switch to sensorless unexpectedly. the 18fets only work with sensors. For the motor, you can replace the phases with 10 or 8g outside the motor axle, which should do nicely. inside is really only necessary if you're running something like > 100V 40A. the sensor wires already have an overkill wire gauge. As for the land speed record, the speed will remain exactly the same until you change the voltage.
 
[ This is a Greenline controller, what is there to set up???? I ordered 2 controllers. I didn't see any 18fets. I hope this scoot will run OK at 48/20, if I need more distance, then I'll add another battery. I live rural, need distance. Even if I could speed on this, there is little traffic.
 
I ordered the Greentime 15x 4410 48v ,maybe I should have ordered their 12x75nf75 fets as the connections look the same as my original controller. I think I understand how to wire this, but no wheel turning yet. My power to Conv. has 3 wires. I emailed Leo and he said to use red from red/purple to the power for ''on'' and yellow for my brakes, but that was wrong. I read the 21 pages of Greentime on this list and found the correct wire labels(page 19). The single purple is power to the plug, the red/purple are joined together. I had to change the controller plugs on the power and motor wires. The wheel will not turn with power. I thought I did feel resistance if I moved the wheel backwards, not now. My hal senors tested OK, Leo said I didn't need to worry about sensor wire order as long as power was correct, I tried all the motor phase combinations, no jerking or sign of anything working on the motor. My throttle doesn't show power, before it did. I tested the contoller and get a ''1'' reading and sometimes 1836 ohm. Is my meter broken or have I blown the controller? Would the controller just blow that easily? Or is this controller a dud? It would be nice if the controller came with a list of what each wire is.
I had ordered the 3 speed switch, wires red, black, green, and I think they go to controller wires blue, orange, black and not sure in what order. There is nothing in my wiring harness for this. The picture of the switch had the correct plug, the shipped switch has a tiny plug so I can't use it and extend the wires.
Can someone lend me a big sledge hammer? I bought a new throttle, controller, have new batteries, motor is OK and I can't get this to run.
 
Hello everyone I am new here and need help with a Daymak gatto 48v it will not go into 3 position to get to 32kmh it will only go 20 anyway to fix it ?
 
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