19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

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Offroader
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Offroader » Apr 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Looking at my spokes more closely, it seems when alternating it may be better going with 90 degree spokes because it is somewhat in the middle.

It seems the outside spokes would be better with a 110 degree angle when measuring like shown in that blue picture measured on the outside in yellow or angle A.

Assuming outside laced spokes are like shown in the picture below. Those outside spokes have to be bent a lot towards the center of the rim, so they would do better with maybe a 110 degree.

The inside spokes actually work out better with a 80 degree.

Again, look at the picture on how the spoke angle is measured. It is actually measured from the outside and not the inside of the bend.

Image

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Mammalian04 » Apr 19, 2017 4:26 pm

LightningRods and I are trying to sort out spokes for his new hub, laced into a Holmes 19" moto wheel. I'm hoping the experts in this thread can help sort out the measurements Buchanan's needs. Mike, can you post up the required measurements of the hub?

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Offroader » Apr 19, 2017 8:13 pm

Mammalian04 wrote:LightningRods and I are trying to sort out spokes for his new hub, laced into a Holmes 19" moto wheel. I'm hoping the experts in this thread can help sort out the measurements Buchanan's needs. Mike, can you post up the required measurements of the hub?
What gauge are you planning to order from Buchanan? I'm planning on going with 10 gauge. I used 9/10 gauge for two wheel builds and haven't broke a single spoke or had a nipple failure.

Buchanan spokes are just built so strong, I believe the USA steel they use on them hold up much better than Chinese steel, so I think 10 gauge straight will work.

If you are using a mid-drive, then you certainly don't need 9/10 gauge. I believe a hub motor really stresses those spokes a lot more. However, 9/10 gauge are probably just a few grams heavier and you get the beefed up elbows where mostly all the spokes break.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by kingjamez » Apr 28, 2017 11:18 pm

I just installed michelin gazelle 2.75-17's on my QS205 V3 in a 17" moped rim. I haven't taken it out for a ride yet, but on the test stand, at any reasonable speed the wheel shakes A LOT. The rim appears to be true, but I can see wobble in the tire as it spins around.

I deflated the tire, ran soapy water around the bead then reinflated to 50PSI to set the bead. It's a bit better but still wobbles on the test stand. Any tips for balancing a tire? This is the first time I've mounted anything other than a bicycle tire, anything I could have done wrong to cause this?

Any solution other than getting some wheel weights?

-jim

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Apr 28, 2017 11:56 pm

kingjamez wrote:I just installed michelin gazelle 2.75-17's on my QS205 V3 in a 17" moped rim. I haven't taken it out for a ride yet, but on the test stand, at any reasonable speed the wheel shakes A LOT. The rim appears to be true, but I can see wobble in the tire as it spins around.

I deflated the tire, ran soapy water around the bead then reinflated to 50PSI to set the bead. It's a bit better but still wobbles on the test stand. Any tips for balancing a tire? This is the first time I've mounted anything other than a bicycle tire, anything I could have done wrong to cause this?

Any solution other than getting some wheel weights?

-jim
Can static balance it because of Eddy resistance. if you put 2oz of slime in the tire, it will self balance through inertia. I know, its a shitty solution.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Apr 28, 2017 11:57 pm

Offroader wrote:
Mammalian04 wrote:LightningRods and I are trying to sort out spokes for his new hub, laced into a Holmes 19" moto wheel. I'm hoping the experts in this thread can help sort out the measurements Buchanan's needs. Mike, can you post up the required measurements of the hub?
What gauge are you planning to order from Buchanan? I'm planning on going with 10 gauge. I used 9/10 gauge for two wheel builds and haven't broke a single spoke or had a nipple failure.

Buchanan spokes are just built so strong, I believe the USA steel they use on them hold up much better than Chinese steel, so I think 10 gauge straight will work.

If you are using a mid-drive, then you certainly don't need 9/10 gauge. I believe a hub motor really stresses those spokes a lot more. However, 9/10 gauge are probably just a few grams heavier and you get the beefed up elbows where mostly all the spokes break.
If I recall, you are running a MXUS 3K, how long are your spokes for the 17x1.6 rim?

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by madin88 » Apr 29, 2017 1:42 am

Rix wrote:
If I recall, you are running a MXUS 3K, how long are your spokes for the 17x1.6 rim?
it should be 106-107mm for the 17" MMP rims.
for the 19"mmp it is 128mm

those length also fit the QS 205.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Apr 29, 2017 11:04 am

madin88 wrote:
Rix wrote:
If I recall, you are running a MXUS 3K, how long are your spokes for the 17x1.6 rim?
it should be 106-107mm for the 17" MMP rims.
for the 19"mmp it is 128mm

those length also fit the QS 205.
Thanks Maddin, I normally use the Ebikes.ca spoke calculator, and it has always been correct, but its been updated and there are more values to input than before. I just need to familiarize myself with it.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Gary996tt » Jun 05, 2017 11:27 am

Hiya

I am trying I'm to find the answer to what rim size is most suit for a stealth bomber

I have just ordered Yamaha Play Bike Front Rim 1.40x19 Silver

Would this be a good choice for the rear wheel conversion or,should,I have gone for the 18"

I am getting more and more confused

Many thanks
Gary

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Jimboyr6 » Jun 05, 2017 12:44 pm

Hi im running 1.4 19" moto rim works great with 2.75 x19 trail tyre best thing i ever done
A 19 is the closest match to the mtb 24" wheel.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by liamcaff » Jun 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Jimboyr6 wrote:Hi im running 1.4 19" moto rim works great with 2.75 x19 trail tyre best thing i ever done
A 19 is the closest match to the mtb 24" wheel.

Looks great!

Where did you buy your tire and tubes? Trying to source some over here...

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Jimboyr6 » Jun 05, 2017 4:29 pm

liamcaff wrote:
Jimboyr6 wrote:Hi im running 1.4 19" moto rim works great with 2.75 x19 trail tyre best thing i ever done
A 19 is the closest match to the mtb 24" wheel.

Looks great!

Where did you buy your tire and tubes? Trying to source some over here...

Got a michelin 70/100/19 tube,and the 275x19 trail tyre of ebay or u can get 3.00x19 tyre.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by markz » Jun 05, 2017 7:10 pm

I found my Crystalyte rim from Justin @ ebikes the rim is bent from a curb and one spoke hole is cracked.
Now that I gained even more weight, I am going to be needing moto rims now more then ever.
But I still wonder with going this route, why bother with alum moto rims, just stick to steel moto rims.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jun 05, 2017 9:04 pm

markz wrote:I found my Crystalyte rim from Justin @ ebikes the rim is bent from a curb and one spoke hole is cracked.
Now that I gained even more weight, I am going to be needing moto rims now more then ever.
But I still wonder with going this route, why bother with alum moto rims, just stick to steel moto rims.
Steel is soooo heavy. Stick with aluminum. You will thank me later. Will have that quote for you tomorrow.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Chalo » Jun 05, 2017 11:01 pm

Heck, even aluminum moto rims are offensively heavy. The ones I've built seem like they weigh as much as an entire MTB wheel with the tire and cassette already on it. Then the moto tube weighs as much as a big thick bicycle tire, and the tire weighs more than the rest of it combined.

Pound for pound, bicycle wheels are way stronger than moto wheels. Moto crap is only twice as strong because it's ten times as heavy.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Mammalian04 » Jun 06, 2017 12:21 am

Chalo has a point. He's built a bunch for me.

But I still irrationally love the moto wheels Chalo!!! :D

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jun 06, 2017 8:34 am

Chalo wrote:Heck, even aluminum moto rims are offensively heavy. The ones I've built seem like they weigh as much as an entire MTB wheel with the tire and cassette already on it. Then the moto tube weighs as much as a big thick bicycle tire, and the tire weighs more than the rest of it combined.

Pound for pound, bicycle wheels are way stronger than moto wheels. Moto crap is only twice as strong because it's ten times as heavy.
Hey Chalo, awesome analogy. part the reason why bicycle rims are so tough and for how light they are is a the design. Dual wall rims creates a trellis like structure which is way stronger than the single wall MC design. If the MC rim would incorporate and dual wall structure, with how think the aluminum is, it would be strong enough to use as a car wheel. That said, I have contacted a company in Thailand about making some really light 1.20x17 and 1.20x19 rims. These rims, by MC standards will be light, probaly 125g, around 1/4 to 1/3 pound lighter than the current 1.4 X 19 and 1.4 X 17 rims available. However, any tire wider than 2.75 or 70mm will not like this narrow of a rim because the tire will bulge and roll when inflated. I guess my point is, the weight gap between bicycle rim and MC rim for our ebike applications is getting closer.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by bigbore » Jun 06, 2017 10:04 am

Rix wrote:
Chalo wrote:Heck, even aluminum moto rims are offensively heavy. The ones I've built seem like they weigh as much as an entire MTB wheel with the tire and cassette already on it. Then the moto tube weighs as much as a big thick bicycle tire, and the tire weighs more than the rest of it combined.

Pound for pound, bicycle wheels are way stronger than moto wheels. Moto crap is only twice as strong because it's ten times as heavy.
Hey Chalo, awesome analogy. part the reason why bicycle rims are so tough and for how light they are is a the design. Dual wall rims creates a trellis like structure which is way stronger than the single wall MC design. If the MC rim would incorporate and dual wall structure, with how think the aluminum is, it would be strong enough to use as a car wheel. That said, I have contacted a company in Thailand about making some really light 1.20x17 and 1.20x19 rims. These rims, by MC standards will be light, probaly 125g, around 1/4 to 1/3 pound lighter than the current 1.4 X 19 and 1.4 X 17 rims available. However, any tire wider than 2.75 or 70mm will not like this narrow of a rim because the tire will bulge and roll when inflated. I guess my point is, the weight gap between bicycle rim and MC rim for our ebike applications is getting closer.
Hey Rix that's great news! Can you ask that company to build rims with angled spoke holes like Holmes hobby had for sale some time ago?

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by macribs » Jun 06, 2017 10:19 am

If choosing moto wheels consider running it tubeless. Shave offs at least some weight. And makes for easier road side repair if a flat.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jun 06, 2017 10:21 am

bigbore wrote:
Rix wrote:
Chalo wrote:Heck, even aluminum moto rims are offensively heavy. The ones I've built seem like they weigh as much as an entire MTB wheel with the tire and cassette already on it. Then the moto tube weighs as much as a big thick bicycle tire, and the tire weighs more than the rest of it combined.

Pound for pound, bicycle wheels are way stronger than moto wheels. Moto crap is only twice as strong because it's ten times as heavy.
Hey Chalo, awesome analogy. part the reason why bicycle rims are so tough and for how light they are is a the design. Dual wall rims creates a trellis like structure which is way stronger than the single wall MC design. If the MC rim would incorporate and dual wall structure, with how think the aluminum is, it would be strong enough to use as a car wheel. That said, I have contacted a company in Thailand about making some really light 1.20x17 and 1.20x19 rims. These rims, by MC standards will be light, probaly 125g, around 1/4 to 1/3 pound lighter than the current 1.4 X 19 and 1.4 X 17 rims available. However, any tire wider than 2.75 or 70mm will not like this narrow of a rim because the tire will bulge and roll when inflated. I guess my point is, the weight gap between bicycle rim and MC rim for our ebike applications is getting closer.
Hey Rix that's great news! Can you ask that company to build rims with angled spoke holes like Holmes hobby had for sale some time ago?
Thats the next step. Hopefully by this time next year, I will have a spoke cutter and offer custom length spokes and rims for our ebike community.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Chalo » Jun 07, 2017 3:09 am

It's high time that moto wheels, or at least wheels that are needlessly strong for bicycle use, begin to grasp some of the low hanging fruit of bicycles' weight conscious design. So this is indeed great news if such products make it to market.

I think it would be pretty cool if some intrepid tire manufacturer made DOT rated tires for 22" wheels, which is to say MTB and fatbike size. Something like an 80/80-22 tire would be pretty awesome on a rim like the Weinmann DHL65/Origin8 DAT-PRO 65.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jun 07, 2017 9:38 am

Chalo wrote:It's high time that moto wheels, or at least wheels that are needlessly strong for bicycle use, begin to grasp some of the low hanging fruit of bicycles' weight conscious design. So this is indeed great news if such products make it to market.

I think it would be pretty cool if some intrepid tire manufacturer made DOT rated tires for 22" wheels, which is to say MTB and fatbike size. Something like an 80/80-22 tire would be pretty awesome on a rim like the Weinmann DHL65/Origin8 DAT-PRO 65.

Image
Indeed it would be neat. And would weigh significantly less than running a 1.60x21 MC rim with a 3.00-21 SR241.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Jun 07, 2017 9:41 am

Jimboyr6 wrote:Hi im running 1.4 19" moto rim works great with 2.75 x19 trail tyre best thing i ever done
A 19 is the closest match to the mtb 24" wheel.
That did come out nice Jimboy, what PSI are you running? I have found that anything north of 20 PSI is a rough ride, and anything less than 16PSI, I run the risk of the wheel and tube slipping after a creek crossing on the rim because I don't use any rim locks.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Jimboyr6 » Jun 07, 2017 10:59 am

Cheers
Yes u are right, i run 15 psi and that seems to work as lower just feels shit,and higher is to harsh.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by madin88 » Jun 07, 2017 11:45 am

Chalo i'm with you, but when lacing >10kg hubmotors into bicylce rims with bicycle spokes there is a limit.
The big mass of the hub adds much more stress than a heavy rider or vehicle would (either the spokes break or the nipples will pull through the rims).
So for such motors you want to have a rim with sufficienct wall thickness like these commonly used moto rims like MMP, Prowheel, SM Pro etc have, and thick spokes (minimum 12GA IMO).
Furthermore the spokes are quite short because of the large motor flange so there anyway won't be much flex in the wheel (which would make it stronger), and than it is saner to build it stiffer with thicker spokes.
IMO there is nothing wrong with the moped stuff, because the weight of the hub makes it inevitably necessary.


check this out:

Image

Image

this would be the optimal Hub motor wheel (it is BionX D motor laced into 20" bicycle rim).
The spokes are long enough for dampening the motor mass and providing some flex, and the motor is super lightweight as well.
I hope to get soon such bare D-motor and the single components for building that wheel.
than i will push it to the limits with external controller :)
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