Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

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notger   100 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by notger » Aug 30 2018 1:17pm

Allex wrote:
Aug 30 2018 12:28pm
The guts of the beast
What Beast is it ?
A new one or the MAX-e

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inedible   100 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by inedible » Aug 30 2018 2:02pm

Oooh! That looks new! I like how the FETs are heatsunk into the top of the chassis, that'll provide a bigger surface area for heatsinks.

What power is that rated for?

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by icherouveim » Aug 31 2018 12:19am

inedible wrote:
Aug 30 2018 2:02pm
Oooh! That looks new! I like how the FETs are heatsunk into the top of the chassis, that'll provide a bigger surface area for heatsinks.

What power is that rated for?
From what they have said it will be capable for more than 20Kw.
Probably they will limit the power to a lower point for longer life.

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by madin88 » Aug 31 2018 7:13am

inedible wrote:
Aug 30 2018 2:02pm
What power is that rated for?
in russia board they mentioned about 20-30kw continuous (depending on the cooling) and 60kW peak
the bus bars have 40mm²
It is impressive how much more power you can get out from same 18 pcs Mosfet's with good drivers and design.

thread: https://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index. ... msg1189720
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Allex » Sep 01 2018 3:32am

Looks like they will redesign the model in above picture as this was a test sample.
The new one will be more compact, similar to max-e.
Power: 25-50kW continous with cooling and 70kW for 10seconds.

Expected time to new samples: 3 months
So my guess it will be avail for public efter next summer at best =)

This is clearly motorcycle territory so they will develop a smaller one with 15-30kW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by madin88 » Sep 01 2018 3:44am

Allex wrote:
Sep 01 2018 3:32am
Looks like they will redesign the model in above picture as this was a test sample.
The new one will be more compact, similar to max-e.
Power: 25-50kW continous with cooling and 70kW for 10seconds.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :D
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 01 2018 4:15am

Allex wrote:
Sep 01 2018 3:32am
Power: 25-50kW continous with cooling and 70kW for 10seconds.

This is clearly motorcycle territory so they will develop a smaller one with 15-30kW
Or small car territory!
I can just imagine a small car with 4 x huge in wheel water cooled hub motors and 4 of these controllers linked together. If they can peak at 70kW for 10sec, that's 280kW :!: :!: :!:
That would certainly get a small ~650Kg hatchback rocketing along!

Any idea if they will be allowing multiple of them to be linked like the current controllers? And would it be possible with 4?

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by madin88 » Sep 01 2018 4:31am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Sep 01 2018 4:15am
Any idea if they will be allowing multiple of them to be linked like the current controllers? And would it be possible with 4?

Cheers
The so called 2WD feature of actual controllers only was made for bikes, because it is not possible to set both controllers to work exactly similar (for instance when having both motors in the rear on a trike or on a 4-wheel vehicle).

I hope they will fix this issue on the new generation.
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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fsmuggen   10 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by fsmuggen » Sep 08 2018 4:24pm

Hm.. Im thinking, mabe I should build a electric rickshaw, The "rickshaw" from hell, with dual drive controllers

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inedible   100 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by inedible » Sep 18 2018 12:17pm

So here's a new one I haven't seen before...

Took the bike for a spin yesterday, was giving it some juice, trying to see if i could squeeze some extra power out using OVS settings. I wasn't doing anything tooooo crazy, but I did give it wide-open throttle for about 15 seconds and it got up to 134A.

Anyway, I go around a corner then KA-CHUNK! KA-CHUNK! The wheel is cogging hard, sounds like it's missing a phase. Tried turning it off and on, tried the autodetect, which gave me the error: "Halls E1". Couldn't get it to work on sensorless mode, hobbled the rest of the way back to my home at <10KM/h with loud clunking.

Looking up this error on here and the russian forum and started getting really worried, everyone was saying this is usually caused by a faulty controller. Took a look at it this morning and I found the problem:

Image

It appears one of my phase wires has come loose!

Image

On further inspection, it looks like it desoldered itself from the controller end. This solder hasn't broken, it's a melted glob.

So, that's amusing, but also deeply unsettling. I've never had much faith in these XT150 connectors to begin with, but now I'm actually afraid to use them.

I'm going to solder this back on, because what other choice do I have, but this wasn't my faulty soldering that's the problem. This is the factory installed end. So, I'm pretty uncomfortable getting back on the thing once I fix it.

Has anyone else had phase wires come unsoldered? Can anyone recommend better connectors?

litespeed   100 kW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by litespeed » Sep 18 2018 8:56pm

Go with Castle Creations 6mm ones.....http://www.castlecreations.com/en/acces ... lets-6-5mm

Available any/everywhere.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 19 2018 2:23am

Yeah the factory soldering can be a bit dodgy sometimes.

XT150's can handle 250A peaks and 150 cont. without issue if the wire gauge is thick enough and the soldering job is good.
I like to use 8AWG silicone wire and when soldering heat the crap out of the connector till the solder is bubbling in the cup. Then plunge a nicely fluxed wire into the cup and keep heating until you start to see the solder wick up into the wire.
You will know you have a good connection when pulling on it with all your strength does not let it come out and the wire on the back of the plug is stiff from solder.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

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The stuff I make and modify.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Allex » Sep 19 2018 3:12am

Later batches of adaptto used non original amass xt150 connector, their quality is not good. Contact was poor and this can result in excessive heat. You have to spread the male bullet for proper and tight connection.

If you do it the right way and with original xt150 your bullets will hold.
Most users solder bullets with soldering iron which I find far away from optimal and time consuming

The best way is to pre tin the wire with soldering wire.
Then you just use your torch lighter - heat up the bullet, put solder inside it. Heat up again and insert your silicone wire while you heat it up with the torch.
similar to this, but the guy did not pre tin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clwAV3YH9PA
Last edited by Allex on Sep 19 2018 3:21am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Cowardlyduck » Sep 19 2018 3:18am

Yeah what Allex said. When I said heat the crap out of it above, I did not mean with a soldering iron...that's just silly. Definitely use a good, powerful butane torch.
Pre-tinning is also a good idea, but you can 'tin' with the bullet itself if your careful. i.e. fill the cup, melt the solder, stick the wire in while heating and let it suck in all the solder. Then refill the cup and repeat so the now 'tinned' wire melts to the cup solder.
This method allow's you to do the join without a soldering iron at all, which is handy if your doing it to a controller/wheel still on the bike.
Also be careful how quickly you insert the wire into the cup. You have to go slow to avoid spilling the molten solder out the sides. If it does spill you won't be able to get the connector cover on and should just start again, although there are a few tricks for cleaning them up also.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

The stuff I make and modify.

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Merlin   100 kW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Merlin » Sep 19 2018 5:43am

simply wrap kapton tape around the plug before you start and you have never to deal with "cleaning/grinding" your connectors again.
no matter how much jizz flying around :mrgreen:

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by madin88 » Sep 19 2018 6:09am

The 10AWG phase wires are way to thin for a controller which can do 300A + phase amps. Thats the main problem.

What is the cross section of the wires from your motor?
If there is written Amass on the plastic holder of your XT150 then they should be genuine.
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Altair » Sep 19 2018 7:22am

You can also get 8mm bullet connectors. They are larger, shorter, and don't have plastic housings, so you need to insulate them with heat shrink tubing. However, I don't know if they are any good, or even better than the Amass XT150.

As for soldering, the best way I found is to pre-tin the connector but leave it empty of solder.
Then I pre-tin the wire, bring it into the connector while it is hot, and add solder re-melt the connector and to fill the voids. That way, no solder will overflow the cup.
By preparing your parts separately like this, you ensure that you have a perfect coverage of solder on all metal surfaces, and also that you have a perfect intermetallic fusion between the metal and the solder.

Another thing I want to mention, is that when you're tinning your parts, the most important thing is that it is the part itself that is supposed to melt your solder, not your soldering iron! Always have your part hot enough before you apply solder. That way, when the solder melts, the flux is released and it can do its chemical work of removing oxydation on the surface of the metal.
Never try to bring a blob of solder to your part with your soldering iron tip, because the flux will already be burned off and the solder will not be able to fuse with the metal.

Last thing that comes to mind, when tinning wires, try to have your wire in a vertical position, solder end down, so the solder will not wick too far along the wire strands.
As solder is more resistive than either the wire or the connector, try to fill the cup with wire as much as possible.

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inedible   100 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by inedible » Sep 19 2018 10:20am

Yeah it appears these connectors are not genuine Amass brand. I've resoldered the phase wire and the controller works again. I've sprung the prongs on the male side of all my XT150 connectors just to ensure better contact. Before, I could take apart the connectors with one hand, they slid apart pretty easy. Now it takes some force to plug and unplug them. Hopefully it was bad contact within the connector causing the heat.

I've had pretty good results with an iron, tbh. I turn it up to 700 degrees and use a fat chisel tip. I stick the soldering iron tip into the cup of the connector, heating one side for about 5 seconds until the connector is hot enough I can melt solder by touching the opposite side of where the iron is. I pre-tin the wire with an excess of solder so it's almost dripping off the wire, fill the cup about half way, ensure the connector is really hot, then plunge the wire in and heat for another couple seconds to ensure the solder flows through the wire.

As for the wires being too thin, I fully agree. The mini and mid-e have 10AWG and the max has 8 if I recall correctly. The phase wires going to my motor are the ones the QS 205 V3 came with, which are pretty thin too. I think they're 10 or 12AWG, but I don't have the tools or motivation to try and upgrade them. It's also impossible to upgrade anything inside my controller. It was sealed well with silicone, so I ended up stripping a screw trying to open it, then I ended up using thermal epoxy to glue heatsinks to the sides and top. So, I've pretty much dug my grave here, I've got to live with these wires and I don't have much choice in the matter.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by inedible » Oct 01 2018 1:16pm

Alright, so I've tried out the password-protected firmware I found in this thread. It works, but it's very broken for some reason.

When I flash the password-protected version, the password works and I can't switch out of "eco" without entering the password. However, eco mode is completely broken, and I get no power at all when I apply the throttle.

I flashed back to the regular firmware, and eco mode now works, however the password options are still available in the menu, even though I've flashed both the controller and display back to the original firmware.

This got me curious, and I tried various combinations of flashing the pw protected firmware to either the display or the controller alone. What made me even more curious was the file size difference between the two versions: the password version being much smaller. I found when I flashed the pw firmware to the display but not the controller, the menu password worked, eco mode worked, but switching power profiles did not ask for a password.

Anyway, I'm at a stage now where I've flashed back to the original firmware, performed a reset, flashed again, and I still have the password options in the menu. I don't want to try and enable the password in this state, since this firmware should *not* support it.

Has anyone encountered anything like this? I'd really like to lock this into eco mode, both for legal reasons, but also so I can loan it to friends without them hurting themselves and destroying my bike. Right now I have the option of eco mode OR password, and I'm really not sure about why the firmware is stuck having password options. Ugh. I wish there was a way to contact adaptto. The russian forum is super dead, and I've tried sending emails to every adaptto address I've found, with no response.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Offroader » Oct 02 2018 7:36am

When you say password protected firmware, is that the unlocked firmware where you can raise the amps very high?

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inedible   100 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by inedible » Oct 02 2018 11:00am

Offroader wrote:
Oct 02 2018 7:36am
When you say password protected firmware, is that the unlocked firmware where you can raise the amps very high?
No, that's the "unlocked" firmware. The password-protected version requires you to enter a button combo in order to switch out of eco mode or to access the menus. I haven't found a password version that's unlocked.

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by Swe » Oct 04 2018 5:23am

No power in eco mode you say? On mine eco mode only works with PAS, and throttle only in normal and boost. Just as it should be...

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inedible   100 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by inedible » Oct 04 2018 2:34pm

Swe wrote:
Oct 04 2018 5:23am
No power in eco mode you say? On mine eco mode only works with PAS, and throttle only in normal and boost. Just as it should be...
That could be it. That might be a problem, since I don't have a PAS sensor.

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inedible   100 W

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by inedible » Oct 07 2018 7:45pm

Alright, so that's indeed the case. There are two versions of the password-protected firmware out there. One with PAS and no throttle, and one with both.

After spending far too long trying to track down this mythical throttle-and-password firmware, I realized in this zip file, "PSW protected profiles Firmware.zip", there's a folder called "unknown version". I've always been too afraid to try flashing this version, but curiosity finally got the best of me. Sure enough, this is the one where throttle works.

I tried looking through this thread and the other big adaptto thread on here, but I honestly have no idea where I found this. So, in case anyone needs it, here's a copy: https://u.teknik.io/8UDgU.zip It seems like both versions in here are RC9G4

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Re: Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

Post by bigbore » Oct 09 2018 1:59pm

Interesting!
So with this unknown type you have eco mode that works with throttle and to exit from eco mode you need to enter a password?

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