19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

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madin88
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by madin88 » Aug 16, 2017 11:38 am

markz wrote:17" moto rim fits 20" bicycle
19" moto rim fits 24" bicycle
21" moto rim fits 26" bicycle - Assumed
16" moto wheels fit 20" bicycle, but only the one with ETRTO of 406mm

@ DasDouble

before speculating any longer, turn on your brain and calculate the "inch" to "mm"
there are many different ETRTO sizes of rims among the 20", 24", 26" and so on, so it makes no sense to generalize the statement.

an example:

16" are 406,4mm so those tires will fit on 20" bicycle wheels with ETRTO of 406mm
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by brumbrum » Aug 16, 2017 12:16 pm

There is no doubt a motorbike tyre tread will last longer, but there is also no doubt that you are currently in a realm of trial and error trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Good luck spending money trying out different combos until you get one to fit, but you wouldnt catch me riding your bike at speed. Ever thought of buying one of these?.... The seller with drop ship from China for you to a avoid customs/duty charges...... https://www.electricrt.com/collections/front-wheels

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Thecopterdr » Aug 29, 2017 12:02 am

This may have been covered in one of the 79 pages on this topic...
What do you guys do for a front hub? I'm looking to get a pair of 19inch rims together for my Enduro project and keep running into problems.
Regarding the front wheel hub, Are guys just drilling the spoke holes bigger to fit the thicker spokes or what?
If I look at a moto hub then there are issues fitting a bicycle brake rotor (Different bolt pattern)
Any ideas? Cheers

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by markz » Aug 29, 2017 2:51 pm

Best to go with double butted spokes, 12G would be the thickest to go. You actually want a bit thinner, so 13G/14G butted Sapims if possible on moto rim. Nipple holes on moto rim are quite wide. Spinning Magnets did an article on moto rims. Can use washers on nipples.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 02, 2017 1:09 pm

Hello and thanks to everybody that contributed to this board an amazing amount of information I am currently building a banshee scream e bike. I have a set of excel rm 250 wheels the rear 19 is 2..1 Inches wide. HAs anyone used a 21 up front ...I haven't found any info on that yet, I will be running a 60 volts into a 2000w mxus hub. In the PIC is a common battery. ..Close but no cigar.I can fit 78 cells in that triangle, but it will be tight.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 02, 2017 1:14 pm

512kb... Never mind.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Nov 02, 2017 3:50 pm

chaindrive wrote:Hello and thanks to everybody that contributed to this board an amazing amount of information I am currently building a banshee scream e bike. I have a set of excel rm 250 wheels the rear 19 is 2..1 Inches wide. HAs anyone used a 21 up front ...I haven't found any info on that yet, I will be running a 60 volts into a 2000w mxus hub. In the PIC is a common battery. ..Close but no cigar.I can fit 78 cells in that triangle, but it will be tight.
I have ran more MC wheel combos than most. I can tell you a 19x2.1 MC rim is way over kill for your MXUS hubbie running 2kw. You would really be better off running a 19x1.4 rim or even a 19x1.6. The biggest rim I ran was an 18x1.85 MC rim and even with the slightly smaller OD over the 19x1.4 rim, I used way more constant current at given speed. What I mean by this, going 37MPH with the 19.1.4 running a 2.75-19 SR241 used 2800w constant, I used 3200w with the 19x1.85 rim running a 2.75-18 SR241. I attribute the increased current demand to the 18x1.85 weighing 2 pounds more than the 19x1.4 rim. For what its worth. Either way you go, post a pic of your build. I would like to see your monster with MC rims and tires.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by markz » Nov 02, 2017 4:36 pm

37MPH with the 19.1.4 running a 2.75-19 SR241 used 2800w constant, I used 3200w with the 19x1.85 rim running a 2.75-18 SR241.
WATT? That is quite a bit! Whats your cruising speeds like in consumption?

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Nov 02, 2017 5:44 pm

markz wrote:
37MPH with the 19.1.4 running a 2.75-19 SR241 used 2800w constant, I used 3200w with the 19x1.85 rim running a 2.75-18 SR241.
WATT? That is quite a bit! Whats your cruising speeds like in consumption?
I don't remember what my cruising speeds were Mark, which I consider cruising speeds to be 20-25MPH or abouit 30-40 Km/H. The figures I referenced were wide open throttle stats after I changed my Bomber's motor from the 5403 to the 5404. When I did this, I first went to the 18x1.85 rim and tire, and then re-laced the 19x1.40 rim. The Bomber weighed 132-135 pounds (depending MC on wheel/tire combo) and I was around 260-265 pounds at the time. Total rider and bike weight were between 396-400 pounds. Does this sound a bit more accurate to you? Keep in mind, I am making references from several years ago, and I may be off a little on the numbers, however, if I am, its not by much.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by minde28383 » Nov 03, 2017 6:59 pm

Thecopterdr wrote:This may have been covered in one of the 79 pages on this topic...
What do you guys do for a front hub? I'm looking to get a pair of 19inch rims together for my Enduro project and keep running into problems.
Regarding the front wheel hub, Are guys just drilling the spoke holes bigger to fit the thicker spokes or what?
If I look at a moto hub then there are issues fitting a bicycle brake rotor (Different bolt pattern)
Any ideas? Cheers
Not all hubs can be drilled for thick spokes due not enough material around.
I know exactly cheap in price and good in quality hub which is good for drilling. It is Novatec 32H 20mm through axle (40usd). This hub is used by QS company making front wheels, 32H version. I recommend it if you don't have hub yet. 32H version is for sure drilled without problem for thicker spokes. 36H version too can be drilled.

Personally myself have abovementioned 36H hub version and I think that holes can be safely drilled/increased a little bit to accept 2,6mm / 13G spokes, but I use standard bicycle 2mm / 14G spokes for my front wheel.

Regarding 32H hub. You can increase holes to accept 2,6mm / 13G and possibly thicker. Drilling (0 usd), need thicker spokes (about 18usd).
On the other hand.
Regarding 36H hub. I keep it with regular 2mm / 14G spokes as this wheel is stronger than 32H.

If bicycle rim than I don't see why not use 14G with 36H bub without any modification. As you go with mc rim than you better with 2,6mmm spokes and 32H version due hub having more material around flanges after drilling. But if you can get only 36H rims than possibly 36H hub will work too.
Find out possible spoke max hole size, hols number,and decide on spokes size before parts buy.

Regarding cheap motorcycle hub. They are massive in size and most importantly in weight. There two to choose from good and cheap pit bike aluminum hub (prices range from 35usd to 52usd.) but you don't put it in bicycle fork without modification and they are only in 32H versions. and weight almost twice than what bicycle hub weights but are bullet prove therefore they are good into rear fork with powerful mid drive motor possibly together with pit bike alum rim in size 17" 1,6" rim (40usd). Nevertheless these pitbike RIMS are not any good for hub motor due hub motor having 36H. And yes, different brake rotor holes pattern for bicycle brake rotor therefore adapter needed.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by minde28383 » Nov 03, 2017 7:18 pm

brumbrum wrote:There is no doubt a motorbike tyre tread will last longer, but there is also no doubt that you are currently in a realm of trial and error trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Good luck spending money trying out different combos until you get one to fit, but you wouldnt catch me riding your bike at speed. Ever thought of buying one of these?.... The seller with drop ship from China for you to a avoid customs/duty charges...... https://www.electricrt.com/collections/front-wheels
They are using above mentioned Novatec hub. Ussually 32H version.

sample prices in Chine before shipment.
Hub 30usd
rim 20usd (actually it differs from 12usd to a lot money but ussualy we buy not expensive rims)
sokes 15usd (2,6mm)

rest is manual work like spoking, aligning, handling shipping.
175usd is very good price. Especially when they are almost at your place.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 03, 2017 9:59 pm

I have a Trek bonded aluminum frame that I am setting up to test parts, my goal is to build this banshee to destroy the stealth bikes and others that are out there....
I like the idea of the hub motors and they are inexpensive as well as low maintenance...This bike may get a custom high torque Toyota hydraulic motor, a custom throttle only mid drive, the the design is somewhere in the back of my brain.
Its about 6 grand from toyota...I just happened to have one that I scavenged off of a fork lift that was ran over by a d300 caterpillar.. I miss doing heavy equipment maintenance..
It is early in this build and I am still doing a lot of research. A monster hub would be the ideal way to go.
I am digging the 21 inch rims I could shave the knobs on this rm 250 front wheel and run it, as is once it is laced to the correct hub. It sure Would be nice to run those discs as well I checked the clearances out and it doesnt interfere even completely bottomed out. THe mockup is the EM3 52 volt battery the 2nd smallest triangle that they make.
I hope to have this thing ready to go by spring. Thanks for the input, guys, and I am sure I will have more questions, I don't think I'm gonna go back and read the whole 78 pages again, forgive me if I get redundant.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 03, 2017 10:00 pm

Thanks again for answering quick guys.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 03, 2017 10:22 pm

The view from the top tube. I was going to put two 52 volt batteries side by side if I have the knee clearance.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 03, 2017 10:29 pm

Not sure why one picture is showing so I resized them again.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 03, 2017 10:30 pm

Yeah, that was it. I didn't have them compressed enough. Everything clears completely bottomed out
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Nov 03, 2017 11:45 pm

Looks HumV tought Chaindrive. Looking forward to seeing your build progress.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 04, 2017 7:35 pm

I am thinking about going with the Sturmey archer SX-RK3 disc brake compatible for fat bikes 170mm axel length, and lacing it to a motorcycle rim in the rear. The Problem is my drop outs. ...I was thinking about taking the middle drop out and slotting it.
I'm not using the first or the last one because there is already a derailleur bracket that spans the hole and will strengthen what I have removed.
It would be nice if I only had to do this to 1 side but I don't think that will be possible, so I will make a bracket similar to the one in the picture for the opposite side, only it won't have the derailleur tab. So my question is, does anyone make a through axle internally geared 3 speed hub for a 150 millimeter drop out.??
I am also leaning towards the cyclone 3000 watt motor. Does anyone see a problem with running that mid drive into the stormy archer 3 speed.?
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Resizing? I'll get the hang of this eventually.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Ianhill » Nov 04, 2017 7:44 pm

Chain drive good effort fella get stuck in but the Sturmey archer and a 3000w cyclone will last you as long as a dragster engine it's got a few threads on here 800w is the upper limit of one them things, with 3000w it will pull any single speed threaded freewheel they only come in 16 tooth and up.
There's small threaded freewheels but they are for a fixie hub or a trials bmx tyoe sized thread.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 04, 2017 9:34 pm

One of my very first bikes was a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hubbed road bike, an Iverson do believe about as bomb proof as it gets, I'm not the only one that thinks this way. If anybody has seen these fail under load, I would love to have a look at the destruction.
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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 04, 2017 9:36 pm

The key to making those last is to only hammer on them in second gear. From everything that I have read so far and it makes sense.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 04, 2017 9:51 pm

And thanks for the input Ian, your article on rewinding the motor looks interesting, I'm going to check that out tonight, this is something I have been toying with as far as the commercial bafang. Mid drives the newest heavy duty model could be made almost bullet proof with a little bit of ingenuity and research. Going with the cyclone motor, I believe It can be adapted through a gear switch, easier than building 2 sets of wheels I definitely like the 21 inch better than the 19 in this frame .Depending on whether I'm going to be road riding or off road the gear switch is the way to go on my 21 inch wheel set build.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Ianhill » Nov 04, 2017 11:44 pm

No problem chain drive take some of it with a pinch of salt I'm still learning after all but the main thing is if there's room for extra copper mass the performance can be increased either towards torque increased wire diameter or increased rpm more turns per tooth but the stator is the limiting factor of any motor really so it's best to look at the laminates thickness, overall mass and shape then go from there the heat dissapation path is key for good burst current capability 's inrunners are very good for this, but pound for pound and equal size an out runner will have the highest output but a very poor heat path so ferrofluid is used to send heat through magnets that are rated for 80c not the best idea really for longevity without a highly nannyed motor.

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Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by chaindrive » Nov 09, 2017 7:46 pm

A visual comparison between a 26 mountain bike rim and a 21 inch motor cross ram.
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26 inch mountain bike rim compared to a 21 by 1.6 motocross rIm.
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