Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

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amigafan2003   1 kW

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Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by amigafan2003 » Jul 26 2014 4:31am

Hi all - I've got an EM3EV 6 FET IRFB4110 controller, and I understand there are pads on the board available for a PAS connection/function.

I have one of these in my bits drawer, so does anyone have any instructions on wiring up and enabling the PAS function on this controller?

Thanks in advance.

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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jul 26 2014 7:15am

Looks like a standard hall sensor ring , detects pedalling or not...there wont be any proportional control.

Do you have the magnetic ring that goes on the crank? if not then that is no use unless you can maek a ring and stick magnets to it that pass over the sensor.


As for wiring, the last kit I saw from paul used the standard Xie Chang/Infinieon boards...so search the forum here and there are old threads describing what the pads are to use to

The three wires from your device will be ground, 5 volt in, and signal out from the hall sensor.

ground..connect to any common ground ont he board
take 5 volt from any convenient spare 5 volt pad.

I think from memory, the output wire from your device goes to the pad labelled TA.

You will then need to adjust settings in XPD and re flash the controller to control how the PAS works...how many pulses it needs before startign to add power etc.

With a low power bike this method is OK, but for a high power setup, you will need to moderate the bike power via current limiting via a cycle analyst or three speed switch....otherwise, the bike will take off at full power as soon as PAS kicks in.

Paul does sell a PAS 'tamer' unit, that menas you do not use the TA pad on the board, but instead, the PAS tamer module intercepts the throttle signal and sends its own throtttle signal. depending on the PAS input. Not proportional in relation to pedal speed, but it does allow for 4 power settings.
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amigafan2003   1 kW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by amigafan2003 » Jul 26 2014 1:19pm

Yeah, I have the sensor ring as well.

Only running 650 watts peak so a simple on/off will be fine :-)

I enquired about Pauls PAS unit but it's only for 36v and I'm running 15s lipo.

Thanks for the advice - I'll open the controller up and take a nosey.

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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jul 26 2014 2:14pm

Voltage is no problem.
I run his unit on a 20 or 24 series bike.

I am in a field at the moment, but send me a PM to remind me and I'll send you the info of what you need to run it at higher voltages.
Basically a 3 pin voltage reg, or Zener and a couple of resistors.
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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jul 26 2014 3:11pm

Back home now..found the circuit.

run the pas from this

Voltage reg for PAS.png
Voltage reg for PAS.png (11.72 KiB) Viewed 821 times
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zeccato   1 mW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by zeccato » Jan 18 2019 1:08pm

NeilP wrote:
Jul 26 2014 7:15am
Looks like a standard hall sensor ring , ...........
Hi, did you discover the connection of the 3 wires of the pas? I have a similar pas, and controller eb3 12 fet em3ev ,.
Thank you when you reveal it,
the mystery continues here too ',
I looked everywhere = 0.
Full susp. folding 20 swxh r. (2011),. batt. 48v. 25A Life (2012), and 48 7,5A a123 (2018?). Controller programmable EB3 12 FET. Charger Balancer 14s: TP1430C. Mercury (rarely). Buzzer.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6dXxc9-lNW

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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jan 18 2019 1:17pm

Too long ago to remember
But any PAS with 3 wires will be basic
Voltage in. Probably 5 volts
Ground
Signal out
:) Only Irish coffee provides in a glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat :)

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by zeccato » Jan 18 2019 2:22pm

NeilP wrote:
Jan 18 2019 1:17pm
Too long ago to remember
But any PAS with 3 wires will be basic
Voltage in. Probably 5 volts
Ground
Signal out
Thanks, but it's still not enough,
one told me that if I'm wrong
I could do damage,
the socket of the controller where I should connect the 3 wires of the pas is this:
1 Battery Voltage Vcc-L (red
(I think it's battery indicator, my 48v., and I do not need to use it)
2 GND / Shunt + ve (black)
3 Shunt -ve / Shunt -ve (blue)
4 Shunt + ve / Shunt + ve (white)
5 Speed ​​Signal / HE (yellow)
6 Throttle signal / SLA. (green)

which wires do I connect pas (3wires) directly without the diplay without CA?
Attachments
IMG_20190117_134833.jpg
controller eb3 12 FET IRFB4110,(40A) Infineon Sensored, see the centrum connector
Full susp. folding 20 swxh r. (2011),. batt. 48v. 25A Life (2012), and 48 7,5A a123 (2018?). Controller programmable EB3 12 FET. Charger Balancer 14s: TP1430C. Mercury (rarely). Buzzer.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6dXxc9-lNW

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by amberwolf » Jan 19 2019 1:17am

As noted in your other thread, you CANNOT connect the pulse-type PAS directly to the 6-pin CA connector, and have it work as a normal PAS.

It will NOT work to run the bike like you want it to.

You will have to either use the CA or some other device to interpret the PAS pulses into a throttle signal.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how many times you ask the question, in how many threads, the answer will still be the same.

If you have no PAS connector on the controller, you would have to open up the controller and see if there are unused pads inside that are marked for it (unlikely), and wire up a connector to those pads.

Or you can try asking the controller manufacturer, since you said EM3EV does not have the info you need.


If you don't care how rough it runs, then if you hook up the PAS signal to the throttle input of the controller, then every pulse of the PAS will give you some amount of throttle, as long as it is not too high voltage for the controller's throttle input limit.

But if you happen to pause pedalling while the PAS is in a "high" state, you'll be "stuck" at throttle on, probably at or near full throttle.

I doubt that's the way you want it to work.

zeccato wrote:
Jan 18 2019 2:22pm
Thanks, but it's still not enough,
one told me that if I'm wrong
I could do damage,
the socket of the controller where I should connect the 3 wires of the pas is this:
1 Battery Voltage Vcc-L (red
(I think it's battery indicator, my 48v., and I do not need to use it)
2 GND / Shunt + ve (black)
3 Shunt -ve / Shunt -ve (blue)
4 Shunt + ve / Shunt + ve (white)
5 Speed ​​Signal / HE (yellow)
6 Throttle signal / SLA. (green)

which wires do I connect pas (3wires) directly without the diplay without CA?

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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jan 19 2019 2:24am

Exactly as Amberwolf says, you can’t connect it to the 6 pin CA connector
It can only be connected to the dedicated PAS connector.

If you don’t have one, as he says, there maybe a PAS pad on the board, but I’d guess that at your level of knowledge of this stuff, you have slim to zero chance of finding it unless labelled.

You can’t rely on ANY common colour codes for the wiring.
:) Only Irish coffee provides in a glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat :)

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by zeccato » Jan 19 2019 10:29am

t_id=1439772 wrote:
Jan 19 2019 1:17am
zeccato wrote:
Jan 18 2019 2:22pm
......................
2 GND /
3 Shunt -ve
4 Shunt + ve
5 Speed ​​Signal
6 Throttle signal
Thank you so much,

Em3ev said:
[ The PAS display/controller that we offer connects directly to the CA plug. It doesn’t connect to the throttle connector ].

I have one display (see photo) that looks identical, but not bought from them,
can I try to connect it with my magnets pas? without damaging the controller?

Em3ev always gave me information about the things I buy from him, but my display and pas is not his, so I did not have precise details.

The pas I could not use it, but I need it in case of control.
IMG_20190105_143015-1.jpg
my display
Full susp. folding 20 swxh r. (2011),. batt. 48v. 25A Life (2012), and 48 7,5A a123 (2018?). Controller programmable EB3 12 FET. Charger Balancer 14s: TP1430C. Mercury (rarely). Buzzer.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6dXxc9-lNW

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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jan 19 2019 10:40am

zeccato wrote:
Jan 18 2019 2:22pm
]Thanks, but it's still not enough,
one told me that if I'm wrong
I could do damage,
the socket of the controller where I should connect the 3 wires of the pas is this:
1 Battery Voltage Vcc-L (red
(I think it's battery indicator, my 48v., and I do not need to use it)
2 GND / Shunt + ve (black)
3 Shunt -ve / Shunt -ve (blue)
4 Shunt + ve / Shunt + ve (white)
5 Speed ​​Signal / HE (yellow)
6 Throttle signal / SLA. (green)

which wires do I connect pas (3wires) directly without the diplay without CA?

None , the PAS cannot be connected to the CA plug
:) Only Irish coffee provides in a glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat :)

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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jan 19 2019 10:43am

I f you want to open your controller and look, you might be lucky...

If it happens to be labelled PAS, then you'd need to solder a wire to that pad, and another from a 5 volt feed and another to ground




Get it wrong and you will of course risk screwing the controller
on that controller it was labelled TA

Screen Shot 2019-01-19 at 15.41.36.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-01-19 at 15.41.36.jpg (127.37 KiB) Viewed 188 times
:) Only Irish coffee provides in a glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat :)

zeccato   1 mW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by zeccato » Jan 21 2019 9:02am

NeilP wrote:
Jan 19 2019 10:43am
I f you want to open your controller and look, you might be lucky...

If it happens to be labelled PAS, then you'd need to solder a wire to that pad, and another from a 5 volt feed and another to ground




Get it wrong and you will of course risk screwing the controller
on that controller it was labelled TA


Screen Shot 2019-01-19 at 15.41.36.jpg
The following question is about pas connection without any display:

Is the TA as seen (foto) there, is it compatible with my pas (standart) with magnets?
If yes, tell me please: where to solder the 3 wires pas?

Will this work the USB software settings for the pas? because I would like the pas set at 30%.

Note: I programmed the controller to 11A 30, / 0.1, / I use it at 48v.
IMG_20190120_071052.jpg
My controller bought recently: ( 12 FET IRFB4110 EB3), and usb software to program it.
IMG_20190120_071644.jpg
My controller bought recently: ( 12 FET IRFB4110 EB3), and usb software to program it.
Attachments
IMG_20190120_072135-1.jpg
IMG_20190120_072135-1.jpg (25.48 KiB) Viewed 157 times
Full susp. folding 20 swxh r. (2011),. batt. 48v. 25A Life (2012), and 48 7,5A a123 (2018?). Controller programmable EB3 12 FET. Charger Balancer 14s: TP1430C. Mercury (rarely). Buzzer.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6dXxc9-lNW

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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jan 21 2019 10:02am

zeccato wrote:
Jan 21 2019 9:02am

The following question is about pas connection without any display:
Yes, I fully understand that


zeccato wrote:
Jan 21 2019 9:02am
Is the TA as seen (foto) there, is it compatible with my pas (standart) with magnets?
Absolutely no way I can say for sure..the only way is to try it and see and risk damaging something if wrong. It probably is OK will probably work, but I'd never guarantee it !



zeccato wrote:
Jan 21 2019 9:02am
If yes, tell me please: where to solder the 3 wires pas?
I already did
NeilP wrote:
Jul 26 2014 7:15am
The three wires from your device will be ground, 5 volt in, and signal out from the hall sensor.
ground..connect to any common ground on the board
take 5 volt from any convenient spare 5 volt pad.
So red to 5 volt pad
black to and pad
the remaining one to the TA pad, then cross your fingers and hope



zeccato wrote:
Jan 21 2019 9:02am

Will this work the USB software settings for the pas? because I would like the pas set at 30%.

Note: I programmed the controller to 11A 30, / 0.1, / I use it at 48v.IMG_20190120_071052.jpgIMG_20190120_071644.jpg
It might..no way to be sure without trying .





I'd say all of us on here have destroyed more than one controller by tinkering g/ doing something wrong..if you can't afford to blow it up . leave it alone...sorry..but you only learn by experience..and then the next time you do what you might have done before..it does not work because the manufacturer has changed something.
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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jan 21 2019 10:05am

I'd probably wire the PAS to these.
+5v red
GND 6 to black
TA to the other one
Screen Shot 2019-01-21 at 15.03.53.png
Screen Shot 2019-01-21 at 15.03.53.png (74.5 KiB) Viewed 152 times
:) Only Irish coffee provides in a glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat :)

zeccato   1 mW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by zeccato » Jan 21 2019 1:14pm

NeilP wrote:
Jan 21 2019 10:05am
I'd probably wire the PAS to these.
+5v red
GND 6 to black
TA to the other one
Screen Shot 2019-01-21 at 15.03.53.png
Thank You so much, especially NeilP,
it works, too with the USB software program.

Tomorrow I will solder the wires.
Full susp. folding 20 swxh r. (2011),. batt. 48v. 25A Life (2012), and 48 7,5A a123 (2018?). Controller programmable EB3 12 FET. Charger Balancer 14s: TP1430C. Mercury (rarely). Buzzer.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6dXxc9-lNW

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Re: Adding PAS to EM3EV controller

Post by NeilP » Jan 21 2019 1:32pm

We have all been in your situation , and have been helped in similar ways

Glad it is all working
:) Only Irish coffee provides in a glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat :)

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