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Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 16 2014 5:18pm
by Wilco
How upgradeable is the hub motor? If I just found another 36v hub motor with a higher wattage rating (say 500), would it be more or less plug and play (at least from the electrical side of things)? Granted, it would drain the battery faster, but I'm guessing as long as the voltage matches, it should still work.

I'm trying to decide if I should buy one, but the 350 watts is turning me off. It would be fine for now, but I think I would eventually want to upgrade to 500 watts 6-8 months later if I could. Anyone know if that would be feasible?

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 16 2014 11:28pm
by jateureka
NO, it is the controller that determines the amount of power (watts) delivered to the motor.
Have you riden the 350W Neo? WHy is 350W putting you off?

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 17 2014 3:17am
by d8veh
That's right. The motor is capable of a lot more. It's the controoll system that limits it on speed and power. You need more current to get more climbing power, which you can probably get by soldering the shunt. More speed is tricky. There was a long thread about it somewhere on here, but I can't remember the final solution. If you go for more power, your battery won't last so long - in range and life. It would be much better to sell your bike and use the money to build a more powerful one, if that's what you want.

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 17 2014 3:45am
by Dark Knight
Wilco - no need to change the hub if you're just looking for a little more grunt. All you need to do is feed it with 48v instead of 36. You can do these by building a small booster battery - li ion cells in 4s4p configuration or get the neo nitro battery which is 48v stock standard. You'll then be good for over 25mph/40kph. There are at least a couple of guys doing this in oz. Of course, if you're looking to really up the power...you're probably better off going with a different bike/frame altogether...as d8veh states above. Something like the Phasor/raptor/greyborg...
If you're keen on the 48v option, I'll see if I can find the links where people have done it...

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 17 2014 4:32am
by PRW

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 17 2014 7:08am
by Melbourne
I been running at 48v 15AH sunthing lifepo4 for a week and loving it. Lots of grunt/torque and speed at 38-40kph. Prefer this to my bafang mid-drive 36v 350w. Only thing i don't like is the noise... two lycra called me a cheater in one week of commuting. Starting to hate lyrcas again..might switch back to the stealthy bafang next week.

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 17 2014 7:38am
by Dark Knight
Melbourne wrote:
I been running at 48v 15AH sunthing lifepo4 for a week and loving it. Lots of grunt/torque and speed at 38-40kph. Prefer this to my bafang mid-drive 36v 350w. Only thing i don't like is the noise... two lycra called me a cheater in one week of commuting. Starting to hate lyrcas again..might switch back to the stealthy bafang next week.
I knew PRW would come through with the link...on ya mate!
Melbourne - I didn't notice much extra noise when I gave the 48v a crack...but must admit I was too busy giggling at the 40+ speeds on a turnkey bike...I know that ain't much compared to the Cro hubbies and the like but it's damn good for a 20kg stock bike. Oh, and fork the lycras, they're just jealous :twisted:
Apologies for hijacking the thread wilco - but do have a look at the whirlpool thread though...there's a wealth of info on the BH Neo bike if you decide to go that route.

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 18 2014 3:29pm
by Wilco
jateureka wrote:NO, it is the controller that determines the amount of power (watts) delivered to the motor.
Have you riden the 350W Neo? WHy is 350W putting you off?
I guess it's not really putting me off dramatically, I just figure the extra power would be handy in my scenario: I'll be going shorter distances, so I'm not as worried about the reduced range, but I do live at the top of some very significant hill climbs.

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 18 2014 3:33pm
by Wilco
Thanks everyone for all the details! I'm liking this 48v OEM option (admittedly without BH/Easy Motion's blessing). Part of the reason I like this bike is for the integrated design, so it wouldn't be worth the bolt-on approach of another battery for me personally. Is it really as simple as dropping in the 48v battery, or does it require swapping/modifying additional parts? It also looks like the Nitro isn't available in the US, so I might have a hard time sourcing the battery. Might be worth it though, will have to investigate further...

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 18 2014 9:19pm
by Dark Knight
Wilco wrote:Thanks everyone for all the details! I'm liking this 48v OEM option (admittedly without BH/Easy Motion's blessing). Part of the reason I like this bike is for the integrated design, so it wouldn't be worth the bolt-on approach of another battery for me personally. Is it really as simple as dropping in the 48v battery, or does it require swapping/modifying additional parts? It also looks like the Nitro isn't available in the US, so I might have a hard time sourcing the battery. Might be worth it though, will have to investigate further...
For the Aussie spec bikes, it's a simple plug and play. I suspect the US specced bikes will be pretty much the same - only differences that I'm aware of are that the US bikes come with a throttle and have a higher continous power threshhold (350 versus 250 in Oz/europe). And yes, the Nitro battery is a beetch to get hold of...and costs a small fortune. Was hoping we'd be able to source the manufacturer of the battery 'case' and put the cells in ourselves (13s3p config) but thus far, no luck.
Just bear in mind with this solution, it hasn't been extensively tested and it may invalidate your warranty. We know it 'works', but does it create undue stress on the stock motor etc., that question remains a work in progress...

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 19 2014 5:41am
by d8veh
Rather than a complete 48v battery, you can add a 3-cell booster battery in one of those tool-bags. A couple of guys have done it on the UK pedelecs forum on other bikes if you want to do a search there for "booster battery"

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 19 2014 6:45am
by Melbourne
d8veh wrote:Rather than a complete 48v battery, you can add a 3-cell booster battery in one of those tool-bags. A couple of guys have done it on the UK pedelecs forum on other bikes if you want to do a search there for "booster battery"
I don't think is worth it.. running at 48v chew up the battery very quickly. I brought a sunthing 15ah48v for $350 and battery sits in the pannier rack...gives me just under 80km range.

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 20 2014 5:14am
by d8veh
Melbourne wrote:
d8veh wrote:Rather than a complete 48v battery, you can add a 3-cell booster battery in one of those tool-bags. A couple of guys have done it on the UK pedelecs forum on other bikes if you want to do a search there for "booster battery"
I don't think is worth it.. running at 48v chew up the battery very quickly. I brought a sunthing 15ah48v for $350 and battery sits in the pannier rack...gives me just under 80km range.
How does it chew up the battery? The current is the same with or without the booster. The main battery doesn't know the difference! Cost of a booster is a fraction of $350, a lot lighter and easier to install.

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 20 2014 5:26am
by Dark Knight
d8veh wrote:
Melbourne wrote:
d8veh wrote:Rather than a complete 48v battery, you can add a 3-cell booster battery in one of those tool-bags. A couple of guys have done it on the UK pedelecs forum on other bikes if you want to do a search there for "booster battery"
I don't think is worth it.. running at 48v chew up the battery very quickly. I brought a sunthing 15ah48v for $350 and battery sits in the pannier rack...gives me just under 80km range.
How does it chew up the battery? The current is the same with or without the booster. The main battery doesn't know the difference! Cost of a booster is a fraction of $350, a lot lighter and easier to install.
By upping to 48v top speed increases and if you cruise around at 40kph rather than 30 you end up drawing more current...it doesn't seem to be limited by the controller. If you added the booster pack and stuck to the same speed you'd have more range as you'd have more wh of capacity. From what I've heard, the experience of those that add a booster is less range as a result of higher speeds...

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 21 2014 4:48am
by d8veh
The current's still limited by the controller, so maximum current will be the same. You have a higher voltage, so for the same power, you would be using less current, so in some circumstances you would be using less current and in others more, but the maximum would be the same. It certainly wouldn't do anything to chew up the battery.

Re: Easy Motion Neo - Upgrading the hub motor?

Posted: May 21 2014 7:53am
by Dark Knight
The current may well be limited by the controller but that limit appears to be higher than the 36v battery (technically 37v nominal as is samsung 22e 18650 cells in 10s4p configuration) actually forces the motor to pull.
Looking at speeds and power usage - the bh neo bike in standard guise maxes out at approximately 31kph (18mph). Looking at the graphs in this thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... hs#p813487 sustaining that speed requires 300W which would require just over 8 amps. This averages out at just under 10wh per kilometre travelled. Adding in a 3s4p booster pack in series for total 47.1v nominal (13s4p configuration) allows speeds of 40kph (25mph) and to sustain these speeds requires 600W - implying a current draw of just under 13 amps. This averages out at 15wh per kilometre travelled. The increase in wh capacity from 326wh to 414wh is not enough to offset the increased watts used to sustain the higher speed. You will get approx 33 kilometres of travel @ 31kph in the standard config and 27.5 kilometres of travel @ 40kph with the booster...
This is supported by the anecdotal evidence of those that have fitted booster packs...so although the controller may limit max current, it's limit appears to be higher than what the standard 37v can push the motor to draw. There are theories that the speed is actually limited by the kv of the hub itself...and hence the higher volts allows a higher speed.
If you were to add the booster in and limit your speed to the original 31kph then yes you would go further as a result of the higher wh capacity and your current draw would be less due to greater volts.