19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
User avatar
johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3955
Joined: Jul 07 2008 2:19pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by johnrobholmes » Sep 25 2014 6:06pm

I've built hundreds of hub motor wheels and it STILL takes a long time. The only way I saved some time was to use a power drill to install the nipples to an almost tight position :lol:

User avatar
Kent   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 382
Joined: Jun 04 2011 3:14pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Kent » Sep 25 2014 6:53pm

The last build that JRH did for me was a 1.4 -19 steel moped wheel with 12 g spokes into my HS3540 which has held up well.

My only problem has been due to frame clearance, I couldn't run the 2.75 Shinko like everyone else and had to settle for a 2.5" x 19 no-name off Treatland. When I was doing my tire research I found no other selections for the 2.5 x 19 size anywhere.

So this time around and for my upcoming new build into the Maxxus 3000 from our group buy, I was considering going to an 18" for better tire selection.

At 95 volts, an 18" x 2.5 will see almost 50 mph and will still give me my target 38 mph cruise speed on my 2 lane, 40 mph country roads.

But by what JRH just said, it sounds like aluminum motorcycle wheels like the Prowheel 36 hole are almost too much hassle to mount a hub motor properly to. Certainly more labor intensive. Something like this:
18 wheel e-bay (640 x 360).jpg
36 hole aluminum
18 wheel e-bay (640 x 360).jpg (72.13 KiB) Viewed 2587 times
So since I hope to have JRH do the build, it looks like I am back to a 2.50 x 19 tire on one of his new 1.6 x 19 alum rims.

If this keeps up, I may end up like others here with an assortment of wheels and tires cluttering up the bedroom! :lol:

Women love that! :pancake:
72 V, (2x36v, 11.5 ah in series) Cellman, HS3540, 18fet Lyen, Jamis Dirtjumper Hardtail. Its streetlegal w license plate, inspection sticker.

Only by setting an example of good road manners and public courtesy can we convince the general public to take the electric bike seriously as a transportation option. Obey traffic laws!

My build: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=45706
Going legal: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49390

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6704
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 25 2014 8:46pm

If this keeps up, I may end up like others here with an assortment of wheels and tires cluttering up the bedroom!

Women love that!
Yah, chicks dig it Kent. Just ask my GF, she almost dump me over it. Good thing I got a place with a garage, or I would be single and paying a metric shitton in child support. :?

snig   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 18 2014 1:13am
Location: St Paul, MN

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by snig » Sep 25 2014 9:01pm

John, glad to hear you're coming back! I think when I ordered my Sapim spokes you're 90 degree moped spokes were out of stock and I assumed were gone for good. I think at this time I'm going to work with what I've got.

But if you're willing to share, I would very much like to hear what kind of mods you do to work with odd nipple angles on these pro-wheels!

User avatar
johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3955
Joined: Jul 07 2008 2:19pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by johnrobholmes » Sep 25 2014 9:24pm

The best method I found was to chamfer the hole with a countersink, on the side that shows when the wheel is built. Lets the nipple angle a little further without affecting the seating area.

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 25 2014 9:53pm

At 95 volts, an 18" x 2.5 will see almost 50 mph and will still give me my target 38 mph cruise speed on my 2 lane, 40 mph country roads.

But by what JRH just said, it sounds like aluminum motorcycle wheels like the Prowheel 36 hole are almost too much hassle to mount a hub motor properly to. Certainly more labor intensive. Something like this:
Or buy a 22" BMX rim, drill out the holes slightly for 12g, lightweight, easy build and tough?
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
Kent   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 382
Joined: Jun 04 2011 3:14pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Kent » Sep 26 2014 12:07am

richdeloup wrote:
At 95 volts, an 18" x 2.5 will see almost 50 mph and will still give me my target 38 mph cruise speed on my 2 lane, 40 mph country roads.

But by what JRH just said, it sounds like aluminum motorcycle wheels like the Prowheel 36 hole are almost too much hassle to mount a hub motor properly to. Certainly more labor intensive. Something like this:
Or buy a 22" BMX rim, drill out the holes slightly for 12g, lightweight, easy build and tough?
Interesting thought-but do you feel that a 22" BMX wheel is as sturdy as an 17-19" alloy motorcycle wheel? What about nipple/spoke angles? And what about the range of 22" tire sizes and thread patterns?

Part of the attraction of moped stuff of course is reduced flats due in part to a heavier tire carcass. Are 22" BMX tires available in 4 ply construction?

Sorry about all the questions, but it is an interesting alternative idea.
72 V, (2x36v, 11.5 ah in series) Cellman, HS3540, 18fet Lyen, Jamis Dirtjumper Hardtail. Its streetlegal w license plate, inspection sticker.

Only by setting an example of good road manners and public courtesy can we convince the general public to take the electric bike seriously as a transportation option. Obey traffic laws!

My build: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=45706
Going legal: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49390

User avatar
Kent   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 382
Joined: Jun 04 2011 3:14pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Kent » Sep 26 2014 12:07am

!
Last edited by Kent on Sep 26 2014 12:02pm, edited 2 times in total.
72 V, (2x36v, 11.5 ah in series) Cellman, HS3540, 18fet Lyen, Jamis Dirtjumper Hardtail. Its streetlegal w license plate, inspection sticker.

Only by setting an example of good road manners and public courtesy can we convince the general public to take the electric bike seriously as a transportation option. Obey traffic laws!

My build: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=45706
Going legal: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49390

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 26 2014 1:27am

wheel for web.jpg
wheel for web.jpg (114.49 KiB) Viewed 2559 times
Well, I doubt if a 22" BMX rim is as sturdy as an ally scooter type, however I've found that they do fit 18" motorbike/scooter tyres perfectly.

They are 36 hole, double wall construction and pretty industrial strength, as meant for taking huge jump impacts.

I'm not talking about using 22" bike tyres, although the F22 bmx tyre is amazing, built to take 100psi and is 2.29" width.


So there is a fairly large range of tread patterns etc. Easy to build onto any bicycle hub as they are a bike rim.

This pic show a 3" wide tyre which is the maximum the rims will take. Ive also fitted a 2.5" and a 2.25" with no problems.

I can supply these rims in the UK and Europe, however anyone nearer the US would be able to buy basically the same from S&M bikes.

I have a load of other pics of various other tyres but am away from my personal pc until tomorrow when ill try to upload them.
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

snig   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 18 2014 1:13am
Location: St Paul, MN

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by snig » Sep 26 2014 2:43am

Richdeloup, very interesting wheels. Would love to hear the overall wheel height, anything less than 19s and I worry about pedal clearance...

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 26 2014 3:06am

Hi Snig, I'll get back to you with more info tomorrow as on holidays at the moment and away from my workshop :(!!

In the picture that I posted the total height is about the same as a 24" bicycle wheel and bicycle tyre, however I'll take some measurements tomorrow.
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 26 2014 4:39am

Also just realised that in the picture, the forks are meant for a 26" wheel, so you can see that they aren't far off. Pedal height/clearance isn't a problem unless running some sort of super low profile tyre?

I'm still very much at the experimental stage with this, however have successfully laced in a HS3540 without too much hassle.

Funnily enough, one of the hardest parts to source is a 36hole disc front hub?
There are some around but most are 32hole. Bmx front hubs generally don't have a disc mount.
I'm going to experiment with Bmx 36hole rear hub, flipped with a screw on a disc adapter for use as a front hub, however not sure of the total standard width yet?

Another thing to check is fork and frame clearance if running 3" tyres. Some standard sus forks will just take a 3" tyre, some are a few mm too narrow. 2.75" is usually no prob for standard forks.
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

liamcaff   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 418
Joined: Feb 17 2013 6:21pm
Location: Dublin

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by liamcaff » Sep 26 2014 9:34pm

richdeloup wrote:
wheel for web.jpg
Well, I doubt if a 22" BMX rim is as sturdy as an ally scooter type, however I've found that they do fit 18" motorbike/scooter tyres perfectly.

They are 36 hole, double wall construction and pretty industrial strength, as meant for taking huge jump impacts.

I'm not talking about using 22" bike tyres, although the F22 bmx tyre is amazing, built to take 100psi and is 2.29" width.


So there is a fairly large range of tread patterns etc. Easy to build onto any bicycle hub as they are a bike rim.

This pic show a 3" wide tyre which is the maximum the rims will take. Ive also fitted a 2.5" and a 2.25" with no problems.

I can supply these rims in the UK and Europe, however anyone nearer the US would be able to buy basically the same from S&M bikes.

I have a load of other pics of various other tyres but am away from my personal pc until tomorrow when ill try to upload them.
How much?

User avatar
madin88   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3032
Joined: May 27 2013 2:02am
Location: Austria

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by madin88 » Sep 27 2014 3:43am

@ richdelop

do 18" moped tires really fit on 22" bmx rims?
what ETRTO and ERD do these rims have?

was it really that hard for you to find a bicylce hub with 36 holes? I thought they are one of the most available.
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: [url]viewtopic.php?
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 27 2014 9:33am

@madin88

They fit in theory, i.e 20inch bike wheels take 16inch motorbike tyres, so its pretty logical stuff that 22inch bike wheels will take an 18inch Motorbike/scooter tyre.

The rims that I have, use a custom bead-seat fitment for high pressure BMX tyres. I have however tested them with 4 different random 18" motorbike tyres pumped up to max pressure and no problems so far. However, like I say, I'm still at the experimental stages with this.

This week i'm going to put some miles on them at different speeds and different terrain.

There is a possibility that I can get the factory to slightly alter one of their rim molds to whatever tyre construction regs I decide would be the best and the most universal fit?....

Regarding the 36spoke front disc hub, Please send me any info that you can find!
They are available on some cheap and nasty hubs but not standard on anything of real quality. I've found a company in Taiwan who does them and also Hope UK does one, but its mega bucks. I've contacted them about the possibility of supplying me, so that I can hopefully, fairly soon offer front complete wheels and a rear rim, and spokes for various hub motor sizes as a kit. Maybe built up complete rear hub wheels as well but not sure on this yet?

I'm just trying to see how much interest there is out there and if its worth my time and money perusing this, however it does give a new alternative?

Rich
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 27 2014 9:42am

@liamcaff

They will probably be in the region of £60-£70 each.

Unfortunately they are a niche market at the moment so not mass produced and therefore fairly pricey for me to get hold of.

When/if there is enough interest, i may jump in with a bulk factory buy which will then hopefully bring the price down...
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 27 2014 9:48am

A new thread will be started if there is interest, so as not to hijack this one!
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6704
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 27 2014 9:54am

richdeloup wrote:A new thread will be started if there is interest, so as not to hijack this one!
Just my opinion, and I didn't start this thread, but I think anything to do Ebikes and MC rims mounted to hubs, or bicycle rims running MC tires is okay to post here. Also IMO, look at the collective information that is on this thread. Anyone wanting to mount and run a MC wheel tire combo on their ebike can come to this thread and get there qeustions answered. That said, yah ifyou start another thread, I will be the first to subscribe.

Rick

User avatar
madin88   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3032
Joined: May 27 2013 2:02am
Location: Austria

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by madin88 » Sep 27 2014 12:26pm

richdeloup wrote:@madin88

They fit in theory, i.e 20inch bike wheels take 16inch motorbike tyres, so its pretty logical stuff that 22inch bike wheels will take an 18inch Motorbike/scooter tyre.
if ETRTO diameter is the same they will fit. sure. Though 16" moped tires only will fit on 20" BMX rims with 406mm ETRTO and there are also BMX rims with other diameter available :wink:
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: [url]viewtopic.php?
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 27 2014 1:29pm

Sorry not too sure what you are getting at?
I thought that all 20" BMX rims have an ETRTO of 406mm ? if not then so what, we are not interested in the ones that aren't.

Ive been riding around with 18" motorbike tyres on these rims for a while, so know that they fit. I'll take the ETRTO measurement if you want, I suppose it may come in handy somewhere.
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 27 2014 3:28pm

Ok, so a fairly but not exact measurement is 29-466. Ill get the exact ETRTO from the manufacture.

The various 18" tyres that I have tried all seam to fit pretty much exactly. A 3" wide tyre is probably pushing it width wise but does go on, holds at max pressure and I haven't had any problems when riding.

I'm waiting for a new controller to come through to test these at 40mph+

The biggest problem that I can see, is the bead seat ‘chiseled’ shape rather than a round shape, high end motorcycle and car tyres use this ‘euro’ profile though.

As I said before, I have yet to run into any actual problems with this, however it maybe the case that I can get this bead seat changed to the more common round shape?...
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 27 2014 3:35pm

Rix wrote: That said, yah ifyou start another thread, I will be the first to subscribe.
Thanks Rick, I'll keep it on here for now and see how things progress....
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6704
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Sep 27 2014 4:12pm

Got a request for this. The top pic is a 17x1.4 rim I have laced to a 5403, The spoke nipples are 6.4x18mm for 3.6mm diameter spokes. Big stuff here. Look how the spoke exits the nipple at an angle, this is because the drill hole angles from the rim don't match the diameter of the hub. That being said, with proper tension, spoke will bend a little coming out of the nipple for a alignment. JHR has correct this problem by having his 19x1.6 rims and 17 spoke holes punched at correct angles. The next pic is a wheel that JRH built for me, its a 19x1.4 32 hole rim laced to a 32 hole Marzocchi hub, notice the spoke angles are perfect, the wheel is perfect, wish I could build like JRH does. The 3rd pic is the 17 and 19 with tires next to each other for comparison. Since we are on the subject of 18" MC rims, here is a pic of a US Racing Boy Rim 18x1.4 (black) and one the 18x1.4 rim(grey) got from JRH. I bought a couple of the grey ones and am currently running the other one on my Fighter with the 4080. Last pic is of a 17x1.4, 18x1.4 and 19x1.4, for size perspectives. The 18x1.4 black US Racing Boy rim is lighter than my 17x1.4 prowheel racing rim, and is the lightest rim I have came across. My method of weighing these was not super accurate, bathroom scales, but if the scales show that the Racing boy rim is the only rim I have that is just barely under 2 pounds.
Attachments
100_0636.JPG
100_0636.JPG (180.65 KiB) Viewed 2511 times
100_0635.JPG
100_0635.JPG (151.98 KiB) Viewed 2511 times
100_0637.JPG
100_0637.JPG (205.02 KiB) Viewed 2511 times
100_0639.JPG
100_0639.JPG (204.16 KiB) Viewed 2511 times
100_0641.JPG
100_0641.JPG (194.87 KiB) Viewed 2511 times

User avatar
richdeloup   100 W

100 W
Posts: 258
Joined: Mar 11 2012 5:15pm
Location: UK somewhere between the centre and the edge

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by richdeloup » Sep 27 2014 4:30pm

Rix wrote: The 18x1.4 black US Racing Boy rim is lighter than my 17x1.4 prowheel racing rim, .
Do you think 18" M/B rims are probably still the way to go if using fat hub motors?

Here's a pic of another 22" rim (completely different manufacturer) with a 2.25 scooter tyre, showing bead fitment. This set up is cheap, however 2.25 is the max this rim will take.
Could be good for narrow hub motors/lightweight builds?
Attachments
20140927_221806.jpg
20140927_221806.jpg (137.53 KiB) Viewed 2467 times
9 ebikes, one pair of legs, small apartment, no wife

User avatar
Kent   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 382
Joined: Jun 04 2011 3:14pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Kent » Sep 27 2014 5:02pm

richdeloup wrote:
Rix wrote: The 18x1.4 black US Racing Boy rim is lighter than my 17x1.4 prowheel racing rim, .
Do you think 18" M/B rims are probably still the way to go if using fat hub motors?

Here's a pic of another 22" rim (completely different manufacturer) with a 2.25 scooter tyre, showing bead fitment. This set up is cheap, however 2.25 is the max this rim will take.
Could be good for narrow hub motors/lightweight builds?
Could you give us the rim width and bare rim weights?

BTW, scooter tires are typically 10-12". 16-19" are moped/motorcycle tires. :wink:
72 V, (2x36v, 11.5 ah in series) Cellman, HS3540, 18fet Lyen, Jamis Dirtjumper Hardtail. Its streetlegal w license plate, inspection sticker.

Only by setting an example of good road manners and public courtesy can we convince the general public to take the electric bike seriously as a transportation option. Obey traffic laws!

My build: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=45706
Going legal: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49390

Post Reply