19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
iangreenhalgh
100 W
100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Dec 24, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by iangreenhalgh » Mar 02, 2017 8:41 pm

It would have been easier if the rims were a bit wider, these MC tires are really a bit wide for these BMX rims, but they seem to be fine now they are actually fitted. A very tight fit indeed, but once they were on, a nice feeling of achievement as my dad insisted they wouldn't fit as the rims were too narrow.

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6657
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Chalo » Mar 02, 2017 8:46 pm

Careful with your inflation pressure. Nylon rims are usually only rated for 35-40 psi, and mounting a wider than anticipated tire increases casing tension at any given pressure.

Another thing to be aware of is "creep"; the tendency for nylon among other materials to squish out of shape from a small but sustained force, like your e-bike sitting undisturbed for days or weeks as its weight causes a flat spot in each wheel. The flat spot is reversible, but it takes about as long to recover as it did to form.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
Rix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6297
Joined: Mar 29, 2012 11:26 am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Mar 02, 2017 8:50 pm

Chalo wrote:Careful with your inflation pressure. Nylon rims are usually only rated for 35-40 psi, and mounting a wider than anticipated tire increases casing tension at any given pressure.

Another thing to be aware of is "creep"; the tendency for nylon among other materials to squish out of shape from a small but sustained force, like your e-bike sitting undisturbed for days or weeks as its weight causes a flat spot in each wheel. The flat spot is reversible, but it takes about as long to recover as it did to form.
Great points Chalo, improper over inflation could lead to catastrophic tire failure.

iangreenhalgh
100 W
100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Dec 24, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by iangreenhalgh » Mar 02, 2017 9:48 pm

Cheers Chalo, I'm not sure what I inflated these to, I'll check.

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6657
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Chalo » Mar 03, 2017 12:13 am

iangreenhalgh wrote:Cheers Chalo, I'm not sure what I inflated these to, I'll check.
For what it's worth, I have a buddy who uses genuine Skyway wheels on some very heavy duty trailers, and he has determined to his satisfaction that they work with up to 60 psi with the tires he has (Maxxis Hookworm). On the other hand, I have blown high quality tires (Schwalbe Big Apple) off of genuine Skyway wheels at less than 60psi, when the customer requested such pressure and insisted that it worked for him.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

iangreenhalgh
100 W
100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Dec 24, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by iangreenhalgh » Mar 05, 2017 8:33 pm

Thanks for that tip Chalo, I intended to run them at a soft pressure for a nice soft ride, so 35-40 will do fine for me.

Jackrabbit
100 W
100 W
Posts: 108
Joined: Jan 20, 2013 10:10 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Jackrabbit » Mar 06, 2017 3:01 pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:LA ebike is also providing moto/ebike wheel building service..
Image
http://laebike.com/products/moto-wheel-lacing
Cheeky feckers! Those are my wheels and had naf all to do with them.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 25052
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by amberwolf » Mar 06, 2017 6:45 pm

Yours were built by http://www.m.abrammotorcycles.co.uk according to
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1091622
is that right? I looked around the forum to find your build pics to compare, but didn't see any. Do you have them posted up somewhere else, that they could have been stolen from?

BTW, I used google's image search-by-image to find "Pages that include matching images",
here and it found that same image quoted in your post used here
http://s725.photobucket.com/user/kobaya ... A.jpg.html
and here
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

and what appears to be a different angle of a similar but not identical wheelset here
http://voltriders.com/wp-content/uploads/IMG_0598.jpg
at yet another vendor, though the original page is gone it's archived here
http://web.archive.org/web/201312170946 ... page_id=31



FWIW, it seems to be too common for vendors to deceptively use pictures of other people' stuff as if it were their own, instead of just being honest and showing their own work. :( There is a relatively recent thread about Honda using images from ES member Circuit without permission. Have been others over the years including one Chinese site that basically duplicated Greenmachines' blog site on their own site, as if they had done all that work and writing, and other vendors that have stolen pics of people's builds on here and advertised that they were selling that bike, on ebay, alibaba, etc. (when obviously they couldn't be, as they didn't have the bike to sell). HPC's bike pics and info pages have been stolen that way, too.

So if those are your pics, at least you've got a lot of company. :(

ecycler
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 864
Joined: Apr 03, 2014 9:30 pm
Location: USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by ecycler » Mar 07, 2017 1:03 pm

iangreenhalgh wrote:I'm working on building a bike for myself using 16 inch Michelin MC tyres on 20 inch BMX wheels. The wheels are copies of the Skyway Tuff, very solid and robust but the rims are not all that wide, 1.4-1.5", I forgot to measure them. It was really hard work to get the wheels onto these rims but with a couple of tyre irons, a load of liquid soap, a rubber mallet and a lot of swearing I managed it. I used standard MC inner tubes, much thicker than bicycle ones. Not sure how much this setup weighs, but I'm going for robustness and no flats so added weight is a given.
...
This is the frame I'm going to put the wheels on, it's a nice strong downhill frame, nothing special but it cost me 22ukp, the forks are Suntour, fine for the type of riding I will be doing. It has the brackets for disk brakes so I took a hacksaw and cut off the lugs the rim brakes mounted to in order to create enough clearance for the wide MC tires.
Great work. Let us know how it works out. You are probably going to need some shorter crank arms if you want to avoid pedal strikes or even be able to pedal while turning.
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

iangreenhalgh
100 W
100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Dec 24, 2015 8:12 pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by iangreenhalgh » Mar 07, 2017 7:08 pm

That's a good point, I will most likely need shorter cranks, yes.

Jackrabbit
100 W
100 W
Posts: 108
Joined: Jan 20, 2013 10:10 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Jackrabbit » Mar 08, 2017 5:00 pm

amberwolf wrote:Yours were built by http://www.m.abrammotorcycles.co.uk according to
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1091622
is that right? I looked around the forum to find your build pics to compare, but didn't see any. Do you have them posted up somewhere else, that they could have been stolen from?

BTW, I used google's image search-by-image to find "Pages that include matching images",
here and it found that same image quoted in your post used here
http://s725.photobucket.com/user/kobaya ... A.jpg.html
and here
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

and what appears to be a different angle of a similar but not identical wheelset here
http://voltriders.com/wp-content/uploads/IMG_0598.jpg
at yet another vendor, though the original page is gone it's archived here
http://web.archive.org/web/201312170946 ... page_id=31



FWIW, it seems to be too common for vendors to deceptively use pictures of other people' stuff as if it were their own, instead of just being honest and showing their own work. :( There is a relatively recent thread about Honda using images from ES member Circuit without permission. Have been others over the years including one Chinese site that basically duplicated Greenmachines' blog site on their own site, as if they had done all that work and writing, and other vendors that have stolen pics of people's builds on here and advertised that they were selling that bike, on ebay, alibaba, etc. (when obviously they couldn't be, as they didn't have the bike to sell). HPC's bike pics and info pages have been stolen that way, too.

So if those are your pics, at least you've got a lot of company. :(
Yes, my wheels were built by Carl Abrams. I can't remember exactly where I posted the original picture, I think it was on this thread but can't be sure, it was a couple of years ago now.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 25052
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by amberwolf » Mar 09, 2017 1:21 am

I'd searched but didnt' find any pics in your posts before, but then I found they're hosted on Photobucket, whose scripting won't let them show up in my browser directly. I *can* see PB images from a google search, in general, in the Image Search, cuz they're cached on google for the previews.

But I did eventually find the post with it here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 9#p1028669
by searching for the kobayashi PB link. :)

So yeah, you ought to talk to that vendor about claiming work as their own that isn't theirs at all.

That's the kind of dishonesty we don't need from vendors around here, especially when they are also ES members, or at least represented by one. It is EvolutionGTS that represents LAEbike here on ES. Don't know if he runs it or not.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/membe ... le&u=35604

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3340
Joined: Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by macribs » Mar 09, 2017 5:29 am

Before temperature raises more I will remind you all that many e-commerce sites and even e-bikes sites are paying to have their site made, or parts of their site. They might not even be aware of any wrong doing. Worth noting before slinging insults or starting a blame game.

Jackrabbit
100 W
100 W
Posts: 108
Joined: Jan 20, 2013 10:10 am
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Jackrabbit » Mar 09, 2017 8:22 am

You know wether you supplied the items on your website or not. If you are showing something as an example of a service you provide when you had nothing to do with it, it implies that you can't work to that standard as if you could you'd show your own build.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 25052
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by amberwolf » Mar 09, 2017 1:40 pm

macribs wrote:Before temperature raises more I will remind you all that many e-commerce sites and even e-bikes sites are paying to have their site made, or parts of their site. They might not even be aware of any wrong doing. Worth noting before slinging insults or starting a blame game.
Even if they had someone else build the site for them, I'd expect them to check it over to be sure the info and media they supplied had been used and correctly put up on the site. Whoever "runs" a company (especially small ones where it's possible to be involved in the whole thing, especially at startup) is as responsible for the stuff as any contractor doing things for them.

There always has to be some trust between contractor and employer, but at some point the employer has to check the work. If they don't check it, then they accept it as-is, along with any problems built into it--whatever that work is.

The best thing at this point is for Jackrabbit to politely point out to the company in question that there is a problem, so that company can fix it, and check for other such problems before they become an issue.

User avatar
macribs
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3340
Joined: Jul 22, 2014 5:59 pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by macribs » Mar 09, 2017 2:02 pm

[+] TLDR
Well that is your right to feel like you do JR & amberW. What we feel me included and what is actually the law or correct interpretation of the law is for the court to settle, or for the two parties involved to agree on, what me and you mean and feel is irrelevant. If copyright breach has taken place regarding the photos the normal way of handling such event is to make formal contact either as the owner of said copyright material or on behalf of said owner and inform the website about the breach. Usually the website will make changes asap. Case can either stop there after request has been met or owner of the illegally used material can demand a compensation for what usage already has taken place. Either the two parties work out a deal between themselves, or the decide to settle case in court or via legal aid. Settling in court will cost at least one of the parties a whole lot. And even settling outside of court can easily cost more then what is worth spending regarding value of the breach.
What I try to say is that is not worth it to start blame game or for others to get involved in this. Let the parties find a solution that works for both of them. Posts like these often spirals and go wide. Way off topic and that will cause frustration for other readers later on.

User avatar
joe81
100 W
100 W
Posts: 131
Joined: Oct 11, 2015 7:38 am
Location: Berlin

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by joe81 » Mar 09, 2017 9:02 pm

start a name and shame thread if you feel the urge to do it (which i could understand to some extend..), but don't destroy this one.

User avatar
Bison_69
100 W
100 W
Posts: 145
Joined: Mar 09, 2009 2:18 pm
Location: Quebec, QC / Canada

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Bison_69 » Mar 18, 2017 2:18 am

Hi there,

Here is a very handy component for you guys if you want your front motorcycle rim as solid as the rear
wheel mounted with 10G spokes...

It is a font wheel hub compatible with 10G spokes available at Eastgem...
http://www.eastgem.net/hub.html

I just got one and it is great... very good quality and affordable.

For the mid-drive eBikers... Eastgem has also a special rear wheel hub compatible with 10G spokes too.
http://www.eastgem.net/rear-hub.html

Just chat with Alex on-line or use the e-mail contact box.
CityTrackPro 2015 bike (with built-in torque arms) http://citytrackpro.com/
QS MOTOR 205 H50 V3 hub-motor
KELLY 7230S 24-72V 300A Controller w/Bluetooth coms
Large screen CycleAnalyst
Batteries LiFePO4 24S1P
SolidWorks Designer - electric Trike and new eBike frame for a Montreal friend well known on the forum.
Free Personal 3D Drawings download http://grabcad.com/sg/projects
"Your tiny little human brains. How do you get around in those things?"

User avatar
Chalo
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6657
Joined: Apr 29, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Chalo » Mar 18, 2017 3:47 am

Bison_69 wrote:Here is a very handy component for you guys if you want your front motorcycle rim as solid as the rear
wheel mounted with 10G spokes...

It is a font wheel hub compatible with 10G spokes available at Eastgem...
http://www.eastgem.net/hub.html
That appears to be a completely normal thru-axle bicycle hub that's drilled out for oversized spokes. So if you get the spokes as tight as required to keep them tight (250kgf, give or take), there's a strong likelihood of tearing out the hub flanges.

If you want to use motorcycle rims and motorcycle spokes, use motorcycle hubs. That's the way it works.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

User avatar
madin88
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2584
Joined: May 27, 2013 2:02 am
Location: Austria

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by madin88 » Mar 18, 2017 3:54 am

Chalo wrote: That appears to be a completely normal thru-axle bicycle hub that's drilled out for oversized spokes. So if you get the spokes as tight as required to keep them tight (250kgf, give or take), there's a strong likelihood of tearing out the hub flanges.

If you want to use motorcycle rims and motorcycle spokes, use motorcycle hubs. That's the way it works.
well explained Chalo!
13GA is the maximum size for bicycle hubs and rims in my opinion. everything larger isn't needed - even for high power e-bikes (aside from heavy hub motors with >1500W -> here i would use minimum 12GA laced in moped rims)
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

User avatar
Rix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 6297
Joined: Mar 29, 2012 11:26 am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Rix » Mar 18, 2017 9:59 am

Chalo wrote:
Bison_69 wrote:Here is a very handy component for you guys if you want your front motorcycle rim as solid as the rear
wheel mounted with 10G spokes...

It is a font wheel hub compatible with 10G spokes available at Eastgem...
http://www.eastgem.net/hub.html
That appears to be a completely normal thru-axle bicycle hub that's drilled out for oversized spokes. So if you get the spokes as tight as required to keep them tight (250kgf, give or take), there's a strong likelihood of tearing out the hub flanges.

If you want to use motorcycle rims and motorcycle spokes, use motorcycle hubs. That's the way it works.
SO True, as I have learned, in addition to drilling out the flange holes for larger spokes, also, running a MC rim with MC spokes on a MTB Hub, there is way less flex then with even the biggest DH rims. My very first MC rim laced to a hub, the flange cracked on me during truing. With extra large spoke nipples, 14g spoke with proper truing is way more than adequate.

User avatar
kneedeep
100 W
100 W
Posts: 214
Joined: Jan 24, 2017 1:59 am
Location: Ontario Canada

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by kneedeep » Apr 05, 2017 11:00 am

kneedeep wrote:
Rix wrote:Just stumbled across this vendor. Looks like he stocks 19x1.6 and 17x1.6 rims laced to 20mmx110mm DH hubs. https://electricrt.myshopify.com/collec ... ont-wheels. Don't know anything about this company though. Has anyone had any experience?
I ordered the front I will review upon arrival..
Check my Chinese build pics posted for the 19" front and the 17" that I did not order :shock: lol
Chinese Ebay build in progress https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=86149 , been through half a dozen scooter ebikes..No More of those.

I like to build it better than I can buy it. I like to think outside the box...Come to think of it where is that box?

User avatar
Offroader
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2017
Joined: Sep 08, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Offroader » Apr 19, 2017 11:16 am

Just need your advice here on measuring spokes. I'm ordering custom spokes and need a couple of measurements for a cromotor.

Would you say the best spoke angle is? Or just use 90 degrees? I've actually used 80 degree in the past but not sure if I should go with that again.

In the picture below for measurement B, how would you determine this? Just use the cromotor flange thickness and add a little? But how much would you add?


Thanks


Image

User avatar
madin88
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2584
Joined: May 27, 2013 2:02 am
Location: Austria

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by madin88 » Apr 19, 2017 11:31 am

B = 3-4mm i would say.
the supplier of my spokes mentioned that this is already the minimum possible length for the bending machine.
If you going to place all spokes on the outside of the flange, a larger angle would make sense.
- Votec V-FR frame / MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R -> approved as L1e moped and fully road legal in EU :)
- Vector white / MXUS 4T / 24" Hookworms / Adaptto Max-E / 22s11p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

User avatar
Offroader
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2017
Joined: Sep 08, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by Offroader » Apr 19, 2017 11:50 am

madin88 wrote:B = 3-4mm i would say.
the supplier of my spokes mentioned that this is already the minimum possible length for the bending machine.
If you going to place all spokes on the outside of the flange, a larger angle would make sense.
Thanks, yeah that makes sense. I just called Buchanan here in USA about length B. They said the last time I ordered it was super small or something they told me. Which I believe like you said may be the smallest you could go, so I'll just leave it the same.

The reason I got 80 degrees is last time I sent them a spoke sample and they determined 80 degrees.

I plan on alternating my spokes, so maybe I should get half with 90 degree and half with 80 degree? I'm not sure how much the spokes will actually bend, and just want to get what is safe.

Post Reply