19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Duncan75 » Dec 06 2018 6:22pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Dec 06 2018 5:06pm
no, a 24" bicycle rim has about ~20" bead seat diameter not 19".. to fit a 24" bike rim you would need a denzel ebike tire 24x3 or a vintage 20" motorcycle tire (expensive and hard to find bc no longer in production).. if you already have a 19" moto rim then there are no bicycle tires to fit that and they wouldn't last under motor power if they did fit.. what is your objective, what bike is it for and how much power??
A Mxus 5k in a 19" rim is on its way to my house so I need a tire for it, I have one 24X3 Berm Master lying around and thought I might ask if it would fit.
I'll figure something out.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by macribs » Dec 13 2018 11:48pm

That will be one heavy rear wheel, the weight alone kind of dictate the tire choices. You need the added layers and stronger side walls from a motorcycle/mx tire to have a longer tire life. I know some will say you save weight by choosing bicycle tire, but as heavy as your wheel is already the weight savings from choosing a light weight bicycle tire over a mx tire is nothing. Your bike will not handle any better, because the weight is already there in the motor, rim and spokes.

mc/mx tires gives you more peace of mind, less chance to fail, imho go for the higher quality tire that will last longer, have better puncture resistance and much stronger side walls. For a more comfy ride, try to find a tire with "more walls" and ride with tire pressure just a bit on the low side.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Dec 26 2018 12:41pm

Should I even consider wider tyre than 3'' for 18'' 1.6'' rim? Is 3/3.25/3.5 too heavy for qs 205 3kw 9kv hub? Mitas H03 2.75'' width is actually 76mm on 1.6'' rim and looks like toy. I don't like how 2.75'' (76mm) looks and feels on 18'' rim.

Which of bellow tyres are not overkill for such big rim like 18''? For 16 rim I would diffidently go with 3.25 or 3.5, but i need advice regarding 18'' rim.

DURO HF333 3.0-18
Kenda K262 3.0-18

Mitas H03 3.25-18
Kenda H06 3.25-18

Mitas H03 3.5-18
DURO HF308 3.5-18
Kenda K270 3.5-18
Kenda K280 3.5-18
Kenda H06 3.5-18
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by amberwolf » Dec 26 2018 1:08pm

minde28383 wrote:
Dec 26 2018 12:41pm
Should I even consider wider tyre than 3'' for 18'' 1.6'' rim?
How big a contact patch do you need?

How wide is the frame or fork where the tire goes thru?

How thick a tire do you need for wear / puncture resistance?

Is 3/3.25/3.5 too heavy for qs 205 3kw 9kv hub?
How much torque does your overal system have?

How heavy is the total bike plus rider plus anything else attached to it?

How quickly do you need to accelerate?

Then you can figure the difference between the bigger tires' weight and the smaller ones, vs the total weight of the system, and see if it actually makes any significant difference to the system.

If it does, then you can determine with those two weights and the torque available how quickly it can accelerate, and then compare that to your needs.


You can also use the difference in weight between the two wheel/tire combos to figure out the difference in suspension performance.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Dec 26 2018 1:47pm

minde28383 wrote:
Dec 26 2018 12:41pm
Should I even consider wider tyre than 3'' for 18'' 1.6'' rim? Is 3/3.25/3.5 too heavy for qs 205 3kw 9kv hub? Mitas H03 2.75'' width is actually 76mm on 1.6'' rim and looks like toy. I don't like how 2.75'' (76mm) looks and feels on 18'' rim.

Which of bellow tyres are not overkill for such big rim like 18''? For 16 rim I would diffidently go with 3.25 or 3.5, but i need advice regarding 18'' rim.

DURO HF333 3.0-18
Kenda K262 3.0-18

Mitas H03 3.25-18
Kenda H06 3.25-18

Mitas H03 3.5-18
DURO HF308 3.5-18
Kenda K270 3.5-18
Kenda K280 3.5-18
Kenda H06 3.5-18
since its for an electric vehicle I would err towards lighter weight and lower rolling resistance with the narrowest tire that will meet your traction needs, for best "fuel" efficiency.. also consider which other motorcycles run the tires stock that you are considering or similar.. does your bike match the power to weight of those using your tire potential options?? if not then more weight and traction than can be utilized could just be extra drag and waste energy.. now if your trying to ride up and down stairs or rocky trails with a heavy hub motor and you can fit a 3.25 wide tire then it may be worth the efficiency loss for the added air cushion for the hub motor.. but tire width should also be correlated with rim width.. so if you want 3"+ tire width better to also increase rim width to next size 1.85 rim width, but now this wider rim to match the tire width will also add even more weight..
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Dec 26 2018 4:01pm

Hi amberwolf,

my fork is DIY so basically i can install tire as wide as axle width, up to 150mm or up to 160mm with washers so fork is not the limit for tire choice. I'll try to mention few things which might play some role.

Regarding tire wear. I never found it to be a determinant on any transport. Maybe it is because I don't cover long distances. Soft rubber or middle softness rubber. I would definitely not enjoy hard compound as it would not add confidence on speed leaning which I enjoyed from childhood. As long as it can run on road and off road I'm happy. 40/60 or 60/40 or similar referenced tires like universal or dual purpose tires, any road tyres. I avoid dirt motocross tires as these must be noisier and has bigger rolling resistance.

Regarding contact patch. I'll stick with what happens to be. I saw some riders do 3.5'' tire with 1.6'' 1.7'' rim thus these two not so compatible parts lessens contact patch as it makes tire more round than it suppose to be with wider rim, but less psi might increase contact patch. I can't say much about contact patch, I never though in depth about it; slight difference would not deter me from using one or another tire. For now it is not a factor for me. It might be negligible so that I even had no change to think about it yet. When when you mentioned it, I think one needs to have few wheels with different tires to find difference.

Mostly care about:
plush ride for gravel, path holes, grass fields, parks, forest trails. But tire be stil ok for asfalt up to ~45mhp
70km/h and seldom 55mph.

Speed cornering and plushness are two things hard to have both good at the same time. I don't want to overthink. But want to choose wisely as once installed on rim there is no option to return the tire as it is already used item.

Want to find out from others experiences if 3.5'' and 18'; is plausible or is it something what should be avoided as it is known error ie two incompatible things taking into account increased wheel diameter and addition tire weight.

Regarding punctures. Why not use slime? If tire gets punctures put slime, pump it, and forget it or fix it when back home. I put slime before hand and don't wary about punctures.

Regarding how much torque overall system have has. It's standard stuff, nothing fancy. On max settings it may have up to 190Nm at axle, ~50kg of some initial thrust. Controller can be set up to things get not efficient. No ferofluild or other air or liquid cooling in plans.

How quickly I need to accelerate? ~190nm ~50kg or ~70kg thrust is what it is, I prefer it to be at the very top limit. Therefore should I take care installing 3.5'' tire on 18'' rim or it's no go option, as initial 190Nm on axle with 640 diamter wheel and heavy rubber will get boring and heat generating.


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frequent second occupant - 25kg
rear 18'' rim
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Dec 26 2018 4:11pm

who runs qs 205 9kv with 3.5'' and mc18''
who runs qs 205 9kv with 3.25'' and mc18''
wouldn't mind share photo? what tyre model? All good with such big heavy rear wheel?
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by litespeed » Dec 26 2018 11:53pm

I wanted a 18” wheel but I got a great deal on a 3.5T in a 17” rim with a matching 19” front. I run a 3.00 Shinko 241 tire on the rear and a 2.75 on front. Bigger is always better. I wanted to run a 3.5 with a 18” rim........

Go with a 3.00 minimum or better yet 3.50 if it will fit!

Tom
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Rix » Dec 27 2018 10:33am

Very nice looking set up Litespeed.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Dec 27 2018 1:01pm

Thank you for pic.
3.5T is fast and has even little bit more copper than 9kv or 11kv. I bet you can reach high speeds; even in 17'' rim.
I've seen few bikes with mc fenders but this fender looks like it is made for the bike.
I see you got radiators around the hub. Was high temps an issue before installing them or you installed them from the beginning? FF is also inside the hub?

Maybe no one actually is running qs205 9kv with 18'' and 3.25'' or 3.5''.
Seems like 3'' tire is tops what people put on 18'' rim.

I'll go to inspect DURO 3,00-18 (47P) TT HF333 at my local place. Maybe I'll like it.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by litespeed » Dec 28 2018 3:55pm

I originally wanted a 4T but got an excellent deal on this combo. My bike will easily get into the mid 70 mph range. It’s actually a bicycle fender I just have never painted it.i put the Hubsinks and ferrofluid on early as I have heated hubs up before. It keeps my hub nice and cool and lets me use all of the 45 amp battery pack I have on the bike.....20s15p 30Q. It’s a monster power bike.

Very few 17” trials tires in 3.50 and the Shinko 3.00 I have is just an excellent all around tire. Never wanted for more traction or a smoother riding tire. That is one of the reasons why I haven’t changed to a 3.50 tire from another manufacturer....this one is just that good.

Again, if you can find a 3.25 or 3.50 tire I’d try it. The Shinko 241 3.00 is actually almost 3.5” wide and the 2.75 on front is about 3.2 inches wide both at about 18 really comfortable psi.

Tom
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by litespeed » Dec 28 2018 4:00pm

Rix wrote:
Dec 27 2018 10:33am
Very nice looking set up Litespeed.
I owe the a lot of the excellent handling characteristics to your research on the tires. The Shinko 241’s are the shit!

Appreciate you doing that for the rest of us.

Thanks for the kind words. I’ll tell you a 14KW bike that weighs in at 125 lbs with all that squishy travel, silent and all stealthy definitely makes me rethink how cool all my past gas bikes were including my fav which was my DRZ400.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Dec 28 2018 7:28pm

litespeed wrote:
Dec 28 2018 4:00pm
Rix wrote:
Dec 27 2018 10:33am
Very nice looking set up Litespeed.
I owe the a lot of the excellent handling characteristics to your research on the tires. The Shinko 241’s are the shit!

Appreciate you doing that for the rest of us.

Thanks for the kind words. I’ll tell you a 14KW bike that weighs in at 125 lbs with all that squishy travel, silent and all stealthy definitely makes me rethink how cool all my past gas bikes were including my fav which was my DRZ400.

Tom
+1 on the shinko 241..
I'm running 241 2.75 width front and 3.0 rear on 1.6 rims motoped mid drive..
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http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Rix » Dec 29 2018 7:49pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Dec 28 2018 7:28pm
litespeed wrote:
Dec 28 2018 4:00pm
Rix wrote:
Dec 27 2018 10:33am
Very nice looking set up Litespeed.
I owe the a lot of the excellent handling characteristics to your research on the tires. The Shinko 241’s are the shit!

Appreciate you doing that for the rest of us.

Thanks for the kind words. I’ll tell you a 14KW bike that weighs in at 125 lbs with all that squishy travel, silent and all stealthy definitely makes me rethink how cool all my past gas bikes were including my fav which was my DRZ400.

Tom
+1 on the shinko 241..
I'm running 241 2.75 width front and 3.0 rear on 1.6 rims motoped mid drive..
Natias,
Post a picture, would like to see what you are riding.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Dec 29 2018 8:48pm

Rix wrote:
Dec 29 2018 7:49pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Dec 28 2018 7:28pm

+1 on the shinko 241..
I'm running 241 2.75 width front and 3.0 rear on 1.6 rims motoped mid drive..
Natas,
Post a picture, would like to see what you are riding.
I bought three motoped frames on sale back during their kickstarter campaign ..
have them all three built: one fitted for street, one for dirt, and one dual sport..
they well replaced my old moped, pit bike, and big bike .. half the weight and built by me to suit my riding (and budget).. got cited $100 for unregistered vehicle even though I was riding out on the mtn jeep trails not in town.. so working on titling and registering the bikes for street legal and currently have ice fitted for inspection (and range).. gave my oset to friends that have kids, they love the bike and ride it often.. may take the seat strut off one of the motopeds and see if I like it for technical trail trial riding..
some ride & sk8 videos:
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http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Rix » Dec 30 2018 11:31am

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Dec 29 2018 8:48pm
Rix wrote:
Dec 29 2018 7:49pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Dec 28 2018 7:28pm

+1 on the shinko 241..
I'm running 241 2.75 width front and 3.0 rear on 1.6 rims motoped mid drive..
Natas,
Post a picture, would like to see what you are riding.
I bought three motoped frames on sale back during their kickstarter campaign ..
have them all three built: one fitted for street, one for dirt, and one dual sport..
they well replaced my old moped, pit bike, and big bike .. half the weight and built by me to suit my riding (and budget).. got cited $100 for unregistered vehicle even though I was riding out on the mtn jeep trails not in town.. so working on titling and registering the bikes for street legal and currently have ice fitted for inspection (and range).. gave my oset to friends that have kids, they love the bike and ride it often.. may take the seat strut off one of the motopeds and see if I like it for technical trail trial riding..
I knew you would have something like a tricked out motoped in your arsenal. If I ever own another ICE bike, the motoped with a Lifan 150 and all the porting the cylinder can handle and an oversized carb and top of the line MTB suspension will be call of the day.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by minde28383 » Mar 14 2019 11:58am

Merlin wrote:
Aug 25 2016 3:57am
yup, cut them off. but first install all spacers on the axle you need to bring your brake/disc running.
after that, center the rim (without tire its easier) + WITH the vbrake tab you can center it twice as easy.

when you rim is centered, you can probably let the vbrake tabs. i had similar "problem" on my old trekking bike.
it works(with vbrake tabs), but you have to flat the tire complete to squeeze the wheel out.

i have no measurements about the height or width, but here are some weights from 17 and 19 inch tires.

Continental KKS 10

2.00 x 19 ---------- 1215g
2.25 x 19 RF ------ 1610g

2.00 x 17 -----------1102g
2.25 x 17 RF -------1378g
2.75 x 17 RF -------1597g


Heidenau K34

3.00 x 19 ------------ 3540g


Michelin M62 Gazelle(all RF)

2.25 x 17 ------------ 2210g
2.50 x 17 ------------ 2335g
2.75 x 17 ------------ 2750g
3.00 x 17 ------------ 3060g



Image

Image

M62 3.0 17 vs K34 3.0 19
Image
It is nice to find info. I was interested about Michelin M62 Gazelle(all RF)
3.00 x 17 and I see it weighs - 3060g. Seems heavy, but maybe not that bad.
My local source sells 16 and 18 inch tires mostly. For 17 inch tire only few options in 3 inch width. On the other hand 17 x 2.75 are a lot to choose of. I have found that 2.0 - 2.75 are mostly dedicated for light moped and are lighter.

It's a pitty that old pics disapare in many posts because third party services just removes them (some pics are linked, from outside of the forum).
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Mar 14 2019 1:23pm

Most of you tried few options already. Some tried almost every wheel possible.

Considering to run one of these, leaning towards 17''. Both rims 1.6'' width.

16'' rim with 90/90 tire
17'' rim with 80/90 tire

Both wheels have almost identical diameter ~470mm. Let's pretend that diameter is equal. Except 16'' is little bit wider, 17'' narrower but taller. Do you see any practical benefit by using one over the other (not talking into account accessible tire variety)?
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Rix » Mar 15 2019 12:31pm

if weight is the same, the 17 will have less rolling resistance, even though it would hardly be measurable given the PSI was the same in both tires. There would be a noticable difference in the weight of the rim, a 17x1.40 rim is about 6-8 oz lighter than a 16x1.60 rim generally speaking.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Mar 15 2019 8:21pm

Regrding rolling resistance:
I think too that rolling resistance might play biggest role between these two small, almost identical outer diameter wheels, but one wheel being slightly wider. As you said it: ''would be hardly measurable''.

Regarding Rim:
It does make noticeable difference if you weigh bare rims, but if you take into account whole hub motor wheel weight than it makes negligible difference.
If 17'' 1.6'' compared to 17'' 1.4'' sheds off only 230grams (~8oz) than you save only 8oz (230g) which makes ~1.35% of rear wheel weight. I would say no difference in handling, nor you ever will notice 8oz in rear wheel, considering your wheel is already 16kg-17kg. I would say there is no noticeable difference what rim you use out of these two 17'' 1.4'' / 17'' 1.6''. Unless you take off slightly off a rim ~230g,
use lighter tire by ~1000g,
possibly thinner spokes,
skinnier tube sheds additional - 200g

Even after all these weight savings you save only between 5% up to 10% which is ranges from 850g up to 1700g in total wheel weight. Dropping off up to two kg can start to be noticeable, but it means having skinnier wheel. I'm after making it look more moped so I rather keep 1.6''. I'm dissuading my self from getting these 3kg tires. I'm lying my eyes on Sava MC 3.25''x16'' but I suspect them to be too big balloons.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Rix » Mar 15 2019 10:10pm

minde28383 wrote:
Mar 15 2019 8:21pm
Regrding rolling resistance:
I think too that rolling resistance might play biggest role between these two small, almost identical outer diameter wheels, but one wheel being slightly wider. As you said it: ''would be hardly measurable''.

Regarding Rim:
It does make noticeable difference if you weigh bare rims, but if you take into account whole hub motor wheel weight than it makes negligible difference.
If 17'' 1.6'' compared to 17'' 1.4'' sheds off only 230grams (~8oz) than you save only 8oz (230g) which makes ~1.35% of rear wheel weight. I would say no difference in handling, nor you ever will notice 8oz in rear wheel, considering your wheel is already 16kg-17kg. I would say there is no noticeable difference what rim you use out of these two 17'' 1.4'' / 17'' 1.6''. Unless you take off slightly off a rim ~230g,
use lighter tire by ~1000g,
possibly thinner spokes,
skinnier tube sheds additional - 200g

Even after all these weight savings you save only between 5% up to 10% which is ranges from 850g up to 1700g in total wheel weight. Dropping off up to two kg can start to be noticeable, but it means having skinnier wheel. I'm after making it look more moped so I rather keep 1.6''. I'm dissuading my self from getting these 3kg tires. I'm lying my eyes on Sava MC 3.25''x16'' but I suspect them to be too big balloons.
I agree with you on all accounts, however, I want to throw out one possibility just as food for thought. Yah, the 8oz or so wont be noticable as far as unsuspended mass and performance related with suspension, but that weight increase is all located away from the center of the wheel. It may give you more flywheel and gyroscopic affect. On my Bomber, I ran both 18x1.85 and 18x1.40 MC rims with the same tire on the rear. When riding on pavement at high speed, I noticed my Bomber was harder to turn and lean with the 18x1.85, in other words, it took more effort at the bars with countersteering, and would standing up easier coming out of a corner. That said, the 18x1.85 was almost 2 pounds heavier than the 18x1.40 where as you are looking at a 1/2 pound difference. That said, it may not be an issue.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Jamil.Siddiqi » Apr 02 2019 5:10pm

Hi,

I changed from 26" MTB to 21" MC rims and tires. What I noticed is the huge difference in weight (~ 5kg per wheel, with rims, tubes and tires ) and also the reduced top speed. I was previously able to do about 70 kmh on a slight downhill, which is now down to 60-65kmh. I have the Shinko 244 (2.75 x 21), which are indeed quite wide. They look really cool (with a Lauf Carbonara fork).

Interestingly the average speed increased, since I can just go over small obstacles instead of going around them. With that the range has gotten less by 10-20% (1.5KW hub motor 14S8P - going to upgrade to 26S shortly). I usually ride 30-40km.

I would like to go a bit lighter and am hence considering 18" or 19" MC wheels (I build them myself). Most of the Conti tires listed above are only rated for 50 km/h, hence that will not work. The RF tires are good for 100 kmh, hence I might give them a try. I was also considering the Heidenau K40 or M3 tires. Does anyone have experience with Heidenau? Specifically the weights and rolling resistance (I presume the Shinko 244 have a horrible rolling resistance). The K40 should be fast for street use, but is only available in 18". I am not sure if I want to go from 21" to 18" (seems small).

Since I actively pedal, I would need a larger chainring when I go to smaller tires. I can do about 55kmh with my 52T. I found an 85T 130 BCD chainring for folding bikes. Does anyone have experience fitting something like that?

Best regards
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by SlowCo » Apr 02 2019 6:16pm

Jamil.Siddiqi wrote:
Apr 02 2019 5:10pm
Hi,
Hi, nice bike but tell us more about the kit car with hub motors :shock:
Do you have a build thread somewhere? Then please post a link to it 8)

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minde28383   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 489
Joined: Apr 02 2010 7:11am

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Apr 03 2019 5:32am

mc 19'' is almost like bicycle 24 wheel. 18'' mc wheel little bit smaller.
These Heidenau weight don't know but I think in 2.75'' weight won't be much different from Mitas, Sava tires HC7 H03. Sometimes 3.0 width tire is quite wider and heavier if it is dedicated for motorcycle rear wheel compared with 2.75 tire dedicated for front/rear.
Check these, maybe you will like:
Mitas/Sava HC7 2.75 18'' ~79mm width on 1.6 rim (very nice, for asphalt)
Mitas/Sava H03 2. 75 18'' ~74width mm on 1.6 rim (universal, classic tire)
Mitas/Sava H02 2.5 19'' (classic similar to HC03)

"Most of the Conti tires listed above are only rated for 50 km/h, hence that will not work. "
Maybe these are 2ply tires, light. If you can find them wide enough they might work considering them should be stronger than bicycle tires.
ebike build in progress
CN 5.5kw scooter (on sale)
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (on sale)

Jamil.Siddiqi   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Mar 19 2019 1:20pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Jamil.Siddiqi » Apr 03 2019 10:59am

Thank you for the feedback.

No thread on the car yet. It is based on an Ultima Can AM kit, converted to electric. I have 4x QS 8KW motors in it which do 19KW peak each at 72V (planning to run it at 96V. I have the corresponding Kelly Controllers for it.

Thx

Jamil

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