19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by 100volts+ » Sep 08 2014 4:07pm

100volts+ wrote:
On another note, does anyone have a line on someone lacing MC rims to front MTB hubs?


Funny you should mention that. I would like to lace up a 19 x1.4 yamaha playbike rim to a 20mm axle with dual disc capability. It would match my rear tire. I hope I don't have to dish too much because I suck at lacing. However that is the point. I'm trying to learn.


I found that 1X such as on rear hub motors laced to rims is easy, but I flat suck at 3X. Of course I have never been instructed on this, and the time I tried it, I had no references. So for this reason, I wont mess with the front.
I'm still tempted to try a 3x it might end badly. I'll try to find a wheel smith ahead of my try in case of failure. Here are some good instructions I think.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =1&t=57440

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Offroader » Sep 08 2014 4:32pm

What is so difficult about 3x lacing pattern? I used the following video which I found was straight forward to lace my 26" wheel. Just do it step by step and you can't go wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCloMziaCk

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 08 2014 5:13pm

Offroader wrote:What is so difficult about 3x lacing pattern? I used the following video which I found was straight forward to lace my 26" wheel. Just do it step by step and you can't go wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCloMziaCk
The reason its difficult for me is I can't seem to get the spoke tension remotely even when the wheel is true, I have some loose ones and some that are banjo string tight the times I had laced 3X on MTBs. So I don't mess with it.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Offroader » Sep 08 2014 6:49pm

Interesting, I used really thin 14/15 gauge for my 26" mountain bike front. I think that was the reason why it worked so well, my front wheel was surprisingly true to .25 to .5mm I believe after over 1000 miles and I only trued it by eye. The thin gauge makes it easy to get enough tension through the wheel.

It's funny how thin gauge is by far the way to go for the front, but not so for the rear.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 08 2014 7:50pm

Offroader wrote:Interesting, I used really thin 14/15 gauge for my 26" mountain bike front. I think that was the reason why it worked so well, my front wheel was surprisingly true to .25 to .5mm I believe after over 1000 miles and I only trued it by eye. The thin gauge makes it easy to get enough tension through the wheel.

It's funny how thin gauge is by far the way to go for the front, but not so for the rear.
Indeed it is. Yah, we need 10g or larger on the rear, and 14g on the front.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by johnrobholmes » Sep 09 2014 11:39am

I wouldn't suggest a bicycle basket weave for 3x using moto rims, just straight from the hub to rim without crossing under.


I've got one last big OEM motor project for a UAV company that should be finished end of next week, then I think we can start building wheels again. Should have the 19" rims about the same time too.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by amberwolf » Sep 09 2014 12:51pm

Rix wrote:The reason its difficult for me is I can't seem to get the spoke tension remotely even when the wheel is true, I have some loose ones and some that are banjo string tight the times I had laced 3X on MTBs. So I don't mess with it.
What about making sure all the tension is correct first, and then true it up? If the spokes are the right lengths and aren't too thick, and the rim is new/reasonably true to start with, it should end up with decently-even tensions.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 09 2014 5:26pm

johnrobholmes wrote:I wouldn't suggest a bicycle basket weave for 3x using moto rims, just straight from the hub to rim without crossing under.


I've got one last big OEM motor project for a UAV company that should be finished end of next week, then I think we can start building wheels again. Should have the 19" rims about the same time too.
Thats great news John! I have been getting quite a bit of PMs about wheel builds and who to go to since Volt Riders closed up. Even had a few guys asked me for rear wheel builds. For the Australia guys, I have been referring them to Voice Coils (Abraham) but State side, I didn't have a source. Your wheel buildss are so good, glad you are going to be back in business. Let us know when that is, got a front MTB hub I will need laced up. Time frame early quater next year.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by pucksterpete » Sep 15 2014 5:47pm

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by biskero » Sep 18 2014 11:13am

Hello,

I read the thread and learned a lot.
So my project is a bit different from normal as I am building a chopper style ebike.
Currently I am researching tyres/rims sizes and this thread was really helpful.

The idea was to use a street motorbike large tyre on a large custom bicycle rim: 17"/16" x 5"
Motorbike Tyre: 17" or 16"
Custom made Rim: 5" = 127 mm

So I was looking around and can't really find 5" bicycle rims, largest I found was width 20"x3.9"=100mm
The easy way would be just to use an entire street motorbike wheel, rim and tyre, and most likely cut the spokes since these wheels have 3 or 4 big spokes, but they will be pretty heavy.
But I wanted to see if I could make a custom build.

Any advice and also any information on the sizes?
I mean, can I make a custom bicycle rim build of 17"x5" to fit a 17" motorbike tyre?
Does it make sense?

Just wanted to add, if I tell these guys to make a 17"x5" custom rim, can than I mount 17" motorbike tyre on it?
Thanks
Alessandro

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Sep 18 2014 3:22pm

biskero,

welcome to the forum!
i think you need to decide what tires you want to use first..
then find rims on the market that are readily available and are the recommended size for your tire choice..
sounds like you want a small diameter wheel with a wide tire (for street use..)
most likely you will not find bicycle tires / rims in this size because bicycles (for adults) tend to have larger diameter wheels.. and bicycle tires will not normally be super wide because that would pedal very slow with much rolling resistance.. but maybe that is where the (e)motor comes in handy.. but super wide tires will not be as efficient and will require more power and batteries.. and that adds weight and money..
that said check into "Supermoto" rims.. Prowheel sells several rims for supermoto/ street tires and Shinko sells street tires to match.. check the tire specs of your desired tire for recommended rim size / width..
if possible go to your local motorcycle shop and check out the tires in person to get a feel for the size, weight etc..
http://www.shinkotireusa.com/tires
http://www.prowheelracing.com/rims/

or maybe check into kids fatbikes with 20" small diameter fatbike wheels that you could source the wheels from.. this would be much lighter weight than moto rims & tires.. and likely less expensive as well..
example: http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/03/09/wal ... -fat-bike/
or maybe something like this 24" x 4" fat wheels..
Image

you would not want to have a rim custom made because that would cost LOTS..
rim manufacturers rely on quantity so a one off custom rim would likely be very expensive..
also if there are tires made in a size that works for you then there will already be rims to fit that tire on the market.. tire manufacturers do not make tires that have no rim made to mount on..
hope this helps some.. keep us posted on what you get and your build!
biskero wrote:Hello,

I read the thread and learned a lot.
So my project is a bit different from normal as I am building a chopper style ebike.
Currently I am researching tyres/rims sizes and this thread was really helpful.

The idea was to use a street motorbike large tyre on a large custom bicycle rim: 17"/16" x 5"
Motorbike Tyre: 17" or 16"
Custom made Rim: 5" = 127 mm

So I was looking around and can't really find 5" bicycle rims, largest I found was width 20"x3.9"=100mm
The easy way would be just to use an entire street motorbike wheel, rim and tyre, and most likely cut the spokes since these wheels have 3 or 4 big spokes, but they will be pretty heavy.
But I wanted to see if I could make a custom build.

Any advice and also any information on the sizes?
I mean, can I make a custom bicycle rim build of 17"x5" to fit a 17" motorbike tyre?
Does it make sense?

Just wanted to add, if I tell these guys to make a 17"x5" custom rim, can than I mount 17" motorbike tyre on it?
Thanks
Alessandro
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by biskero » Sep 18 2014 3:37pm

Ciao,

thanks a lot for the infos.
Like you said I need to match motorbike tyre to bike rims.
Currently I have the following requirements fixed as looks like from various infos I gather that:

A motorbike tyre of 16" will fit in a 20"x100mm rim bike. I have found such rim so will buy it and do some testing.
Now I need to decide which width of motorbike tyre I want and my thinking is <180mm else it's too wide.
So until now I got the following requirements down:
Rim: 20"x100mm
Tyre: 16"x 160-180mm

By the way I am building the body of the bike so my requirements are flexible in a way to adjust details.
About the custom build of rims and cost I am contacting some manufactures and the costs are not too prohibitive as I thought before my research.

Anyway thanks for the feedback and information.
Thanks
Alessandro

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 18 2014 6:54pm

22-inch-rims-wide.jpg
Wide rims
22-inch-rims-wide.jpg (227.83 KiB) Viewed 720 times
22 inch rims narrow.jpg
Narrow rims
22 inch rims narrow.jpg (191.34 KiB) Viewed 720 times
I posted this a while back but have just been guided to this thread. Some of you may be interested in this?

I gather most builds have been limited to using
20inch bike wheels with 16inch motorbike tyres
24inch bike wheels with 20inch motorbike tyres
26inch bike tyres with 22inch motorbike tyres


So I managed to get my hands on a pair of 36mm wide 22inch bike wheels to test various tyres on and they are a perfect fit for 18" motorcycle tyres which are fairly standard, fairly cheap and available in lots of styles.

These 36mm wide rims will take a tyre up to 3inches wide.

The only downside is that they are for a niche market at the moment and are fairly pricey and hard to get hold of.

Ive contacted the factory where they are made and the min order is 500 rims. I have found a distributor who will sell me less quantity but at a higher cost per piece.

Also I can supply 26mm wide, which take 18" scooter type tyres. These are easier to source so would be a better price.

I'm happy to try to get a group order together depending upon interest?
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 18 2014 11:10pm

biskero wrote:Hello,

I read the thread and learned a lot.
So my project is a bit different from normal as I am building a chopper style ebike.
Currently I am researching tyres/rims sizes and this thread was really helpful.

The idea was to use a street motorbike large tyre on a large custom bicycle rim: 17"/16" x 5"
Motorbike Tyre: 17" or 16"
Custom made Rim: 5" = 127 mm

So I was looking around and can't really find 5" bicycle rims, largest I found was width 20"x3.9"=100mm
The easy way would be just to use an entire street motorbike wheel, rim and tyre, and most likely cut the spokes since these wheels have 3 or 4 big spokes, but they will be pretty heavy.
But I wanted to see if I could make a custom build.

Any advice and also any information on the sizes?
I mean, can I make a custom bicycle rim build of 17"x5" to fit a 17" motorbike tyre?
Does it make sense?

Just wanted to add, if I tell these guys to make a 17"x5" custom rim, can than I mount 17" motorbike tyre on it?
Thanks
Alessandro
Ciao Alessandro, hai chiesta un proprio bravo domanda. Io penso tu vorei un rota di motocicletta 17x1.4. Ce tanti equipaiggo quella fanno questa prodotti. Okay that the extent of my Italian, I haven't spoken or lived in Italy for over 10 years. Really you would want a Prowheel racing rim 17x1.4 and any 2.5-17 or 2.75-17 Trials tire, or a 70/100x17 tire for it. Anyway if you need some help, just tell my the rim you want to run, the hub motor you want to use with flange diameter, and we can figure out your spoke length. PM me if there is a language barrier, I have tons of Italian friends that can help us translate data technica :D

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by biskero » Sep 19 2014 3:40am

Ciao,

thanks for the feedback and help.
Basically I want to understand if the tyre in this post which have the following information

D407 180 65 B 16 81H and it's dimensions are:
Inside Diameter = 16"
Outside Diameter = 25"
Outside Width (bead to bead) =4 3/4"
Outsude Width = 6 3/4"
Image
Image

would fit into a 20"x100mm rim like this one, any idea?
Image
So at that point I have the following requirements for my rear wheel:
RIM (bike): 20"x100mm
Tyre (motorbike): 16"x160-180mm

About the spokes I will ask you later on.

I know is very wide tyre but that's the all point for this project ! :)

Edit: here is a video showing the idea of the large tyre :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-xB7rnMs64#t=67

Alessandro

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 19 2014 9:45am

This is correct Allesandro, you can use 16" MC tires on 20" BMX bike rims which is actually 16 inches. But, I am not at all familiar with those bicycle chopper tires and rims, but it should work. Remember the bicycle industry uses the outside diameter of an inflated tire to measure wheel size with a 1.75" wide tire with proportional tire profile heights and the motorcycle industry measures the size of the tire by the rim its mounted on. This is why a 24MTB tire which has a 20.5" rim and a 19x1.4 MC rim running a 2.75-3.00-19 size tires is really close in size. So for you question, if that black rim is rated as a 20" chopper bicycle wheel, it should have a 16 inch rim, and yes there have been folks on Endless Sphere who have mounted 16"moto tires to 12" bicycle rims because they are the same size. I would search ES and speak with someone that has specifically worked with that size of rim and tire combo.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by biskero » Sep 19 2014 9:55am

Ciao,

thanks for the explanation, finally I got a definition that makes sense! :)
My plan at this point is to get the 20"x100mm bike rim and than search for moto tire 16" to a local moto tyre shop, maybe used ones to see what works.

After that, hub and axle research and planning which is going to be tricky.

Alessandro

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by snig » Sep 24 2014 5:33pm

Hello Endless-Sphere!

Inspired by this thread, I set out a few weeks ago to build my first ebike around these wheels. However, with the decline of Voltriders/Holmes I had everything except the washers figured out. Luckily, and thanks to the detailed measurements provided by GCinDC, I found a source on AmazonSupply - specifically a 100 pack of 0.203" ID, 0.438" OD, 0.063" Thick, flat washers in 18-8 Stainless. (5.15mm ID, 11.12mm OD, 1.6mm Thick) These fit snugly on the Holmes 13ga (large) and 12ga nipples.

My first build attempt was on a wheel that required a lot of dishing. But even with one side way overtightened and the other not at all - I only got the rim to move about 5-8mm closer to center. I've bought a new frame since, which will not need any dishing. But I haven't tried to true these rims yet, and I'm worried I won't be able to, now, or when they inevitably take a hit.

My suspicion up to this point is that my washers are shifting much more than the rim. From this thread I've seen at least one other build using flat washers. I would very much like to hear of anyone else doing so, and their experience - or if anyone had this problem with the beveled washers.

Of course, if someone has found a new source for the correct washers, that would also be very much appreciated! So far I have only found Boker's at http://www.bokers.com/custom_washers.asp, I have yet to contact them for a quote yet.

Thanks

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 24 2014 7:03pm

Hello Snig, welcom to ES and welcome to the thread. Can't help you with washers, as I never needed to source them for a wheel build, but would be very intrested in seeing a picture of your ebike, post it with your wheels built up. Show us your project.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Sep 24 2014 7:30pm

welcome to the forum snig..

Holmes Hobbies is still in business just not volt riders..
i think holmes now has rims/ spokes, nipples in stock that don't require washers..
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=35442
snig wrote:Hello Endless-Sphere!

Inspired by this thread, I set out a few weeks ago to build my first ebike around these wheels. However, with the decline of Voltriders/Holmes I had everything except the washers figured out. Luckily, and thanks to the detailed measurements provided by GCinDC, I found a source on AmazonSupply - specifically a 100 pack of 0.203" ID, 0.438" OD, 0.063" Thick, flat washers in 18-8 Stainless. (5.15mm ID, 11.12mm OD, 1.6mm Thick) These fit snugly on the Holmes 13ga (large) and 12ga nipples.

My first build attempt was on a wheel that required a lot of dishing. But even with one side way overtightened and the other not at all - I only got the rim to move about 5-8mm closer to center. I've bought a new frame since, which will not need any dishing. But I haven't tried to true these rims yet, and I'm worried I won't be able to, now, or when they inevitably take a hit.

My suspicion up to this point is that my washers are shifting much more than the rim. From this thread I've seen at least one other build using flat washers. I would very much like to hear of anyone else doing so, and their experience - or if anyone had this problem with the beveled washers.

Of course, if someone has found a new source for the correct washers, that would also be very much appreciated! So far I have only found Boker's at http://www.bokers.com/custom_washers.asp, I have yet to contact them for a quote yet.

Thanks
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 24 2014 7:40pm

Good point EFMX, also I forgot to add, that JR Holmes will be returning to the wheel building business in the near future. I don't know when exactly.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by johnrobholmes » Sep 24 2014 9:58pm

Pretty much today I'm accepting wheel builds. Just finishing a small motor contract and I'll have some freed time.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Kent » Sep 25 2014 2:22am

johnrobholmes wrote:Pretty much today I'm accepting wheel builds. Just finishing a small motor contract and I'll have some freed time.
Good news. So John, with this group buy forming, there may be several who would want builds from you for the Mxus motor. I know you have the 19" moped rims coming, but will you be able to offer 18" or 17" wheels for those who want or are they going to have to source themselves and send them on to you?
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by johnrobholmes » Sep 25 2014 8:36am

I have 19s and 17s in stock that have proper angles for the Cromotor and mxus knockoff. At this time I won't be lacing any other rims because the nipple angles are wrong and it is a huge pain in the ass to build an ill assembled wheel. Typically takes another $40 of rim mods just to make other rims work ok.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Offroader » Sep 25 2014 5:13pm

People are getting a great deal getting their hub motor rim built by johnholmeshobbies. I can tell you that it is very time consuming even if you have done it a number of times and are doing it efficiently.

Not only is it time consuming, but you have to know what you are doing to get it done properly so that no spokes loosen.

It took me over 5 or 6 complete hub motor wheel builds to finally get it right doing it myself, and that is not counting the many times I unloosened all my spokes to retension them.

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