Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
Post Reply
User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 08, 2013 2:27 pm

Does anyone have the correct hall sensor connections for the Cromotor to a 24fet4110 Infineon controller?

Here is a video of the wheel spinning the right direction, but bad noise. :(

Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

User avatar
Ykick
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5944
Joined: Nov 26, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by Ykick » Mar 08, 2013 2:55 pm

What's the CA show for no load Amps? Anything more than a few would be indicative of wrong Hall/Phase combinations. I can't really tell for sure on your video but something sounds rough.

I recently figured out a 9C motor on an unknown color combo Inifineon without a tester. Best way for me was to write down the combinations attempted as I worked. It's actually not that hard and fairly intuitive once you visualize the combination patterns on paper. But don't flog it WOT until you know it's right as that can be a bad thing.
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

- Frank Sinatra

User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 08, 2013 3:34 pm

Ykick wrote:What's the CA show for no load Amps?
Not sure, will have to wait for a new 24Fet
Ykick wrote:But don't flog it WOT until you know it's right as that can be a bad thing.
Ya mean something like this, barely any throttle under load :shock:

Image

I know this doesn't mean much, but i did line up the colors on both ends :?
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

User avatar
jpgey
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 567
Joined: Jan 12, 2012 7:16 am
Location: France

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by jpgey » Mar 08, 2013 3:49 pm

Bad news Pete :cry:
I agree with Ykick, you had a wrong phase combination. I had the same issue and invert two phase solve the issue (hall color should match with Lyen controler).
I do not burn my controler, that mean this 24 fet cannot handle 300amps phase current.

If you have time i can try to fix your burned fets ?
I will be near the 9' arrondissement tomorrow.

User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 08, 2013 4:10 pm

jpgey wrote:Bad news Pete :cry:
I agree with Ykick, you had a wrong phase combination. I had the same issue and invert two phase solve the issue (hall color should match with Lyen controler).
I do not burn my controler, that mean this 24 fet cannot handle 300amps phase current.

If you have time i can try to fix your burned fets ?
I will be near the 9' arrondissement tomorrow.
I know, very sad...
I got the 24fet4110 from Cellman,
No load at 66V, was the video, then with load at 90V she blew the pre-charge 100A fuse under a little throttle, replaced fuse , dropped to 80V, right at connecting the positive from battery to controller, BIG POP :shock:,

Unfortunately won't be around tomorrow, I could send it to you later by La Poste if you want to work on it?

Thanks for the offer for tomorrow.

Pete
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

User avatar
Accountant
100 W
100 W
Posts: 192
Joined: Apr 10, 2010 11:16 am
Location: Zagreb,Croatia,EU
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by Accountant » Mar 08, 2013 5:14 pm

Hope this will prevent future problems.

Image


You need no more than 4 steps.

User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 08, 2013 5:36 pm

Thanks Accountant, has this been posted before on ES? We shall wait an see on the next controller. What expensive lessons :shock:
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

User avatar
Ykick
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5944
Joined: Nov 26, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by Ykick » Mar 08, 2013 5:56 pm

Accountant wrote:Hope this will prevent future problems.

Image


You need no more than 4 steps.
Wow, I woulda loved to see that last week. Thanks Accountant!

Pete - so sorry, I'll play a funeral lament for your 24 FET. Patience for now but get yer replacement up and working then repair the bad one to have a spare or build a 2nd bike with. It's really hard to just have one bike, LOL....

Really sorry to see that (great pic) but others may learn from your journey. Hang in there, should be a kickass bike when you get it all ironed out.
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

- Frank Sinatra

User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 08, 2013 7:30 pm

I appreciate your condolences :) So, the phase connections seem to be the culprit. Oh well, I'm just wondering if the 24fet 4110 would have been strong enough to handle the 24s (100V) setup? Maybe I should go with the 24fet 4115, higher voltage range on the 4115. hmmmm :roll:
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

zombiess
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3281
Joined: Feb 01, 2011 2:16 am
Location: Ventura

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by zombiess » Mar 09, 2013 1:24 am

I have noticed the Xie Chang boards (your board is most likely an EB224-AS-1) you can have a catastrophic FET failure by giving it too much power or even voltage if you have the wrong combination (done it myself before). When trying to find the correct combo it is always a good practice to reprogram the controller to a low amp setting. I use around 10A battery, 25A phase to help minimize damage. I also use lower voltage pack.

I know this is kind of late in the game to post this, but for a Xie Chang board the following is the correct order according to the board for future reference.

Controller: (phase letter is on bottom side of the board)
Phase A to motor phase Yellow
Phase B to motor phase Green
Phase C to motor phase Blue

Hall:
SA to motor hall Yellow
SB to motor hall Green
SC to motor hall Blue

Looking at the top side of the board with the processor closest to you:

Phase A = left
Phase B = middle
Phase C = right

5v = 1st from bottom
SA = 2nd from bottom
SB = 3rd from bottom
SC = 4th from bottom
Gnd = 5th from bottom

Sorry for your misfortune.

User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 09, 2013 5:54 am

Thanks for the infor Zombiess
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 09, 2013 5:57 am

A couple of pics of the blown fets, from what I can tell it looks like 5 fets

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

User avatar
Ykick
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 5944
Joined: Nov 26, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by Ykick » Mar 09, 2013 8:14 am

Nice pics Pete!

When I mentioned no WOT I was talking about no load spinning like you were doing in your video. Even a mild load, as you learned, can take FETs out in dramatic fashion. There probably should be (maybe there is I couldn't find much last week?) a sticky about phase/hall wire combinations, concerns and resolutions. Your photos and story might serve as good example material?

You'll get there, delay sucks for sure though!
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

- Frank Sinatra

John in CR
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13764
Joined: May 20, 2008 12:58 am
Location: Paradise

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by John in CR » Mar 10, 2013 5:58 pm

Getting the wiring combo right is easier than searching for the answer, and once you know how then it will new intimidate you again.

https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.p ... less_Motor

User avatar
wojtek
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1361
Joined: Nov 29, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: Luxembourg
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by wojtek » Mar 21, 2013 2:31 am

hi,

currently struggling with similar problem...

I have 2 cotrollers from Cell_man and one from Lyen.

Lyen + Cromotor = like to like.

Cellman + Cromotor - basically crossmatch between yellow and blue. So:
G-G
B-Y
Y-B

One cellman controller is working beautifully with this wiring. Another one - while engaging throttle, nothing happens. When trying to move the wheel any direction, it moves a bit and then blocks [cant turn any direction]

I changed the wiring to like to like. Still nothing, but when i turned the wheel, the wheel started to run on its own! with noise and "pulsing" every 2 seconds. I had to switch off the controller to kill it. [ebrake button didnt kill it.

Any tips please? thank You :)
WIRES AND CONNECTORS
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 31&t=30176
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=32244

KMX Cobra with Xlyte 5403
Go-One Evo with Cromotor
BATMOBILE - Astro 3220 / Nuvinci in progress
Giant CRS Alliance - yes, just pushbike! frock you..
3Element Espire - SOLD
Custom built Specialized BigHit with BBS02 - SOLD
Velokraft e-VK3 SOLD
Steintrike Mungo Sport HS3540-SOLD
Scorpion FS HS3540-SOLD
Kona Dawg BMC v2-SOLD

zombiess
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3281
Joined: Feb 01, 2011 2:16 am
Location: Ventura

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by zombiess » Mar 21, 2013 11:07 am

wojtek wrote:hi,
I changed the wiring to like to like. Still nothing, but when i turned the wheel, the wheel started to run on its own! with noise and "pulsing" every 2 seconds. I had to switch off the controller to kill it. [ebrake button didnt kill it.

Any tips please? thank You :)
I have had a similar issue but the motor ran smooth. The motor would run but only by starting the wheel moving, but no throttle response, no ebrake, just a slow ramp up for about 2 seconds, stop, repeat. Double check your hall sensor wires and phase wires for good connection.

It was caused by a corrupted flash from a hex edited version of the software I created (that had a wonky parameter I had never used before, cruising+error so that I could use the P3 LED to diagnose an issue). To fix it, you can try two things. Create new flash parameters from scratch (do not open a saved file) and flash it, use unmodified or known working flashing software such as XPD or Parameter designer.

This problem had me scratching my head for about an hour before I switched programming software and realized I had a bug I needed to squash. Since then all has been good. Strange part is it only happened on one controller and the others I flashed with the same file worked exactly as expected.
Last edited by zombiess on Mar 21, 2013 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
hjns
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1330
Joined: Aug 20, 2011 11:05 pm
Location: Basel, Switzerland

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by hjns » Mar 21, 2013 11:12 am

been there, done that, but with the 24FET methtek monster + cromotor.

Lessons learned for me when testing phase/hall combos:

- program CA for max 4A (max current at max speed under no-load)
- add a 5A fuse in line with battery
- only gently apply throttle for less than 1 sec at minimal load. If it doesn't work within that 1 sec, it is a wrong combo.
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

User avatar
wojtek
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1361
Joined: Nov 29, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: Luxembourg
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by wojtek » Mar 21, 2013 6:20 pm

thank You so much zobiess for your help! it does sound like my problem right now exactly...

could you possibly send me the software version you are using for infineon controllers? [podsada@gmail.com] - thanks a lot!

zombiess wrote:


I have had a similar issue but the motor ran smooth. The motor would run but only by starting the wheel moving, but no throttle response, no ebrake, just a slow ramp up for about 2 seconds, stop, repeat. Double check your hall sensor wires and phase wires for good connection.

It was caused by a corrupted flash from a hex edited version of the software I created (that had a wonky parameter I had never used before, cruising+error so that I could use the P3 LED to diagnose an issue). To fix it, you can try two things. Create new flash parameters from scratch (do not open a saved file) and flash it, use unmodified or known working flashing software such as XPD or Parameter designer.

This problem had me scratching my head for about an hour before I switched programming software and realized I had a bug I needed to squash. Since then all has been good. Strange part is it only happened on one controller and the others I flashed with the same file worked exactly as expected.
WIRES AND CONNECTORS
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 31&t=30176
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=32244

KMX Cobra with Xlyte 5403
Go-One Evo with Cromotor
BATMOBILE - Astro 3220 / Nuvinci in progress
Giant CRS Alliance - yes, just pushbike! frock you..
3Element Espire - SOLD
Custom built Specialized BigHit with BBS02 - SOLD
Velokraft e-VK3 SOLD
Steintrike Mungo Sport HS3540-SOLD
Scorpion FS HS3540-SOLD
Kona Dawg BMC v2-SOLD

User avatar
wojtek
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1361
Joined: Nov 29, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: Luxembourg
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by wojtek » Mar 25, 2013 4:03 am

Dear Jeremy,

i reflashed the controller and it does work now!!! :) thanks a lot for your help.

it goes smoothly!

However the reverse gear doesn't work. Strangely it is the second controller from Cell_man with this problem. I dont see me doing anything wrong - matter of pressing the button.
I dont think it is about wrong phase/hall wiring :?:

EDIT: i put the EBS to 2 but the regen was really brutal at 75v, changed to level 1 but cant really see any difference. the wheel blocks when breaking at higher speeds.. Does anyone knows what the regen voltage should be set up for using 66v lipo nominal [75v max] with this controller? thank You
WIRES AND CONNECTORS
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 31&t=30176
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=32244

KMX Cobra with Xlyte 5403
Go-One Evo with Cromotor
BATMOBILE - Astro 3220 / Nuvinci in progress
Giant CRS Alliance - yes, just pushbike! frock you..
3Element Espire - SOLD
Custom built Specialized BigHit with BBS02 - SOLD
Velokraft e-VK3 SOLD
Steintrike Mungo Sport HS3540-SOLD
Scorpion FS HS3540-SOLD
Kona Dawg BMC v2-SOLD

zombiess
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3281
Joined: Feb 01, 2011 2:16 am
Location: Ventura

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by zombiess » Mar 25, 2013 11:08 am

wojtek wrote:Dear Jeremy,

i reflashed the controller and it does work now!!! :) thanks a lot for your help.

it goes smoothly!

However the reverse gear doesn't work. Strangely it is the second controller from Cell_man with this problem. I dont see me doing anything wrong - matter of pressing the button.
I dont think it is about wrong phase/hall wiring :?:

EDIT: i put the EBS to 2 but the regen was really brutal at 75v, changed to level 1 but cant really see any difference. the wheel blocks when breaking at higher speeds.. Does anyone knows what the regen voltage should be set up for using 66v lipo nominal [75v max] with this controller? thank You
I figured reflashing would do the trick. I posted an updated version of the software I gave you in my controller for sale thread if you want to download the latest version. I squished one last bug that prevented the setting of phase amps at 30A, the version you have only allows 35A minimum due to an error I made in hex.

For reverse you need to ground the X3 pad. I've never seen the X3 pad hooked up on any controller, but if you want to reverse the speed of the motor, this is the pad that will do it. You also need set the "converse" or "reverse" speed setting in the software. This setting is a percentage, just like the Speed1 to Speed3 settings.

User avatar
pucksterpete
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 324
Joined: Apr 15, 2011 11:11 am
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by pucksterpete » Mar 26, 2013 4:48 pm

Little update, I recently sent the controller to Jpegy in Paris, he was very kind enough to take a look at it and see if he can fix it. He has ran into a little snag, maybe someone on ES might be able to lend a hand. Here is a PM I just received from Jpegy
Hello Pete, bad news: not only some 4110 are burned but also some surface mount components (at least a transistor and a capacitor).

I hope that Lyen will read the thread and give some help (I need the exact component reference), will see

JPGEY
Any help would much appreciated.

Pete
Optim Alp Hardtail with MXUS Motor
20S 2P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed 38mph tops :)
Hyena Special
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 97#p585997
-------
Excelsior/Strong GTS with Cromotor
24S 3P Turnigy 5.0 Hard Case
Top speed so far 53mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=46993

zombiess
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3281
Joined: Feb 01, 2011 2:16 am
Location: Ventura

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by zombiess » Mar 26, 2013 7:01 pm

In my personal experience, once the board is toasted this badly I've found it's easier to transfer everything over to a new board (build a new controller). That is unless the person doing the repairs is quite skilled and sure the repair is correct and will not blow up FET's again. I'm not the most patient or skilled electronics repair person though.

I've done a few repairs on these controllers for myself and others after hurting some surface mount stuff but no longer spend much time on fixing them if fried badly.

I do have open boards here with visible components so if your friend needs detailed pictures of anything please let me know what sections and I will try to help him out.

johnnyz383
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 313
Joined: Jul 28, 2013 6:23 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Hall Sensor Connections 24fet4110 Infineon / Cromotor

Post by johnnyz383 » Apr 04, 2015 1:51 pm

zombiess wrote:In my personal experience, once the board is toasted this badly I've found it's easier to transfer everything over to a new board (build a new controller). That is unless the person doing the repairs is quite skilled and sure the repair is correct and will not blow up FET's again. I'm not the most patient or skilled electronics repair person though.

I've done a few repairs on these controllers for myself and others after hurting some surface mount stuff but no longer spend much time on fixing them if fried badly.

I do have open boards here with visible components so if your friend needs detailed pictures of anything please let me know what sections and I will try to help him out.
Any idea on how to repair a Lyen 18 fet controller that stopped working because the phase wires shorted to my axle?...there is only .7 volts between the red and black throttle wires...

John

Post Reply