Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Allex » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:57 am

Offroader wrote:Ap0fls, that is interesting with the heat. Are you 100% sure you are pushing the same phase amps?

Do you have OVS set the same on both controllers? OVS really overheats the motor. Does Sabvotan have OVS?

What about PWR setting, this makes a huge difference in acceleration and how powerful the motor feels, I assume this means it causes more heat. Is this set the same on both controllers?

I would compare both bikes for how the power feels, or dyno the bikes or something.

There is a chance that the adaptto could be running the motor with more power that is causing it to heat more.


PWR can make a huge diff yes. And also the other two. Keep in mind that this controller may overshoot the current by a lot. When I set my midi-e to 120A it spikes to 147A!
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Allex » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:58 am

agedashidofu wrote:Speaking of which - completely different topic - related to the Adaptto BMS

Need to pick the brains of the Adaptto owners in the thread. I'm actually assembling a fresh battery pack (which I plan to switch around my bikes - and only one uses Adaptto.)

If I use Adaptto BMS, do I need to use the Adaptto charging coil in order for the BMS to work?

The plan is to use Adaptto BMS and Cycle Satiator charging connector.

My thought is that as long as the battery & BMS is connected to the controller (hence powering the controller) - then the BMS function - including the balancing would work right?

Many thanks in advance!


The balancing will work so you can use Adaptto BMS but IF you happen to overcharge one cell, the charger/BMS will not cut off the charging process so you have to be careful there.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby ap0f1s » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:14 am

Offroader wrote:Ap0fls, that is interesting with the heat. Are you 100% sure you are pushing the same phase amps?

Do you have OVS set the same on both controllers? OVS really overheats the motor. Does Sabvotan have OVS?

What about PWR setting, this makes a huge difference in acceleration and how powerful the motor feels, I assume this means it causes more heat. Is this set the same on both controllers?

I would compare both bikes for how the power feels, or dyno the bikes or something.

There is a chance that the adaptto could be running the motor with more power that is causing it to heat more.


Bike with adaptto has no OVS on. Sabvoton OVS is called FLUX but is also off.
Green bike(adaptto) and Black\white(sabvoton), has the same setting, later i upload a screen settings on both controller before a test. Of what i remember is about 75a amp battery and ~150-160 phase amp.
Max peak power while testing on sabvoton has 6,3kw on adaptto 6,5kw.
Last edited by ap0f1s on Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby agedashidofu » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:26 am

Allex wrote:
agedashidofu wrote:Speaking of which - completely different topic - related to the Adaptto BMS

Need to pick the brains of the Adaptto owners in the thread. I'm actually assembling a fresh battery pack (which I plan to switch around my bikes - and only one uses Adaptto.)

If I use Adaptto BMS, do I need to use the Adaptto charging coil in order for the BMS to work?

The plan is to use Adaptto BMS and Cycle Satiator charging connector.

My thought is that as long as the battery & BMS is connected to the controller (hence powering the controller) - then the BMS function - including the balancing would work right?

Many thanks in advance!


The balancing will work so you can use Adaptto BMS but IF you happen to overcharge one cell, the charger/BMS will not cut off the charging process so you have to be careful there.


Allex,

Thank you...this is extremely helpful. I think we can detect if one cell is almost fully charged via the display right?

Also - when this happens what's the best way to proceed? I had initially thought that the Adaptto / BMS would just flow the charge (from the cells w/ higher voltage) to the other cells @ the specified balancing voltage through the setting...

Many thanks in advance for your advice.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Allex » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:51 am

Yes, you can see the status of each cell on the display.
The BMS works like any other BMS systems, it only drains the cells and do not transfer the energy to other, lower cells.
The discharge of the cells is a very slow process so it will never drain them fast enough to compensate the much higher current that is coming from the charger. So in this case you just need to disconnect the charger and then drain the higher cell.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby ridethelightning » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:45 am

ap0f1s wrote:
Offroader wrote:Ap0fls, that is interesting with the heat. Are you 100% sure you are pushing the same phase amps?

Do you have OVS set the same on both controllers? OVS really overheats the motor. Does Sabvotan have OVS?

What about PWR setting, this makes a huge difference in acceleration and how powerful the motor feels, I assume this means it causes more heat. Is this set the same on both controllers?

I would compare both bikes for how the power feels, or dyno the bikes or something.

There is a chance that the adaptto could be running the motor with more power that is causing it to heat more.


Bike with adaptto has no OVS on. Sabvoton OVS is called FLUX but is also off.
Green bike(adaptto) and Black\white(sabvoton), has the same setting, later i upload a screen settings on both controller before a test. Of what i remember is about 75a amp battery and ~150-160 phase amp.
Max peak power while testing on sabvoton has 6,3kw on adaptto 6,5kw.

have you tried swapping the phase wires around for different hall offset values?
have you got the correct temp sensor selected? there ar 2, one in motor, one in controller.
with wrong ind timing values, the temps can get high very fast.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby tisher » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:33 am

Sabvoton vs Adaptto

1st ride:


2nd ride:


Sabvoton: 41C motor body, 110 inside
Adaptto: 53C motor body, 140 inside
Last edited by tisher on Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Offroader » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:24 am

An incorrect IND timing can really overheat your motor. When I did autodetect with my MXUS Turbo, it overheated so quickly until I lowered the IND timing from like 12 to 5. SO you may want to play around with this setting by adjusting it up a little from where you have it, then adjusting it down and see if the heat is any different. I wouldn't rely just on spinning the wheel and adjusting it like that because it is hard to fine tune it.
This is why the autodetect can't set IND correctly because I guess you can't just go by looking at wattage.


I think you should consider swapping the rear wheel between bikes and leave everything else unchanged to see if it could be an issue with the halls. But you can also try using the 2nd hall wires to see if that changes anything. That will at least help rule out those kinds of issues.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby ap0f1s » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:55 am

I try many settings, but is not even close sabovoton. Myabe because I live in the mountains and i use my e-bike on heavy terrain. Like this
Image
When i use adaptto on the road is not that annoying, but in the mountains is.
This problem has many people they do not realize that they have overheating problem, but when they drive side to side with sabovoton they see that some think is not ride.
Now many people say you must tune you adaptto, so i tried, i read over 183 page this topic. I ask doctorbass, artur from vektor and this not help much.
If someone on this forum has Adaptto and sabovoton tried compare this two controller and write how it came out.
Last edited by ap0f1s on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby tomgda » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:17 pm

I had the same problem as apofis.
I wrote about it above. viewtopic.php?p=1314344#p1314344
I was forced to sell adaptto (with heartache).
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby notger » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:17 pm

Same here, thats why i tried to make a seperate "fine tuning-thread"
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=87712

there is quite some useful information in this thread, but i guess you found that already ?

it really a pitty that adaptto controllers are that hard to setup in a good way, cause i just love everything else around (chargingcoild, bms,display...) my two adapttos but also experience hight Motor heat compared to kellyontrollers i used before.

But my story is actually quite different cause i use them with mid-drives.

I think Motor and Controller -Pros are able to set adapttos up with a lot of trial-and-error settings but for me as controller-Noob (and i'm not planning to get a PRo actually) it really hard to understadn all the links of the different settings and their changes.

"Torcman" a German RC-Motor-Producer an Mid-drive-Kit-Producer (Torcman e-bone) is still using Adaptto and it seems to work fine and without heat Problems for him, But i guess he really knows what he is doing acording to settings.

Notger

PS.: do you the Adaptto Freaks out there actually offer Adaptto Setting Support ?
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Offroader » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:48 pm

I think we really need to figure out if there is some truth to adaptto and overheating.

We need to conduct some kind of scientific tests where we measure the phase amp current, and then dyno the motor and see what exactly is going on here. But it needs to be done in a controlled way so we know for sure what is happening.

There must be a way we can figure this out.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby tisher » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:51 pm

No chance.
We try to solve it for several months.
Sabvoton always has a lower temperature and always set motor correct after autoset.
Probably Adaptto uses some inefficient version of FOC with many unnecessary and useless custom settings...
Last edited by tisher on Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby ap0f1s » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:06 pm

I am not a expert, but a I'm 99% sure that if you tune adaptto well, it will be worse than sabvoton in terms of overheating.
Maybe i am wrong, so please give me straight anser how can i tune my adaptto, I tried so many settings with dozen people and not even once was better than sabvoton. Who is cheaper and with one button i can tune my qs 205 v3 with my controller.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Cowardlyduck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:43 pm

I have to agree with most of the comments here.
My motor gets way hotter than it should, even when I'm running Ferro Fluid, Heat-sinks and cooling fans while riding in the snow I still hit 150C.

I think the Adaptto is for some reason much more sensitive to Hall sensor placement and interference than all other controllers. Maybe this is because it's trying to do things differently or better in some way, but either way the end result is it doesn't work well for most people with real world motors that are not made with perfectly positioned hall sensors and no interference on the halls signal.

The most frustrating thing for me is I've re-built my Fighter around the Mini-e and have a Midi-e ready to go for my Alpha. I need to get them running better as I am committed to Adaptto now. :cry:

Cheers
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby csc » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:45 am

Tisher, ap0f1s, Tomgda, as said by others above, ind and pwr are a key to understand what's happening (assuming you don't use flux weakening). i'll add the angle corr manually tuned (check doctorbass videos). Would you please give precisely the values for your angle corr, ind and pwr timings ? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby notger » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:19 am

I know this Thread is the Owners Thread.
but with 185 pages its getting really hard to read.

so if a dicussion or input about fine tuning starts up again here let's please use the

"fine tune thread " wich is still quite clearly arranged.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/posting.php?mode=reply&f=30&t=87712

i just copied the Advanced Setup manual their again including basic explaination of
Angle corr., Angle corr2, PWR timing and PWR timing2

so if someone has to share som more detailed how-to's to those specific setting please share them in the fine-tune-thread.
specially the trial-and-error settings like PWR timing would be nice to know how the pros of you do it step by step.
But quite some is allready coverd in the mentioned thread.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby bionicon » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:58 am

with me its not the motor that gets hot, its my mid-e that is getting hot? :cry:
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby litespeed » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:32 pm

That is usually through winds that causes heat in one or another. Generally speaking low turn winds are harder (3T) on the controller and high turn winds are harder on the motor (6T) if memory serves assuming the unit is tuned right.

As per the latest topic my MaxE/QS 205 3T seams to work extremely well together as far as power and heat is concerned. I tuned it per Doc Bass's recommendations but I often wonder if another controller would be quicker throttle response or more powerful.

Kinda falls under, "if it's not broke, don't fix it!"

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Volts » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:19 am

Having problem getting the controller to charge used a cheap low amp power supply at 50v, which caused one of the mosfets to blow, replaced the mosfet and currently have a eaton apr48 powering the charge circle but controller keeps behaving like the charging function is turned of even when connected and powered on in the charging display, help don't know if my controller is broken or what
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby csc » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:55 am

Hi Volts. Of course you have checked in "controller setup" / "charge settings" that charge is still enabled ? if this is not the problem, have you tried a "reset" in controller setup / advanced settings ?
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby ridethelightning » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:37 am

bionicon wrote:with me its not the motor that gets hot, its my mid-e that is getting hot? :cry:

you got an easy problem to fix then, just make some alumium angle heat sinks with thermal past, put it where it gets wind. issue will vanish.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Offroader » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:24 pm

I think what we would have to do is setup a bike on a dyno, and then see how much wattage is being pulled out of the battery graphed to how much power the motor is putting out.

Then switch to a sabovoton and run the same tests.

This would tell us if one of the controllers uses more or less wattage for the power output of the motor.
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Volts » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:27 pm

Just tryed a reset in "advanced settings" still nothing, had a look at the "debug monitor" under the bms and it shows "no" for all parameters including Charing would this have anything to do with it
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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Postby Volts » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:13 am

I put a multi meter on the charge circle and it's closed should it be open? Meaning one of the components on the board is broken or can it be a software problem?
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