19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by LSBW » Dec 26 2013 6:14pm

m52 power! wrote:It seems to me the weight increase would SUBSTANTIALLY increase the power to spin at speed and greatly reduce your distance and top speed... Has anyone calculated it?

LOL. Cromotor with 16" Pirelli's. I'd say couple lbs less or more won't make any difference, when you're running setups with 5 KW and up at the rear wheel.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Dec 26 2013 7:47pm

Not exactly light weigh but worth it for sure.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by MitchJi » Dec 27 2013 2:43am

Hi Rick,
MitchJi wrote: Are there MC tires and rims, that are close to 29 inch? What sizes?
Rix wrote:Yes, Prowheel racing makes 21x1.6 front rims in black, red, blue, gold, and clear polished aluminum that you could run virtually any 21" knobby or front trials tires on that would come in around the 28"-29" mark. The only thing you need to realize is that the tires in this size start out at 10 Ibs and go up from there in weight.

Rick
10 lbs? Yikes :shock: :!:

Thank You Very Much!
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by GCinDC » Dec 27 2013 8:43am

MitchJi wrote:10 lbs? Yikes
yep, sounds like a lot. but for high speed, 3kw+ road setups, it's hard to compare the feeling of stability and traction, not to mention braking...

meanwhile, i found a couple other pics comparing a 26" wheel with 19" MC wheel:
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by GCinDC » Dec 27 2013 8:57am

fechter wrote:Does anybody know what the maximum inflation pressure for these is?
32 PSI for the 244, 33 PSI for the 241 (max load 342lbs, lol - see tires specs on first page)

i'm not sure i'd put them on the front, considering the weight (and lowering of the bb), but sure do look good, from here:
Image

finally, i'm not sure why i chose the 244 way back when, but have come to like the 241s better, and have to imagine they'd have less rolling resistance, considering the tread pattern,though i'm not sure.

here the 241:
Image

here the 244:
Image
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by fechter » Dec 27 2013 11:16am

Great thread on the Raptor there.

So my other question is exactly how wide are the Shinko tires? I'd like to use the widest ones that will still clear the front fork. Is the 2.75 tire actually 2.75" at the widest point?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by GCinDC » Dec 27 2013 11:25am

fechter wrote:So my other question is exactly how wide are the Shinko tires? I'd like to use the widest ones that will still clear the front fork. Is the 2.75 tire actually 2.75" at the widest point?
no sir. also on the specs on the first page :P are the tire widths... 2.92 and 2.95, but i measured my dh comp rear triangle at 3.15 where the tire goes and it just barely clears. i wouldn't use them on a space less than 3"!

but if the nobbies rub, you can always cut 'em off... lol
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Dec 27 2013 11:39am

m52 power! wrote:It seems to me the weight increase would SUBSTANTIALLY increase the power to spin at speed and greatly reduce your distance and top speed... Has anyone calculated it?
WHen I originally went to the 19x1.4 with the 5403, I was watching wattage consumption and comparing that to the 24MTB wheel it replaced. My top speed WOT with the 19x1.4 5403 hovered around 3.6KW on the flat with no head wind. WIth the 24MTB, it was around 3.5 KW under the same conditions. It would appear with 19x1.4 on the 5403, I was using about 100 WH more riding around at WOT. Of course this was over a year ago, and I may not be recalling the numbers correctly. But thats what is coming to mind.

Rick

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by fechter » Dec 27 2013 12:21pm

GCinDC wrote:
fechter wrote:So my other question is exactly how wide are the Shinko tires? I'd like to use the widest ones that will still clear the front fork. Is the 2.75 tire actually 2.75" at the widest point?
no sir. also on the specs on the first page :P are the tire widths... 2.92 and 2.95, but i measured my dh comp rear triangle at 3.15 where the tire goes and it just barely clears. i wouldn't use them on a space less than 3"!

but if the nobbies rub, you can always cut 'em off... lol
OK, got it. I missed the measurement on page 1. I think they will fit my A2B.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Dec 31 2013 10:16am

for one of my builds, I actually used a 21" M/C rim. Depending on which tire you put on it, it will be around 26" in diameter or maybe 27" but not really close to 29". You would need a tire that is 3" tall at the sidewall to get to 27" so unless you can find one that is 4 inches tall, I don't think that you are going to get close to 29 inches. I have a feeling that there would not be many rear triangles that would be wide enough for that.

The real issue is the weight and rotating mass. I don't think that there are many 21" tires that are under 9 lbs, however, there are a few tires in the 19" range that are in the 5 lb range. I have decided to use the IRC rear GP1 dual sport 2.75 x 19 for my latest build (I am using them front and back). These only weigh around 5.5 pounds which will keep my total wheel weight in the 10 lbs range.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Dec 31 2013 10:57am

Ch00paKabrA wrote:for one of my builds, I actually used a 21" M/C rim. Depending on which tire you put on it, it will be around 26" in diameter or maybe 27" but not really close to 29". You would need a tire that is 3" tall at the sidewall to get to 27" so unless you can find one that is 4 inches tall, I don't think that you are going to get close to 29 inches. I have a feeling that there would not be many rear triangles that would be wide enough for that.

The real issue is the weight and rotating mass. I don't think that there are many 21" tires that are under 9 lbs, however, there are a few tires in the 19" range that are in the 5 lb range. I have decided to use the IRC rear GP1 dual sport 2.75 x 19 for my latest build (I am using them front and back). These only weigh around 5.5 pounds which will keep my total wheel weight in the 10 lbs range.
Yes there are 21" MC tires in the 26" OD range, I know from personal experience that the MT43s and SR 241s are really close to 28"OD. In fact the SR241 3.00x21 was right at 28" according to my tape. I ran both those tires on my Beta Evo 250 before I sold it. And like you said, any 80/100x21 knobby tire can be found in the 26" range all day long. I looked at the GP1 several times but haven't tested this tire in this size yet. When you get your ride up and going, are you going to be doing offroad riding? If so I would be very interested in hearing how you like the GP1, specifically in dry loose conditions. On my Bomber, I have experimented with 15 tires to date now on the rear. 6 MTB tires in the 24x 2.50-3.00 size range, 4 MC tires various types in the 19x2.75 and 70/100x19, and 5 MC tires, 4 in 17x2.75-3.00 range and 1 in 70/10x17 size. With all of these tires, I keep going back to the SR241. On the 19MC rim, the 2.75x19 SR241 ha sor far shown to be the king of the crop for my intended purposes. On the 17MC rim, the 3.00x17SR241 is king for the same reason. There are better road tires, there are better dirt tires, but so far, I haven't found a better road and dirt tire than the SR241. The two tires that I haven't tested yet that I am very curious about are the SR244 and the GP1 you are going to be going with. So whats the ETA for completion on your latest build? Any pics?

Rick

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by zombiess » Dec 31 2013 7:23pm

I am curious about the difference between the SR241 and SR244 for on road use myself. I have the SR244's because I read reviews that said they were 60% street, 40% dirt and the SR241 is 40% street, 60% dirt. I have no idea if this is true or if there is any difference at all. When I am walking the bike around I can feel the nobbies a little bit. Do you notice this at all on the SR241 tires? I have a feeling these tires are going to last a very very long time on an ebike since it's so light compared to a MC.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Dec 31 2013 7:53pm

I am curious about the difference between the SR241 and SR244 for on road use myself
Me too! I am coming to the point that I am not going to spend any more money testing tires. To date, I have spent close to 500 bucks on running different tires only to keep going back to the 241. Plus I have about 1500 bucks in tire inventory just sitting in the garage. As you can see from the pic, I now I have a 19MC on the front like yours with a SR241 2.75x19 and have eliminated the need for any MTB tire inventory. Rear is a 3.00x17 SR241. I gave all of my 24TMB (3 Arrow Racing Primbites, 1 Gazzalodis, 1 Felt Bermaster, and 8 Razorbacks both 2.6 and 3.00 sizes to my dad who is running that size tire on the rear of his homebuilt. Needless to say, he wont be running out of tires soon. Jay, AKA Hyena has a 2.75 x19 in both the 241 and 244. But he won't speak up :lol: . Hyena, give us a ride report on the differences between the 241 and 244 already. :?:
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Dec 31 2013 10:34pm

Rix wrote:
Ch00paKabrA wrote:for one of my builds, I actually used a 21" M/C rim. Depending on which tire you put on it, it will be around 26" in diameter or maybe 27" but not really close to 29". You would need a tire that is 3" tall at the sidewall to get to 27" so unless you can find one that is 4 inches tall, I don't think that you are going to get close to 29 inches. I have a feeling that there would not be many rear triangles that would be wide enough for that.

The real issue is the weight and rotating mass. I don't think that there are many 21" tires that are under 9 lbs, however, there are a few tires in the 19" range that are in the 5 lb range. I have decided to use the IRC rear GP1 dual sport 2.75 x 19 for my latest build (I am using them front and back). These only weigh around 5.5 pounds which will keep my total wheel weight in the 10 lbs range.
Yes there are 21" MC tires in the 26" OD range, I know from personal experience that the MT43s and SR 241s are really close to 28"OD. In fact the SR241 3.00x21 was right at 28" according to my tape. I ran both those tires on my Beta Evo 250 before I sold it. And like you said, any 80/100x21 knobby tire can be found in the 26" range all day long. I looked at the GP1 several times but haven't tested this tire in this size yet. When you get your ride up and going, are you going to be doing offroad riding? If so I would be very interested in hearing how you like the GP1, specifically in dry loose conditions. On my Bomber, I have experimented with 15 tires to date now on the rear. 6 MTB tires in the 24x 2.50-3.00 size range, 4 MC tires various types in the 19x2.75 and 70/100x19, and 5 MC tires, 4 in 17x2.75-3.00 range and 1 in 70/10x17 size. With all of these tires, I keep going back to the SR241. On the 19MC rim, the 2.75x19 SR241 ha sor far shown to be the king of the crop for my intended purposes. On the 17MC rim, the 3.00x17SR241 is king for the same reason. There are better road tires, there are better dirt tires, but so far, I haven't found a better road and dirt tire than the SR241. The two tires that I haven't tested yet that I am very curious about are the SR244 and the GP1 you are going to be going with. So whats the ETA for completion on your latest build? Any pics?

Rick
I am still compiling all of the parts for the build. I just took delivery of a GNG 48v 450w kit today but the box looked like they packed a stick of dynamite in with it and it went off. I am missing a lot of the components. I intend to run it at 60v 500w so I don't think it will be strong enough for off road plus I still haven't received the tires yet. I mainly chose them because of the weight. They are about 1/2 what other 19 inch tires weigh. I sold the 21" rims because they just didn't work for me since I had them initially on a weak bafang hub motor.

This bike is going to be my 2014 project and I am in no hurry to finish it since I already have 2 other ebikes. I want to do this one right and make it look classy. The color theme is going to be black and gold. Thanks for the interest. Good luck with yours and Happy new year.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Dec 31 2013 11:55pm

This bike is going to be my 2014 project and I am in no hurry to finish it since I already have 2 other ebikes. I want to do this one right and make it look classy. The color theme is going to be black and gold. Thanks for the interest. Good luck with yours and Happy new year.
Happy new year to you as well. Keep us posted on your build.

Rick

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by ridethelightning » Jan 01 2014 1:41am

nice thread
great help for guys turning to moto rims/tyres

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jan 01 2014 9:27am

ridethelightning wrote:nice thread
great help for guys turning to moto rims/tyres
There is weight penalty, but for the increase in durability, flat protection, and tire life, for most, the weight penalty is worth it. Are you considering MC rim/tire conversion for your bike?

Rick

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Dlogic » Jan 01 2014 11:50am

Rix wrote:Me too! I am coming to the point that I am not going to spend any more money testing tires. To date, I have spent close to 500 bucks on running different tires only to keep going back to the 241. Plus I have about 1500 bucks in tire inventory just sitting in the garage.
Tell me about it. I could open up a rim, tire and tube store selling all the stuff that was tested for a couple of kilometers and then put to rest in my garage. :mrgreen:

Maybe a chart of the best combos would be nice. Including the correct spoke length for the different rim and motor combos.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jan 01 2014 4:16pm

Dlogic wrote:
Rix wrote:Me too! I am coming to the point that I am not going to spend any more money testing tires. To date, I have spent close to 500 bucks on running different tires only to keep going back to the 241. Plus I have about 1500 bucks in tire inventory just sitting in the garage.
Tell me about it. I could open up a rim, tire and tube store selling all the stuff that was tested for a couple of kilometers and then put to rest in my garage. :mrgreen:

Maybe a chart of the best combos would be nice. Including the correct spoke length for the different rim and motor combos.



I could provide some spoke data on the 54xx running 19MC, 17MC, and soon 18MC.

Rick

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Dlogic » Jan 01 2014 4:51pm

That would be just great. My 18 inch rims should arrive in about a week from now. :-)

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by ridethelightning » Jan 01 2014 7:52pm

Rix wrote:
ridethelightning wrote:nice thread
great help for guys turning to moto rims/tyres
There is weight penalty, but for the increase in durability, flat protection, and tire life, for most, the weight penalty is worth it. Are you considering MC rim/tire conversion for your bike?

Rick


yep. after a catastrophic rear tyre failure while carrying a brushcutter in the middle of nowhere (complete nightmare) i wouldnt consider anything else anymore,for the rear tyre anyway, especially if carrying some weight.

iv started my new build using 16" moped rim +cromotor and heidenau k32 tyre on the rear.
all pretty easy to build, but for getting the tyre bead seated properly, not evenly tucking in all way round,causing it to wobble a bit. any hints?

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by joepah » Jan 01 2014 8:17pm

Thanks for the comparision thread!

Can attest to the reliability of moped tires on ebikes.. AFter 15 flats or more with my great handling 20x3 Kendas, I was told to switch to 16" Shinkos.. not only were they incredibly cheap like 17 bucks, but they were absolutley bullet proof... And hardly lost any pressure... The only problem I had with them was that they were very hard in comparison and would break lose much sooner than the Kendas...Was told the Pirelli Moped tires handled much better but cost twice as much.
After 3000 miles and absolutely no problem with the Shinkos I sold my eBike and bought a 26 inch tire Stromer....

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jan 01 2014 11:07pm

Dlogic wrote:That would be just great. My 18 inch rims should arrive in about a week from now. :-)
Sweet, you want me to get those 115mm spokes on the way?

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jan 01 2014 11:16pm

[/quot[quote="ridethelightning

yep. after a catastrophic rear tyre failure while carrying a brushcutter in the middle of nowhere (complete nightmare) i wouldnt consider anything else anymore,for the rear tyre anyway, especially if carrying some weight.

iv started my new build using 16" moped rim +cromotor and heidenau k32 tyre on the rear.
all pretty easy to build, but for getting the tyre bead seated properly, not evenly tucking in all way round,causing it to wobble a bit. any hints?
e]
You know, I had the same problems when I was testing the 2.75 and 3.00 x 17 M62s. After I tried inflating to 85 PSI with the bead coated with dish soap combined with water, it still failed to allow the bead to rise up on the rim. I discovered that my rim stripwas too wide. I got rid of it and used duct tape with the roll torn in half and wrapped the face of the nipples in the three times. That solved the problem. Check and make sure your rim strip isn't too wide, and make sure the bead is wet with dish soap mixed with water. Dont be affraid to double the recommended PSI to get the bead to seat on the rim.

Rick

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by ridethelightning » Jan 02 2014 4:56pm

thanks man! that sounds promising. my first rimstrip was a piece of leather and hot glue. oh dear......
then i went to duct tape but used the full width, 2 times round. that might be the problem, and also i diddnt use any soap and diddnt inflate that much.

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